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	Comments on: Spain: it was the nurse&#8217;s fault	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/10/spain-it-was-the-nurses-fault/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Nife		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/10/spain-it-was-the-nurses-fault/#comment-841181</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nife]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2014 07:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43351#comment-841181</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am from Spain. Yes, we have a socialized health system here, and although there are some aspects to it that I do not like, the fact is that it is a very good health system. We do have problems to finance it, as everywhere I guess. We have one of the highest life expentancies in the world and one of the lowest child mortality rates. There have been some failings in the way ebola has been managed but as this was a new challenge it was to be expected to some extent I guess. But the problems have been smoothed out quickly and we now have a scientific comitee that is in charge of things and it seems to be working out very well. The party in government is the Peoples&#039; Party, a centre-conservative party, and it is doing a decent job managing the countries&#039; finances etc., which has some merit taken into account the country was in a desperate situation when they won the elections in 2012, after 8 years of Socialist Party in government!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am from Spain. Yes, we have a socialized health system here, and although there are some aspects to it that I do not like, the fact is that it is a very good health system. We do have problems to finance it, as everywhere I guess. We have one of the highest life expentancies in the world and one of the lowest child mortality rates. There have been some failings in the way ebola has been managed but as this was a new challenge it was to be expected to some extent I guess. But the problems have been smoothed out quickly and we now have a scientific comitee that is in charge of things and it seems to be working out very well. The party in government is the Peoples&#8217; Party, a centre-conservative party, and it is doing a decent job managing the countries&#8217; finances etc., which has some merit taken into account the country was in a desperate situation when they won the elections in 2012, after 8 years of Socialist Party in government!</p>
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		<title>
		By: ebola &#124; exposure &#124; Dallas &#124; Spain &#124; protocol		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/10/spain-it-was-the-nurses-fault/#comment-838508</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ebola &#124; exposure &#124; Dallas &#124; Spain &#124; protocol]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2014 15:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43351#comment-838508</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Spain, a nurse&#8217;s assistant who caught the disease had treated a Spanish priest who&#8217;d been transferred to the hospital from Africa in the later [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Spain, a nurse&#8217;s assistant who caught the disease had treated a Spanish priest who&#8217;d been transferred to the hospital from Africa in the later [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: G Joubert		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/10/spain-it-was-the-nurses-fault/#comment-837534</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[G Joubert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2014 04:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43351#comment-837534</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It doesn&#039;t matter whether you are at the care delivery point or in the upper echelons of a critical care organization,  physicians  --medical doctors--  run the show.  The physician group lead the administrators and spokespersons, not the other way around.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter whether you are at the care delivery point or in the upper echelons of a critical care organization,  physicians  &#8211;medical doctors&#8211;  run the show.  The physician group lead the administrators and spokespersons, not the other way around.</p>
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		<title>
		By: parker		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/10/spain-it-was-the-nurses-fault/#comment-837434</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[parker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2014 00:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43351#comment-837434</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hazmat gear is uncomfortable in the best of circumstances and in equitorial Africa it is beyond my imagination to appreciate how miserable it is to work under the conditions faced by aid workers. They must feel a bit of sympathy with lobsters tossed into the boiling pot. However, there should be not even the slightest deviation from procedures, assuming there are actual procedures beyond nebulous guidelines. As Lurch stated, and I agreed, this is not a test. It is the real deal and so far even societies with advanced medical systems are falling short of their mandate to protect their citizens. PC is the 5th horseman.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hazmat gear is uncomfortable in the best of circumstances and in equitorial Africa it is beyond my imagination to appreciate how miserable it is to work under the conditions faced by aid workers. They must feel a bit of sympathy with lobsters tossed into the boiling pot. However, there should be not even the slightest deviation from procedures, assuming there are actual procedures beyond nebulous guidelines. As Lurch stated, and I agreed, this is not a test. It is the real deal and so far even societies with advanced medical systems are falling short of their mandate to protect their citizens. PC is the 5th horseman.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/10/spain-it-was-the-nurses-fault/#comment-837429</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 23:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43351#comment-837429</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Don Carlos:

I think most people here are well aware that our information on these incidents is quite incomplete.  It almost goes without saying---but I am careful to add in many posts and comments of mine disclaimers such as &quot;if this information is correct.&quot;  It think it&#039;s obvious the information we have may not just be incorrect, but is very incomplete.

After all, if Duncan&#039;s medical history at the Dallas hospital ran to over 1000 pages, we know very little of it.  But what we know is not the least bit reassuring.

I wonder why you keep acting as though you&#039;re the only person who can think of things that are actually rather obvious.  I missed where people here were saying &quot;Our information on this is now complete.&quot;

I agree with you, however, that we should be very concerned about the administrators and the government re ebola and its treatment.  They have hardly covered themselves with glory---au contraire.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don Carlos:</p>
<p>I think most people here are well aware that our information on these incidents is quite incomplete.  It almost goes without saying&#8212;but I am careful to add in many posts and comments of mine disclaimers such as &#8220;if this information is correct.&#8221;  It think it&#8217;s obvious the information we have may not just be incorrect, but is very incomplete.</p>
<p>After all, if Duncan&#8217;s medical history at the Dallas hospital ran to over 1000 pages, we know very little of it.  But what we know is not the least bit reassuring.</p>
<p>I wonder why you keep acting as though you&#8217;re the only person who can think of things that are actually rather obvious.  I missed where people here were saying &#8220;Our information on this is now complete.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree with you, however, that we should be very concerned about the administrators and the government re ebola and its treatment.  They have hardly covered themselves with glory&#8212;au contraire.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/10/spain-it-was-the-nurses-fault/#comment-837427</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 23:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43351#comment-837427</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[parker:

