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	Comments on: We won&#8217;t be solving the Fermi Paradox any time soon	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/07/14/we-wont-be-solving-the-fermi-paradox-any-time-soon/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 20:17:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Bob From Virginia		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/07/14/we-wont-be-solving-the-fermi-paradox-any-time-soon/#comment-803473</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob From Virginia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 20:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=40894#comment-803473</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Great, something else to worry about.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great, something else to worry about.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/07/14/we-wont-be-solving-the-fermi-paradox-any-time-soon/#comment-803461</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 19:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=40894#comment-803461</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Quantum entanglement teleportation gates, tachyon teleportation, sound a lot more convenient.

Generally, a civilization needs a certain level of refinement and engineering capabilities before they can take advantage of theoretical breakthroughs or mathematical proofs. It takes awhile to figure out how to build things that work, based on scientific experiments.

It would help to get near room temperature superconductors, since losing energy is a big problem in a civilization that still refuses to use nuclear energy for much of anything.

Why would a civilization that can use a higher output of energy, not do it? Why would people who can FTL travel to Earth, not do so? Obviously it&#039;s either an external or internal motivation problem.

However, until humans solve our own &quot;communications&quot; problem concerning, say American life and culture, there&#039;s little hope of the species advancing any time this century.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quantum entanglement teleportation gates, tachyon teleportation, sound a lot more convenient.</p>
<p>Generally, a civilization needs a certain level of refinement and engineering capabilities before they can take advantage of theoretical breakthroughs or mathematical proofs. It takes awhile to figure out how to build things that work, based on scientific experiments.</p>
<p>It would help to get near room temperature superconductors, since losing energy is a big problem in a civilization that still refuses to use nuclear energy for much of anything.</p>
<p>Why would a civilization that can use a higher output of energy, not do it? Why would people who can FTL travel to Earth, not do so? Obviously it&#8217;s either an external or internal motivation problem.</p>
<p>However, until humans solve our own &#8220;communications&#8221; problem concerning, say American life and culture, there&#8217;s little hope of the species advancing any time this century.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/07/14/we-wont-be-solving-the-fermi-paradox-any-time-soon/#comment-803431</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 18:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=40894#comment-803431</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[davisbr:

No need to apologize.  Sounds interesting.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>davisbr:</p>
<p>No need to apologize.  Sounds interesting.</p>
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		<title>
		By: davisbr		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/07/14/we-wont-be-solving-the-fermi-paradox-any-time-soon/#comment-803417</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[davisbr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 17:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=40894#comment-803417</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think ...that some of you didn&#039;t read nearly as much &quot;hard&quot; sci-fi when you were kids as you should have, to be able to participate lucidly even in this kind of water-cooler level discussion LOL. (Yes, of course I&#039;m a sci-fi snob, so I would ...i.e., &quot;think that&quot;.)

...I recommend you start with Niven, Pournelle, and Niven &#038; Pournelle collaborations.

Specifically &lt;b&gt;Ringworld&lt;/b&gt;. And then the &lt;b&gt;Mote in God&#039;s Eye&lt;/b&gt;.

I haven&#039;t posted to my [private] blog in a couple of years - which is mostly online notes to myself about stuff-that-matters-to-me-that-I-might-need-to-refer-to-someday-but-would-probably-be-too-lazy-to-look-up-when-I-needed-it lol - but the first two posts on the site cover SETI stuff (which links to articles that are still current ...not much is happening in SETI btw), and warp drives.

Link to &lt;a href=&quot;http://fairwhether.mee.nu&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;fairwhether.mee.nu&lt;/a&gt; for click-through.

...they&#039;re a basic consolidation of the subject matter, and might help bring some of you up-to-speed.

(Sorry neo, I don&#039;t ever recall pointing to &quot;me&quot;, because I&#039;m a dull boy, and a seldom blogger, and think self-linking in comments is impolite-bordering-on-outright-rude ...but I&#039;m just-this-once breaking protocol.)

