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	Comments on: Looking back at the magic	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/21/looking-back-at-the-magic/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: blert		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/21/looking-back-at-the-magic/#comment-841336</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:46:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43691#comment-841336</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The mythos of the USN PT boat fleet is vast.

1) They were not considered an &#039;attack&#039; arm of the navy.

2) Their primary purpose was to liaise with the Polynesian locals - particularly for the purposes of IJN activities and the rescue of downed Allied pilots.

The latter role was their primary mission as far as the admirals were concerned. The number of pilots rescued by PT boats -- and submarines -- and sea planes, is, all in all, quite astonishing.

3) As for the politics: the PT boats were overrun with Ivy league officers from New England. Kennedy was far from unique.

The Navy brass was delighted to dump off head-strong, politically connected, junior officers into a role that kept them out of harms way. The intended routine was to stay entirely out of the way of IJN destroyers. 

(American torpedoes were problematic -- and normally set deep enough to scoot right underneath a Japanese destroyer -- all of them. From the very first, they were designed for deep draft vessels: battleships, cruisers, and freighters. The experts figured out that the MOST effective blast would be from below the keel. This would make (BB) belt armor irrelevant. The technical problem was that setting the depth too shallow ruined the scheme, but at a proper running depth, they&#039;d shoot underneath all destroyers. For obvious morale reasons, this latter detail was never made public. Adjusting the setting -- at sea -- in action -- WAY too touchy in first generation designs. (This was before digital logic, of course.) There wasn&#039;t even a provision for accessing the logic when at sea.)

4) The PT boat &#039;project&#039; kept New England (wooden) boat builders extremely happy. This also paid huge political dividends for the USN.

5) As for the Ivy League boys: they made for ideal liaison officers. They were certainly never slotted for higher commands.

The Navy never wanted PT boats to really mix it up with Japanese destroyers -- who out-classed them drastically.  (Some cheap shots from island shallows would do nicely, though.) Naturally, that&#039;s exactly the kind of action that attracted Ivy League talent!

Kennedy ends up rescuing his own crew -- instead of pilots.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The mythos of the USN PT boat fleet is vast.</p>
<p>1) They were not considered an &#8216;attack&#8217; arm of the navy.</p>
<p>2) Their primary purpose was to liaise with the Polynesian locals &#8211; particularly for the purposes of IJN activities and the rescue of downed Allied pilots.</p>
<p>The latter role was their primary mission as far as the admirals were concerned. The number of pilots rescued by PT boats &#8212; and submarines &#8212; and sea planes, is, all in all, quite astonishing.</p>
<p>3) As for the politics: the PT boats were overrun with Ivy league officers from New England. Kennedy was far from unique.</p>
<p>The Navy brass was delighted to dump off head-strong, politically connected, junior officers into a role that kept them out of harms way. The intended routine was to stay entirely out of the way of IJN destroyers. </p>
<p>(American torpedoes were problematic &#8212; and normally set deep enough to scoot right underneath a Japanese destroyer &#8212; all of them. From the very first, they were designed for deep draft vessels: battleships, cruisers, and freighters. The experts figured out that the MOST effective blast would be from below the keel. This would make (BB) belt armor irrelevant. The technical problem was that setting the depth too shallow ruined the scheme, but at a proper running depth, they&#8217;d shoot underneath all destroyers. For obvious morale reasons, this latter detail was never made public. Adjusting the setting &#8212; at sea &#8212; in action &#8212; WAY too touchy in first generation designs. (This was before digital logic, of course.) There wasn&#8217;t even a provision for accessing the logic when at sea.)</p>
