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	Comments on: So, what&#8217;s going on now with the Republicans, the shutdown, and the debt limit?	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/10/10/so-whats-going-on-now-with-the-republicans-the-shutdown-and-the-debt-limit/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 11 Oct 2013 17:19:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Paul in Boston		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/10/10/so-whats-going-on-now-with-the-republicans-the-shutdown-and-the-debt-limit/#comment-670724</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul in Boston]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Oct 2013 17:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=32477#comment-670724</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There is precedent for repealing a piece of social welfare.  I remember this because there were near riots of the elderly attacking Dan Rostenkowski at the time.  There are going to be a lot more people than just the seniors angry this time.  Or as Senator Phil Gramm said at the time of HillaryCare, &quot;If this thing passes, they&#039;re going to be hunting Democrats in the streets like rabid dogs.&quot;

&quot;Medicare Catastrophic Coverage Act of 1988, Public Law. 100-360 (July 1, 1988). The 1988 Catastrophic Act focused on providing protection against catastrophic medical expenses under Medicare. Specifically, the Act expanded the Medicare program to provide protection against catastrophic medical expenses and for the first time, provided coverage under the Medicare program for prescription drugs. To pay for these benefit expansions, a new supplemental premium tax on all persons eligible for Medicare was enacted. After massive protests by seniors, the law was essentially repealed the next year.&quot;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rostenkowski]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is precedent for repealing a piece of social welfare.  I remember this because there were near riots of the elderly attacking Dan Rostenkowski at the time.  There are going to be a lot more people than just the seniors angry this time.  Or as Senator Phil Gramm said at the time of HillaryCare, &#8220;If this thing passes, they&#8217;re going to be hunting Democrats in the streets like rabid dogs.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Medicare Catastrophic Coverage Act of 1988, Public Law. 100-360 (July 1, 1988). The 1988 Catastrophic Act focused on providing protection against catastrophic medical expenses under Medicare. Specifically, the Act expanded the Medicare program to provide protection against catastrophic medical expenses and for the first time, provided coverage under the Medicare program for prescription drugs. To pay for these benefit expansions, a new supplemental premium tax on all persons eligible for Medicare was enacted. After massive protests by seniors, the law was essentially repealed the next year.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rostenkowski" rel="nofollow ugc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rostenkowski</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: sharpie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/10/10/so-whats-going-on-now-with-the-republicans-the-shutdown-and-the-debt-limit/#comment-670651</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sharpie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Oct 2013 15:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=32477#comment-670651</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s hard to strategize when basic propositions are in doubt. For instance: 

Everyone wants to prevent a complete economic meltdown before 2014.

Seems very reasonable, but the informed person knows there are consequences due to hiding the debt problem with printed money. Obamacare has already lowered family income. The question is when will the boom drop?

Obama will facilatate the crisis when he believes he can blame Republicans for it. He&#039;s spent all his time as President blaming Republicans and building that narrative. 

And RINOs are terrified. They believe in his power and they reinforce his power by acting guilty. What I would like to ask them is, &quot;When do they think they are going to turn the tide?&quot; If they can&#039;t do it with the facts of the Obama administration, then when?

But here&#039;s a question. When is it right for a politician to facilitate destruction upon America for political power? Or as a preemptive measure?

And how do you measure destruction? Destruction of government is what? Good or bad? When is that question asked? In a time of crisis when people look to the government? 

I can&#039;t answer those questions in a general way. But there are some principles that do guide me. The first is that theft of property (socialism) is wrong and leads to tyranny and misery. And Obamacare and the debt is theft now and in the future. 

Theft demands an immediate response. You oppose the violation of unalterable truths always. If you haven&#039;t in the past, then now is the time to begin. Because it doesn&#039;t really matter if you pick the best time. The best time is always now and my argument for that is religious more than rational. Sin begets sin whether on a personal or national level. 

