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	Comments on: Eric Holder, persecuted martyr	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://thenewneo.com/2014/04/11/eric-holder-persecuted-martyr/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/04/11/eric-holder-persecuted-martyr/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/04/11/eric-holder-persecuted-martyr/#comment-758198</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2014 22:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=38007#comment-758198</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mike, 

My understanding is that Godwin was simply making an observation. The fallacy was imputed by others.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, </p>
<p>My understanding is that Godwin was simply making an observation. The fallacy was imputed by others.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/04/11/eric-holder-persecuted-martyr/#comment-758051</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2014 12:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=38007#comment-758051</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Godwin probably intended it for LEftists, since they would be the ones that would most likely call fascism as a way to suppress the masses.

So using Godwin as a way for the Left to win against us, is perhaps ironic.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Godwin probably intended it for LEftists, since they would be the ones that would most likely call fascism as a way to suppress the masses.</p>
<p>So using Godwin as a way for the Left to win against us, is perhaps ironic.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/04/11/eric-holder-persecuted-martyr/#comment-758047</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2014 11:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=38007#comment-758047</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Eric,

It&#039;s called a false analogy. It says &quot;Hitler was bad. X is like Hitler. Therefore X is bad like Hitler.&quot;

It&#039;s only a fallacy if it&#039;s not true. Godwin was a jackass.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s called a false analogy. It says &#8220;Hitler was bad. X is like Hitler. Therefore X is bad like Hitler.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s only a fallacy if it&#8217;s not true. Godwin was a jackass.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/04/11/eric-holder-persecuted-martyr/#comment-757866</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2014 22:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=38007#comment-757866</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jenk: &quot;At the risk of being “Godwined”&quot; 

Godwin was just describing a usenet debate phenomenon, but its popular application, as I understand it, is a version of the logical fallacy that:  

Hitler is evil. Hitler is fond of children. That guy is fond of children. That guy is evil. Or, Hitler is evil. Hitler is fond of children. Being fond of children is evil. 

It&#039;s the logical fallacy that some folks apply to activism: The Left is bad. The Left uses activism. Activism is bad.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jenk: &#8220;At the risk of being “Godwined”&#8221; </p>
<p>Godwin was just describing a usenet debate phenomenon, but its popular application, as I understand it, is a version of the logical fallacy that:  </p>
<p>Hitler is evil. Hitler is fond of children. That guy is fond of children. That guy is evil. Or, Hitler is evil. Hitler is fond of children. Being fond of children is evil. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s the logical fallacy that some folks apply to activism: The Left is bad. The Left uses activism. Activism is bad.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/04/11/eric-holder-persecuted-martyr/#comment-757840</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2014 21:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=38007#comment-757840</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Most people have not been educated on Rhetoric. So they can&#039;t tell one Rhetorical Style from another.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most people have not been educated on Rhetoric. So they can&#8217;t tell one Rhetorical Style from another.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jenk		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/04/11/eric-holder-persecuted-martyr/#comment-757823</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jenk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2014 20:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=38007#comment-757823</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[At the risk of being &quot;Godwined&quot; Hitler&#039;s speaking style was copied in large part from Mussolini, right up to the point of practicing gestures and facial expressions in front of a mirror.

King&#039;s speaking cadence was different, in that he spoke in a manner common to Black Southern preachers, a cadence designed to elicit a &quot;call and response&quot; reaction from the congregation.  At points King may have moderated that cadence as he probably understood that a national audience would not respond in the same way as a Black church congregation, but in the end he was what he was and spoke accordingly.  For him to have adopted a Hitleresque speaking style would not have worked, either for his congregation or the nation as a whole; it would have been alien....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the risk of being &#8220;Godwined&#8221; Hitler&#8217;s speaking style was copied in large part from Mussolini, right up to the point of practicing gestures and facial expressions in front of a mirror.</p>
<p>King&#8217;s speaking cadence was different, in that he spoke in a manner common to Black Southern preachers, a cadence designed to elicit a &#8220;call and response&#8221; reaction from the congregation.  At points King may have moderated that cadence as he probably understood that a national audience would not respond in the same way as a Black church congregation, but in the end he was what he was and spoke accordingly.  For him to have adopted a Hitleresque speaking style would not have worked, either for his congregation or the nation as a whole; it would have been alien&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: NeoConScum		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/04/11/eric-holder-persecuted-martyr/#comment-757792</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NeoConScum]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2014 19:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=38007#comment-757792</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I wonder, sometimes, IF Colin Powell is privately feeling any remorse, regret, guilt. You know, for supporting this cheap race hustling Alinskyite Lefty? What was it that Powell called him some years back..?  Oh, yes, &quot;Transformational&quot;!!