<p>4) The PT boat &#8216;project&#8217; kept New England (wooden) boat builders extremely happy. This also paid huge political dividends for the USN.</p>
<p>5) As for the Ivy League boys: they made for ideal liaison officers. They were certainly never slotted for higher commands.</p>
<p>The Navy never wanted PT boats to really mix it up with Japanese destroyers &#8212; who out-classed them drastically.  (Some cheap shots from island shallows would do nicely, though.) Naturally, that&#8217;s exactly the kind of action that attracted Ivy League talent!</p>
<p>Kennedy ends up rescuing his own crew &#8212; instead of pilots.</p>
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		<title>
		By: RA		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/21/looking-back-at-the-magic/#comment-841315</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43691#comment-841315</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To be annoyingly literal, Camelot refers to a royal court with the handsome prince (king) and beautiful princess (queen) with all manner of wonderful things happening there, and flowing from there. But none of the JFK worship was, and I was born in 1945, worship as we see it with Obama.  Kennedy was supposed to be a terrific president who was good at presidenting as demonstrated by his results (YMMV).
Obama is just.....too wonderful for words and presidenting is practically beneath him, and even if things go wrong, it could not possibly be his fault because he&#039;s too wonderful for words.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be annoyingly literal, Camelot refers to a royal court with the handsome prince (king) and beautiful princess (queen) with all manner of wonderful things happening there, and flowing from there. But none of the JFK worship was, and I was born in 1945, worship as we see it with Obama.  Kennedy was supposed to be a terrific president who was good at presidenting as demonstrated by his results (YMMV).<br />
Obama is just&#8230;..too wonderful for words and presidenting is practically beneath him, and even if things go wrong, it could not possibly be his fault because he&#8217;s too wonderful for words.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hangtown Bob		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/21/looking-back-at-the-magic/#comment-841258</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hangtown Bob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2014 15:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43691#comment-841258</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Remember also.......  Kennedy was a &quot;war hero&quot;, memorialized in the story of PT109, its ramming by a Japanese destroyer and Kennedy&#039;s subsequent survival.  That he was also a relatively good-looking youthful WWII veteran (as compared to the older more fatherly prior President D. D. Eisenhower) did not hurt his popularity with the younger generation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember also&#8230;&#8230;.  Kennedy was a &#8220;war hero&#8221;, memorialized in the story of PT109, its ramming by a Japanese destroyer and Kennedy&#8217;s subsequent survival.  That he was also a relatively good-looking youthful WWII veteran (as compared to the older more fatherly prior President D. D. Eisenhower) did not hurt his popularity with the younger generation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mac		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/21/looking-back-at-the-magic/#comment-841247</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2014 14:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43691#comment-841247</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m very glad to hear you eluded the Clinton charm, Neo. He was/is indeed basically a B-S-er. I pegged him pretty quickly as a type I&#039;ve often encountered in the South: the smarmy and probably dishonest preacher. I think he bears more than a little resemblance to the Bible salesman in Flannery O&#039;Connor&#039;s &quot;Good Country People&quot;.