I think we&#039;re going to get the Alcubierre drive (which does NOT break General Relativity, a very big deal ...and which is why it makes a &quot;kind of&quot; FTL a possibility) btw. There&#039;s been recent papers - out of Denmark, if I recall correctly (I need to update that post with links) - that suggest the energy required for the warp bubble is MUCH less than Miguel Alcubierre (and others) originally postulated.

...and that&#039;s &lt;i&gt;certainly&lt;/i&gt; my Star Trek half speaking, heh.

For the creation vs. big bang philosophical/theological arg&#039;s, you should definitely read CS Lewis&#039;s &quot;Miracles&quot; ...which is less about &quot;miracles&quot;, and more about a kind of philosophy of a &quot;science of the supernatural&quot; (spoiler alert: he&#039;s for it LOL) ...which isn&#039;t theosophy lol.

(Sorry, but it&#039;s been decades since I last thought much about this ...my mind&#039;s been made up for a long time lol ...so no snap quizzes!)

...sorry for coming off all pedantic &#038; snooty. But this was one of those &quot;too much misinfo&#039;&quot; threads.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think &#8230;that some of you didn&#8217;t read nearly as much &#8220;hard&#8221; sci-fi when you were kids as you should have, to be able to participate lucidly even in this kind of water-cooler level discussion LOL. (Yes, of course I&#8217;m a sci-fi snob, so I would &#8230;i.e., &#8220;think that&#8221;.)</p>
<p>&#8230;I recommend you start with Niven, Pournelle, and Niven &amp; Pournelle collaborations.</p>
<p>Specifically <b>Ringworld</b>. And then the <b>Mote in God&#8217;s Eye</b>.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t posted to my [private] blog in a couple of years &#8211; which is mostly online notes to myself about stuff-that-matters-to-me-that-I-might-need-to-refer-to-someday-but-would-probably-be-too-lazy-to-look-up-when-I-needed-it lol &#8211; but the first two posts on the site cover SETI stuff (which links to articles that are still current &#8230;not much is happening in SETI btw), and warp drives.</p>
<p>Link to <a href="http://fairwhether.mee.nu" rel="nofollow">fairwhether.mee.nu</a> for click-through.</p>
<p>&#8230;they&#8217;re a basic consolidation of the subject matter, and might help bring some of you up-to-speed.</p>
<p>(Sorry neo, I don&#8217;t ever recall pointing to &#8220;me&#8221;, because I&#8217;m a dull boy, and a seldom blogger, and think self-linking in comments is impolite-bordering-on-outright-rude &#8230;but I&#8217;m just-this-once breaking protocol.)</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;re going to get the Alcubierre drive (which does NOT break General Relativity, a very big deal &#8230;and which is why it makes a &#8220;kind of&#8221; FTL a possibility) btw. There&#8217;s been recent papers &#8211; out of Denmark, if I recall correctly (I need to update that post with links) &#8211; that suggest the energy required for the warp bubble is MUCH less than Miguel Alcubierre (and others) originally postulated.</p>
<p>&#8230;and that&#8217;s <i>certainly</i> my Star Trek half speaking, heh.</p>
<p>For the creation vs. big bang philosophical/theological arg&#8217;s, you should definitely read CS Lewis&#8217;s &#8220;Miracles&#8221; &#8230;which is less about &#8220;miracles&#8221;, and more about a kind of philosophy of a &#8220;science of the supernatural&#8221; (spoiler alert: he&#8217;s for it LOL) &#8230;which isn&#8217;t theosophy lol.</p>
<p>(Sorry, but it&#8217;s been decades since I last thought much about this &#8230;my mind&#8217;s been made up for a long time lol &#8230;so no snap quizzes!)</p>
<p>&#8230;sorry for coming off all pedantic &amp; snooty. But this was one of those &#8220;too much misinfo'&#8221; threads.</p>
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		<title>
		By: T		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/07/14/we-wont-be-solving-the-fermi-paradox-any-time-soon/#comment-803382</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 15:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=40894#comment-803382</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot; . . . the actual job is different than what they wrote on the paper.&quot;