Come on Mr.National Security Advisor to President Reagan, Chief of the Joint Chiefs under Bush-41 and Sec&#039;y of State under Bush-43... ANY SHAME felt in your gut these days,&#039;Yo?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder, sometimes, IF Colin Powell is privately feeling any remorse, regret, guilt. You know, for supporting this cheap race hustling Alinskyite Lefty? What was it that Powell called him some years back..?  Oh, yes, &#8220;Transformational&#8221;!!</p>
<p>Come on Mr.National Security Advisor to President Reagan, Chief of the Joint Chiefs under Bush-41 and Sec&#8217;y of State under Bush-43&#8230; ANY SHAME felt in your gut these days,&#8217;Yo?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/04/11/eric-holder-persecuted-martyr/#comment-757788</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2014 19:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=38007#comment-757788</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[* Anyone CAN USE ACTIVISM to reify any cause.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>* Anyone CAN USE ACTIVISM to reify any cause.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/04/11/eric-holder-persecuted-martyr/#comment-757786</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2014 18:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=38007#comment-757786</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Beverly,

Indeed, the Left&#039;s and Hitler&#039;s activist skillsets match up closely.

Activism is just a method, a workshop of tools. Anyone cause it to reify any cause. Either use activism to normalize your good cause, or opt not to use activism and allow activism to be used by your competition to normalize their bad cause.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beverly,</p>
<p>Indeed, the Left&#8217;s and Hitler&#8217;s activist skillsets match up closely.</p>
<p>Activism is just a method, a workshop of tools. Anyone cause it to reify any cause. Either use activism to normalize your good cause, or opt not to use activism and allow activism to be used by your competition to normalize their bad cause.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2014/04/11/eric-holder-persecuted-martyr/#comment-757781</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2014 18:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=38007#comment-757781</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Add: MLK and Malcolm X, as contemporaries, were not opponents. King simply drew a line at &lt;i&gt;physical&lt;/i&gt; violence in his activism.

MLK aggressively used propaganda that was incitant and adversarial. In other words, activism &quot;by any means necessary&quot; (X) vs &quot;use any means of legitimate nonviolent protest necessary&quot; (MLK).

Indeed, the majority of the Left&#039;s winning activism is not &lt;i&gt;physically&lt;/i&gt; violent. War is just politics by other means, after all. Whether the means are violent or non-violent, activism is about competing to impose one&#039;s preferred norms and marginalize/stigmatize alternative norms. There can be only one.

To understand him as an activist, note that in his 1st-stage activism, MLK did not condemn the violence that characterized the concurrent black separatist movement. Like Ghandi&#039;s activism, MLK was not dogmatically pacifist. He understood the utility of political violence. He just believed that non-violent activism was more effective for his social movement. 

When speaking to white Americans in his 1st-stage activism, MLK shrewdly wove in the implied threat of violent black unrest as the dangerous alternative to King&#039;s social movement, which he framed as the benign alternative that would placate the justified anger of black Americans. 

To wit, MLK, &quot;I Have a Dream&quot;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. There will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights.

 The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Of course, as MLK learned within days of the passage of the 1965 Voting Rights Act at the 1965 Watts riots, the event that triggered his 2nd-stage activism, his benign alternative wasn&#039;t enough.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Add: MLK and Malcolm X, as contemporaries, were not opponents. King simply drew a line at <i>physical</i> violence in his activism.</p>
<p>MLK aggressively used propaganda that was incitant and adversarial. In other words, activism &#8220;by any means necessary&#8221; (X) vs &#8220;use any means of legitimate nonviolent protest necessary&#8221; (MLK).</p>
<p>Indeed, the majority of the Left&#8217;s winning activism is not <i>physically</i> violent. War is just politics by other means, after all. Whether the means are violent or non-violent, activism is about competing to impose one&#8217;s preferred norms and marginalize/stigmatize alternative norms. There can be only one.</p>
<p>To understand him as an activist, note that in his 1st-stage activism, MLK did not condemn the violence that characterized the concurrent black separatist movement. Like Ghandi&#8217;s activism, MLK was not dogmatically pacifist. He understood the utility of political violence. He just believed that non-violent activism was more effective for his social movement. </p>
<p>When speaking to white Americans in his 1st-stage activism, MLK shrewdly wove in the implied threat of violent black unrest as the dangerous alternative to King&#8217;s social movement, which he framed as the benign alternative that would placate the justified anger of black Americans. </p>
<p>To wit, MLK, &#8220;I Have a Dream&#8221;:</p>
<blockquote><p>Those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. There will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights.</p>
<p> The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges.</p></blockquote>
<p>Of course, as MLK learned within days of the passage of the 1965 Voting Rights Act at the 1965 Watts riots, the event that triggered his 2nd-stage activism, his benign alternative wasn&#8217;t enough.</p>
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