Of course there are many, many women who aren&#039;t susceptible to these guys, at least to the TV presence. My wife is one. She saw through both Clinton and Obama immediately.

I think we&#039;re about the same age, but I don&#039;t recall giving JFK a lot of thought one way or the other. At that age I hardly thought about politics and politicians at all.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m very glad to hear you eluded the Clinton charm, Neo. He was/is indeed basically a B-S-er. I pegged him pretty quickly as a type I&#8217;ve often encountered in the South: the smarmy and probably dishonest preacher. I think he bears more than a little resemblance to the Bible salesman in Flannery O&#8217;Connor&#8217;s &#8220;Good Country People&#8221;.</p>
<p>Of course there are many, many women who aren&#8217;t susceptible to these guys, at least to the TV presence. My wife is one. She saw through both Clinton and Obama immediately.</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;re about the same age, but I don&#8217;t recall giving JFK a lot of thought one way or the other. At that age I hardly thought about politics and politicians at all.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Charles		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/21/looking-back-at-the-magic/#comment-841212</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Charles]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2014 12:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43691#comment-841212</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Blert &#038; Neo; not only is Obama less of a people person than Obama; But, Nixon was LOYAL to his people.

As we all know, the same cannot be said about Obama.  He will throw anyone and everyone under the bus.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blert &amp; Neo; not only is Obama less of a people person than Obama; But, Nixon was LOYAL to his people.</p>
<p>As we all know, the same cannot be said about Obama.  He will throw anyone and everyone under the bus.</p>
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		<title>
		By: southpaw		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/21/looking-back-at-the-magic/#comment-841206</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[southpaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2014 11:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43691#comment-841206</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The OBama phenomenon provides some insight into the psyches of men and women who are otherwise &quot;intelligent&quot; that can be sucked into worshipping a charlatan or cult leader.  Seems to be human nature for many people to believe there are men among us who have supernatural abilities, who see and know things about the universe and ourselves the rest of us cannot.  Those people probably lack the cynic&#039;s gene. 
 In another system where it was possible, it would surely tempt Obama to use the power these fools relenquish to him for his own interests.   
 Oh never mind...I keep forgetting our system isn&#039;t as good as we thought]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The OBama phenomenon provides some insight into the psyches of men and women who are otherwise &#8220;intelligent&#8221; that can be sucked into worshipping a charlatan or cult leader.  Seems to be human nature for many people to believe there are men among us who have supernatural abilities, who see and know things about the universe and ourselves the rest of us cannot.  Those people probably lack the cynic&#8217;s gene.<br />
 In another system where it was possible, it would surely tempt Obama to use the power these fools relenquish to him for his own interests.<br />
 Oh never mind&#8230;I keep forgetting our system isn&#8217;t as good as we thought</p>
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		By: Matt_SE		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/21/looking-back-at-the-magic/#comment-841166</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt_SE]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2014 05:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43691#comment-841166</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The worshippers are filling a deep hole within themselves. What sad, little people. What multitudes.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The worshippers are filling a deep hole within themselves. What sad, little people. What multitudes.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/21/looking-back-at-the-magic/#comment-841159</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2014 04:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43691#comment-841159</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[blert:

Nixon was also not a people person.  But he was more of a people person than Obama, although he didn&#039;t have much of a facade.  Obama has a better facade than Nixon.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>blert:</p>
<p>Nixon was also not a people person.  But he was more of a people person than Obama, although he didn&#8217;t have much of a facade.  Obama has a better facade than Nixon.</p>
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		<title>
		By: blert		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/21/looking-back-at-the-magic/#comment-841156</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2014 04:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43691#comment-841156</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[JFK was in so many ways the anti-0bama:

He was largely unscripted. In some of the footage it&#039;s obvious that he used 3x5 cards -- just a few -- and then largely winged it.

He had a very quick wit, too.

Kennedy held more informal &#039;pressers&#039; than any prior president. At the time he was accused of running the presidency from a microphone. He averaged about one presser per week. (!) 

These could happen anywhere and at any time. Kennedy would simply wander over to the press pool and start chatting them up.

By doing so, Kennedy made many junior players into national names. Yes, they loved him for it. Most of their queries were &#039;softballs.&#039;

No other president has ever attempted to equal that style. 

LBJ and RMN really &#039;took the candy away&#039; -- Vietnam-centric questions ruined the media chemistry.

It&#039;s now almost entirely forgotten: JFK got America involved in Vietnam. Ike thought the French (ex)colony was as toxic as Algeria... or the French project to get the Suez canal back. 

[ Paris talked London and Tel Aviv into the 1956 Sinai campaign. As Israel&#039;s primary source for defense manufactures, France had a lot of clout. Most of these dirty dealings have been held back -- and highly classified. It has taken fifty-years to get the records opened. All Cold War era accounts are now known to be tripe, for all official sources were lying their heads off. ]

[ Ike had learned during WWII: don&#039;t get in bed with the French. Their domestic politics are a total mess. As the Czechs could tell you: they are totally unreliable allies. It was France, not Chamberlain, that dictated the Munich deal. She was the only player with an army of consequence. The British army was a joke -- compared to the continental powers. ]

So JFK plunges into Vietnam -- with an excessive diplomatic investment -- not having learned the Truman lessons of Korea. 

LBJ&#039;s tapes clearly show that he was so dense that he didn&#039;t know how to turn around and back out of Kennedy&#039;s diplomacy.

Yet, by the end, the Press had transformed Vietnam into Nixon&#039;s war. (!) The truth being that Nixon started backing out of Vietnam from day one.

It&#039;s now forgotten, but at the time, Kennedy was CONSTANTLY on the hot seat. His performance was SO INFERIOR to that of Ike, even the Press were shocked.

&#038;&#038;&#038;&#038;

As I&#039;ve posted: Barry has a magnetic arrogance. Most women pick up on his vibe -- and assume that he MUST have the goods to back up his strut. But he doesn&#039;t.