As Yogi Berra said:  &quot;In theory there&#039;s no difference between theory and practice.  In practice, there is.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; . . . the actual job is different than what they wrote on the paper.&#8221;</p>
<p>As Yogi Berra said:  &#8220;In theory there&#8217;s no difference between theory and practice.  In practice, there is.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/07/14/we-wont-be-solving-the-fermi-paradox-any-time-soon/#comment-803360</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 13:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=40894#comment-803360</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;I find it rather presumptuous that our Creator and the act of creation should make sense to us.&lt;/b&gt;

Which is why DC thinks he knows better than the rest of us, where the motor controls of the human brain are located, obviously.


That&#039;s not being presumptuous of course. That&#039;s just being Damn Crazy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>I find it rather presumptuous that our Creator and the act of creation should make sense to us.</b></p>
<p>Which is why DC thinks he knows better than the rest of us, where the motor controls of the human brain are located, obviously.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not being presumptuous of course. That&#8217;s just being Damn Crazy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/07/14/we-wont-be-solving-the-fermi-paradox-any-time-soon/#comment-803358</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 13:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=40894#comment-803358</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;but note.. throwing a rock from where you are is EASIER than actually building a ship, and putting pepple on it, and then having food, air, and so on, and going the distance to get here to throw rocks!!!&lt;/b&gt;

Dropping bombs on people from automated drones is easier, but without ground forces to confirm who died, the target may still be living. So in order to get guarantees, one must saturate the system, which costs time and money. Whereas if they had an observer in the system, they can see the damage and then stop operations.

The reality of actually &quot;engineering&quot; things is beyond some people, I presume. What you read off your books, Art, may look good on paper, but somebody always has to do the actual job. And the actual job is different than what they wrote on the paper.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>but note.. throwing a rock from where you are is EASIER than actually building a ship, and putting pepple on it, and then having food, air, and so on, and going the distance to get here to throw rocks!!!</b></p>
<p>Dropping bombs on people from automated drones is easier, but without ground forces to confirm who died, the target may still be living. So in order to get guarantees, one must saturate the system, which costs time and money. Whereas if they had an observer in the system, they can see the damage and then stop operations.</p>
<p>The reality of actually &#8220;engineering&#8221; things is beyond some people, I presume. What you read off your books, Art, may look good on paper, but somebody always has to do the actual job. And the actual job is different than what they wrote on the paper.</p>
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		<title>
		By: M of Hollywood		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/07/14/we-wont-be-solving-the-fermi-paradox-any-time-soon/#comment-803346</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M of Hollywood]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 13:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=40894#comment-803346</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Beverly:  thank you for the Wordsworth, so aptly named was he
to speak of memory
that calls us forward
to find the curve of infinity
and blast those &quot;obstinate questionings&quot;
in our &quot;noisy years&quot;
to follow the curve back
to eternal silence]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beverly:  thank you for the Wordsworth, so aptly named was he<br />
to speak of memory<br />
that calls us forward<br />
to find the curve of infinity<br />
and blast those &#8220;obstinate questionings&#8221;<br />
in our &#8220;noisy years&#8221;<br />
to follow the curve back<br />
to eternal silence</p>
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		<title>
		By: Beverly		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/07/14/we-wont-be-solving-the-fermi-paradox-any-time-soon/#comment-803202</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Beverly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 03:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=40894#comment-803202</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt; –But there’s a tree, of many, one,
A single field which I have looked upon,
Both of them speak of something that is gone:
          The pansy at my feet
          Doth the same tale repeat:
Whither is fled the visionary gleam?
Where is it now, the glory and the dream?
 
Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting:
The Soul that rises with us, our life’s Star,
        Hath had elsewhere its setting,
          And cometh from afar:
        Not in entire forgetfulness,
        And not in utter nakedness,
But trailing clouds of glory do we come
        From God, who is our home:
Heaven lies about us in our infancy!
Shades of the prison-house begin to close
        Upon the growing Boy,
But he beholds the light, and whence it flows,
        He sees it in his joy;
The Youth, who daily farther from the east
    Must travel, still is Nature’s priest,
      And by the vision splendid
      Is on his way attended;
At length the Man perceives it die away,
And fade into the light of common day.

