As I have yet to meet FTM/MTF, to my knowledge, it’s not something I need to have a reaction to, positive or negative.

The Japanese sub cultures do have a better understanding of gender stereotypes and social roles. America, because people like to pretend we’re all equal, tend to have heavy reactions to the unknown. While not all sub cultures are radical or designed to bring down the mainstream, because the possibility is there, there is a natural emotional reaction on the part of the tribal members to reject the foreign. Because the foreign is also the dangerous.

The Gaystapo have not conquered fear of the unknown. If anything, their extreme tactics means they are the most cowardly of them all, even if they are fanatics the same as our own true believers and zealots.

I also appreciate Liberty Wolf’s very interesting posts.

However, I do not see how it is possible, physically or metaphyscially, to “be” a different gender than one’s body. I do see that is quite possible to feel that way.

However, my figures may be wrong. Those were the figures bandied about for some time and I guess it depends on who you ask. Here however are some stats from UCSF which are more recent I believe and hopefully have some accuracy. They state: —Worldwide estimates for transwomen are 1 in every 30,000 people. Transmen are estimated at 1 in every 100,000 people. (1, 2) However, these numbers are likely an underestimate because they only account for trans people diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder and/or people receiving services at gender clinics, which we know are not inclusive of all trans people. —

So possibly Dr. Bowers is correct. In my life, I know at least as many trans men as trans women but that might be because of my own subjective bias. Certainly, our numbers appear comparable though I stand corrected that there may in fact be more MTFs worldwide than FTMs. Maybe in my circles, there is parity due to where I live or who connects with me online and in person.

My impression is that there are many more male-to-female surgeries. A recent Wash. Post article quotes perhaps the most well-known U.S. surgeon who does sex-reassignment surgery on that:

“Marci Bowers, a transgender obstetrician and gynecologist in Burlingame, Calif., who performs the surgeries, said in an interview that she does about 200 per year herself, about three quarters of them male to female.”

Being “out” as transgender was also tied to steeper risk, the study showed: People who tell everyone that they are transgender or gender-nonconforming, or who said that other people could always or usually tell that they were transgender, were more likely to have attempted suicide. —

Also, the sad story of the Belgian trans guy who committed suicide had a mother who was cold and rejecting from the get- go of his life. Sad that he would choose to end his life but apparently, as Neo points out this points out a larger problem in Belgium. I read in that article that anorexics and depressives are also doing euthenasia. Shows how this should just never be allowed by the state. It is too easy for people to take that route if it is there for them and sanctioned. Chances are, if they had not had that route, they might have come around to find hope in their lives again.

The study above is telling though as it points out that family support is crucial to well-being of trans people as any other group of people. Having a kind and loving family helps to render a better life outcome. Also, the fact that trans people are happier and less suicidal if they generally don’t tell other people is interesting. Or if they can generally slip under the radar without people being able to tell they went through this gender transition process. Obviously, some are pushed to suicide buy social pressures as well. I tell people not to count on any great social understanding since it may not be forthcoming. But one has to cultivate real friends and inner strength and faith. And, learn to live life without other people’s general approval. Not an easy task, but one that many have to do, not just people like myself.

I have said more than I wanted already. I hope it shed some light.

I think there are roughly the same number of FTMs to MTFs. This was not always the case, but it has changed in the past thirty years or so. As for the genital surgery, often called “SRS” it is not the only permanent effect of medical transition. Yes, it is very permanent and a very important decision, but hormones in and of themselves will enable a genetic male to grow real breasts and some have grown quite a set (so to speak!) Of course, some supplement with surgery but more than a few are able to grow more than they would have dreamed possible – all on their own. It all depends on genetics and what is in a person’s DNA. Also, all trans women without question undergo permanent beard and body hair removal. Trans men will grow beards and acquire body hair as anyone who looks at the link of successful trans men will see. Again, DNA will play a tremendous part in how hairy (or not) anyone gets. There are a lot of changes that are not readily or reversible at all so all along you have to be ready for the fact that this is real and serious and something that will change your life forever. It is only suitable for those who are very, very motivated. For us, it is the most wonderful thing we could have imagined, aside from winning the lottery! ;0

Any way, many who get bottom surgery are quite happy but I advise people to make sure they know what they are getting. I would hope Jenner, since she is so very cautious, and has taken this long to really make her move, would continue that open eyed approach and that she does what is right for her.

I share your take on classic liberal (libertarian leaning) values Dennis. I would hope that some of these conservatives come around, and of course — there have always been some conservatives who are supportive. There are radical leftists, notably certain feminists – who are not. Sometimes with more information people are able to understand things they did not previously. But again, to me, classic liberalism frees people to make the choices they deem best for themselves, the much stories pursuit of happiness. Also as medical technology becomes more advanced, we all have more choices to improve our lives.

Asher – you are welcome. I don’t always comment on this topic but I am happy to if it sheds some light.

I tend towards the libertarian side as well.

As I see it, libertarians can be conservatives of liberals. I’m a conservative libertarian, but not an extreme libertarian compared to most. Sounds like you are in more or less the same place on the spectrum as I am.

I think some of the animus here towards transgendered people comes from the perception that many of them are trying to now push this state as perfectly normal and even laudable, and are also asking for the public to pay for surgery (in the military and in prison, for example). Also, teaching kids about it as a perfectly fine option, even very young kids.