He has one other tick most unusual in a politician: he&#039;s not a people person. He shuts out most people -- to include his own crew.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JFK was in so many ways the anti-0bama:</p>
<p>He was largely unscripted. In some of the footage it&#8217;s obvious that he used 3&#215;5 cards &#8212; just a few &#8212; and then largely winged it.</p>
<p>He had a very quick wit, too.</p>
<p>Kennedy held more informal &#8216;pressers&#8217; than any prior president. At the time he was accused of running the presidency from a microphone. He averaged about one presser per week. (!) </p>
<p>These could happen anywhere and at any time. Kennedy would simply wander over to the press pool and start chatting them up.</p>
<p>By doing so, Kennedy made many junior players into national names. Yes, they loved him for it. Most of their queries were &#8216;softballs.&#8217;</p>
<p>No other president has ever attempted to equal that style. </p>
<p>LBJ and RMN really &#8216;took the candy away&#8217; &#8212; Vietnam-centric questions ruined the media chemistry.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s now almost entirely forgotten: JFK got America involved in Vietnam. Ike thought the French (ex)colony was as toxic as Algeria&#8230; or the French project to get the Suez canal back. </p>
<p>[ Paris talked London and Tel Aviv into the 1956 Sinai campaign. As Israel&#8217;s primary source for defense manufactures, France had a lot of clout. Most of these dirty dealings have been held back &#8212; and highly classified. It has taken fifty-years to get the records opened. All Cold War era accounts are now known to be tripe, for all official sources were lying their heads off. ]</p>
<p>[ Ike had learned during WWII: don&#8217;t get in bed with the French. Their domestic politics are a total mess. As the Czechs could tell you: they are totally unreliable allies. It was France, not Chamberlain, that dictated the Munich deal. She was the only player with an army of consequence. The British army was a joke &#8212; compared to the continental powers. ]</p>
<p>So JFK plunges into Vietnam &#8212; with an excessive diplomatic investment &#8212; not having learned the Truman lessons of Korea. </p>
<p>LBJ&#8217;s tapes clearly show that he was so dense that he didn&#8217;t know how to turn around and back out of Kennedy&#8217;s diplomacy.</p>
<p>Yet, by the end, the Press had transformed Vietnam into Nixon&#8217;s war. (!) The truth being that Nixon started backing out of Vietnam from day one.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s now forgotten, but at the time, Kennedy was CONSTANTLY on the hot seat. His performance was SO INFERIOR to that of Ike, even the Press were shocked.</p>
<p>&amp;&amp;&amp;&amp;</p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve posted: Barry has a magnetic arrogance. Most women pick up on his vibe &#8212; and assume that he MUST have the goods to back up his strut. But he doesn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>He has one other tick most unusual in a politician: he&#8217;s not a people person. He shuts out most people &#8212; to include his own crew.</p>
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		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/21/looking-back-at-the-magic/#comment-841146</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2014 03:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43691#comment-841146</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mac:

The only political figure I&#039;ve ever felt that way about was JFK, and only somewhat, and I was basically a &lt;i&gt;child&lt;/i&gt;.  I&#039;ve definitely had crushes on actors and writers and even the Beatles, but not politicians.  Although I was a Democrat in the Clinton years and I thought Clinton rather attractive, I was basically immune to his charms even then.  I thought his speeches were trite and long, and he was basically a BS-er.

I did meet him once, and had a short conversation.  But he seemed distracted (and he was; it was during the Lewinsky thing).  He didn&#039;t look well.

I&#039;ve also met Romney and Scott Brown, both of whom I think are very attractive.  I certainly don&#039;t idolize or idealize either, though.  With JFK, there was a sense of excitement; that&#039;s what I remember.  During the 1960 campaign he gave a speech in a public place where I lived, and I wanted to go and hear him, but my parents nixed it, saying I could see him some other time.  Well, that other time never came.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mac:</p>
<p>The only political figure I&#8217;ve ever felt that way about was JFK, and only somewhat, and I was basically a <i>child</i>.  I&#8217;ve definitely had crushes on actors and writers and even the Beatles, but not politicians.  Although I was a Democrat in the Clinton years and I thought Clinton rather attractive, I was basically immune to his charms even then.  I thought his speeches were trite and long, and he was basically a BS-er.</p>
<p>I did meet him once, and had a short conversation.  But he seemed distracted (and he was; it was during the Lewinsky thing).  He didn&#8217;t look well.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also met Romney and Scott Brown, both of whom I think are very attractive.  I certainly don&#8217;t idolize or idealize either, though.  With JFK, there was a sense of excitement; that&#8217;s what I remember.  During the 1960 campaign he gave a speech in a public place where I lived, and I wanted to go and hear him, but my parents nixed it, saying I could see him some other time.  Well, that other time never came.</p>
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