...    But for those obstinate questionings
    Of sense and outward things,
    Fallings from us, vanishings;
    Blank misgivings of a Creature
Moving about in worlds not realized,
High instincts before which our mortal Nature
Did tremble like a guilty thing surprised:
        But for those first affections,
        Those shadowy recollections,
      Which, be they what they may,
Are yet the fountain-light of all our day,
Are yet a master-light of all our seeing;
  Uphold us, cherish, and have power to make
Our noisy years seem moments in the being
Of the eternal Silence: truths that wake,
            To perish never:...

Hence in a season of calm weather
        Though inland far we be,
Our souls have sight of that immortal sea
        Which brought us hither,
    Can in a moment travel thither,
And see the children sport upon the shore,
And hear the mighty waters rolling evermore.

...Another race hath been, and other palms are won.
Thanks to the human heart by which we live,
Thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears,
To me the meanest flower that blows can give
Thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears.&lt;/i&gt;

--William Wordsworth, &quot;Intimations of Immortality from Recollections of Early Childhood&quot; (1802)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> –But there’s a tree, of many, one,<br />
A single field which I have looked upon,<br />
Both of them speak of something that is gone:<br />
          The pansy at my feet<br />
          Doth the same tale repeat:<br />
Whither is fled the visionary gleam?<br />
Where is it now, the glory and the dream?</p>
<p>Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting:<br />
The Soul that rises with us, our life’s Star,<br />
        Hath had elsewhere its setting,<br />
          And cometh from afar:<br />
        Not in entire forgetfulness,<br />
        And not in utter nakedness,<br />
But trailing clouds of glory do we come<br />
        From God, who is our home:<br />
Heaven lies about us in our infancy!<br />
Shades of the prison-house begin to close<br />
        Upon the growing Boy,<br />
But he beholds the light, and whence it flows,<br />
        He sees it in his joy;<br />
The Youth, who daily farther from the east<br />
    Must travel, still is Nature’s priest,<br />
      And by the vision splendid<br />
      Is on his way attended;<br />
At length the Man perceives it die away,<br />
And fade into the light of common day.</p>
<p>&#8230;    But for those obstinate questionings<br />
    Of sense and outward things,<br />
    Fallings from us, vanishings;<br />
    Blank misgivings of a Creature<br />
Moving about in worlds not realized,<br />
High instincts before which our mortal Nature<br />
Did tremble like a guilty thing surprised:<br />
        But for those first affections,<br />
        Those shadowy recollections,<br />
      Which, be they what they may,<br />
Are yet the fountain-light of all our day,<br />
Are yet a master-light of all our seeing;<br />
  Uphold us, cherish, and have power to make<br />
Our noisy years seem moments in the being<br />
Of the eternal Silence: truths that wake,<br />
            To perish never:&#8230;</p>
<p>Hence in a season of calm weather<br />
        Though inland far we be,<br />
Our souls have sight of that immortal sea<br />
        Which brought us hither,<br />
    Can in a moment travel thither,<br />
And see the children sport upon the shore,<br />
And hear the mighty waters rolling evermore.</p>
<p>&#8230;Another race hath been, and other palms are won.<br />
Thanks to the human heart by which we live,<br />
Thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears,<br />
To me the meanest flower that blows can give<br />
Thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears.</i></p>
<p>&#8211;William Wordsworth, &#8220;Intimations of Immortality from Recollections of Early Childhood&#8221; (1802)</p>
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		<title>
		By: T		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/07/14/we-wont-be-solving-the-fermi-paradox-any-time-soon/#comment-803194</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 03:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=40894#comment-803194</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ed Bonderenka,

Apparently even &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; doesn&#039;t cut it anymore.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed Bonderenka,</p>
<p>Apparently even <i>that</i> doesn&#8217;t cut it anymore.</p>
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