I just meant that if the gear is too cumbersome, the worker can&#039;t work at all.  At some point, that would happen.  The trick is to get just to that point, but stop short of it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>parker:</p>
<p>I just meant that if the gear is too cumbersome, the worker can&#8217;t work at all.  At some point, that would happen.  The trick is to get just to that point, but stop short of it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: parker		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/10/spain-it-was-the-nurses-fault/#comment-837417</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[parker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 23:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43351#comment-837417</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[neo,

While it is true that protocols/procedures can not be 100% effective due to human fallibility, the idea that safety must be sacrificed because of &quot;cumbersome&quot; protective gear is the wrong way to go. If anything, sacrificing  &#039;the work&#039; to protect the worker is paramount. Who decons the reactor if the decon team is contaminated?  Who treats the patients if the caregivers die from the disease? Its not as if there is an endless supply of trained people to decon the reactor or treat the diseased patients.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>neo,</p>
<p>While it is true that protocols/procedures can not be 100% effective due to human fallibility, the idea that safety must be sacrificed because of &#8220;cumbersome&#8221; protective gear is the wrong way to go. If anything, sacrificing  &#8216;the work&#8217; to protect the worker is paramount. Who decons the reactor if the decon team is contaminated?  Who treats the patients if the caregivers die from the disease? Its not as if there is an endless supply of trained people to decon the reactor or treat the diseased patients.</p>
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		<title>
		By: parker		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/10/spain-it-was-the-nurses-fault/#comment-837413</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[parker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 23:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43351#comment-837413</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ann,

Guidelines are not procedures.  Guidelines are a foundation. Procedures are the minutiae of each tiny step to maximize safety. Guidelines will protect no one, rigorously following procedures will; not 100% but perhaps 98 %.  Treating ebola patients under guidelines is not good enough. For example, the procedures I followed for removing gloves contaminated with radioactive material involved 4 steps and the use of 2 other pairs of sterile gloves. With a few exceptions monitoring for radioactivity is a quick and simple process. This is not true when a virus or bacteria are involved. Which means the sop for enbola requires extremely detailed procedures.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ann,</p>
<p>Guidelines are not procedures.  Guidelines are a foundation. Procedures are the minutiae of each tiny step to maximize safety. Guidelines will protect no one, rigorously following procedures will; not 100% but perhaps 98 %.  Treating ebola patients under guidelines is not good enough. For example, the procedures I followed for removing gloves contaminated with radioactive material involved 4 steps and the use of 2 other pairs of sterile gloves. With a few exceptions monitoring for radioactivity is a quick and simple process. This is not true when a virus or bacteria are involved. Which means the sop for enbola requires extremely detailed procedures.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Don Carlos		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/10/spain-it-was-the-nurses-fault/#comment-837383</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don Carlos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 22:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43351#comment-837383</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Dallas problem is the hospital ADMINISTRATORS and SPOKESMEN, and perhaps its general counsel. They run their mouths in grossly irresponsible fashion. First, and never denied, is the ER nurse did her/his job, but it was the doc&#039;s fault. Then, oops, it was the EHR software&#039;s fault. Now, oops oops, he had a pretty high fever (103F).

Finding someone to blame in this case is akin to blaming the Ferguson cop the first night and going on a tear. No one here admits the obvious: We do not know 99% of the evidence. How many of you know an abdominal CT scan was done? What did it show? What were his blood counts? His serum chemistries? Even if we knew, the results would have to be explained to you. Etc, etc, etc.
 Perhaps we should all temper our righteous indignation. Our government and authorities worry me a great deal more than finding blame re Duncan. Or are we trial lawyers in front of a jury?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Dallas problem is the hospital ADMINISTRATORS and SPOKESMEN, and perhaps its general counsel. They run their mouths in grossly irresponsible fashion. First, and never denied, is the ER nurse did her/his job, but it was the doc&#8217;s fault. Then, oops, it was the EHR software&#8217;s fault. Now, oops oops, he had a pretty high fever (103F).</p>
<p>Finding someone to blame in this case is akin to blaming the Ferguson cop the first night and going on a tear. No one here admits the obvious: We do not know 99% of the evidence. How many of you know an abdominal CT scan was done? What did it show? What were his blood counts? His serum chemistries? Even if we knew, the results would have to be explained to you. Etc, etc, etc.<br />
 Perhaps we should all temper our righteous indignation. Our government and authorities worry me a great deal more than finding blame re Duncan. Or are we trial lawyers in front of a jury?</p>
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		<title>
		By: G Joubert		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/10/10/spain-it-was-the-nurses-fault/#comment-837355</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[G Joubert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2014 21:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=43351#comment-837355</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[They blamed the nurse in Dallas too.  It&#039;s a recurring theme among doctors, always blame the nearest available nurse.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They blamed the nurse in Dallas too.  It&#8217;s a recurring theme among doctors, always blame the nearest available nurse.</p>
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