For those who place rationalism on top, they must wade through the quagmire of strategy. In my view, only to arrive, in the end, with the same conclusion.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s hard to strategize when basic propositions are in doubt. For instance: </p>
<p>Everyone wants to prevent a complete economic meltdown before 2014.</p>
<p>Seems very reasonable, but the informed person knows there are consequences due to hiding the debt problem with printed money. Obamacare has already lowered family income. The question is when will the boom drop?</p>
<p>Obama will facilatate the crisis when he believes he can blame Republicans for it. He&#8217;s spent all his time as President blaming Republicans and building that narrative. </p>
<p>And RINOs are terrified. They believe in his power and they reinforce his power by acting guilty. What I would like to ask them is, &#8220;When do they think they are going to turn the tide?&#8221; If they can&#8217;t do it with the facts of the Obama administration, then when?</p>
<p>But here&#8217;s a question. When is it right for a politician to facilitate destruction upon America for political power? Or as a preemptive measure?</p>
<p>And how do you measure destruction? Destruction of government is what? Good or bad? When is that question asked? In a time of crisis when people look to the government? </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t answer those questions in a general way. But there are some principles that do guide me. The first is that theft of property (socialism) is wrong and leads to tyranny and misery. And Obamacare and the debt is theft now and in the future. </p>
<p>Theft demands an immediate response. You oppose the violation of unalterable truths always. If you haven&#8217;t in the past, then now is the time to begin. Because it doesn&#8217;t really matter if you pick the best time. The best time is always now and my argument for that is religious more than rational. Sin begets sin whether on a personal or national level. </p>
<p>For those who place rationalism on top, they must wade through the quagmire of strategy. In my view, only to arrive, in the end, with the same conclusion.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Matt_SE		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/10/10/so-whats-going-on-now-with-the-republicans-the-shutdown-and-the-debt-limit/#comment-670626</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt_SE]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Oct 2013 14:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=32477#comment-670626</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@southpaw
&lt;b&gt;Just Like every issue they oppose or support, they will lose the propaganda war&lt;/b&gt;
But they&#039;re not losing, per se. They are going down in the polls, but so it Obama. In fact, it&#039;s not too surprising to me that Rs are dropping but I wasn&#039;t sure I&#039;d ever see Obama this low. He always seemed to have a floor of 40%.
Shutdown theater is backfiring on Obama and the Senate Democrats. The NPS antics are really turning off a lot of people.
And so far, the &quot;reasonable moderates&quot; aren&#039;t retreating &lt;i&gt;en masse&lt;/i&gt;. There was a brief tantrum from Peter King (I hate him) and followers, but that...petered out.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@southpaw<br />
<b>Just Like every issue they oppose or support, they will lose the propaganda war</b><br />
But they&#8217;re not losing, per se. They are going down in the polls, but so it Obama. In fact, it&#8217;s not too surprising to me that Rs are dropping but I wasn&#8217;t sure I&#8217;d ever see Obama this low. He always seemed to have a floor of 40%.<br />
Shutdown theater is backfiring on Obama and the Senate Democrats. The NPS antics are really turning off a lot of people.<br />
And so far, the &#8220;reasonable moderates&#8221; aren&#8217;t retreating <i>en masse</i>. There was a brief tantrum from Peter King (I hate him) and followers, but that&#8230;petered out.</p>
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		<title>
		By: southpaw		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/10/10/so-whats-going-on-now-with-the-republicans-the-shutdown-and-the-debt-limit/#comment-670614</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[southpaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Oct 2013 13:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=32477#comment-670614</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neo- I never believed the republicans would actually succeed in defunding, however the idea that it would be rejected because it was so bad is just not realistic.
 You only need to look at this battle and every other that the republicans have waged since Obamas election, to know the outcome.  All the blame for all the implementation problems would put on the republicans obstructing the process. Just   Like every issue they oppose or support, they will lose the propaganda war and end up supporting it to rescue their own political careers.  Even as a ruling majority, the political pressure would be on them to do something to fix the mess.  Repealing it would be just as chaotic at this point; many businesses have been preparing and others have sprung up to take advantage of the program; the government has hired thousands of people to implement it- no matter what the truth is, there would be an endless parade of people victimized by thinking they were finally going to have health care, only to have the hopes dashed by heartless republicans. 
 One by one, &quot;reasonable, moderate&quot; republicans who are not in safe districts would break ranks with the repeal crowd, if it even got off the ground.  
 Nothing in the republican play book since Reagan suggests they could, or would do anything that would be controversial or bring the media down on their heads.
 Even with all 3 branches of government under republican control, they would not have the fortitude to dismantle it. They would try to fix it- and no matter what they did to do so would be characterized as bad, until they compromised enough of their &quot; fixes&quot; to make it an even bigger mess. 
  If they do get into power again, they won&#039;t risk any actions that threaten to end it.  You don&#039;t need to look any further than the way they handle themselves now, in order to determine what they will do while in power.  They&#039;re still the same inarticulate bunch - who cannot control the impulse to prove they are moderate and compassionate by advancing social spending programs, to silence their critics and to stay in office.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo- I never believed the republicans would actually succeed in defunding, however the idea that it would be rejected because it was so bad is just not realistic.<br />
 You only need to look at this battle and every other that the republicans have waged since Obamas election, to know the outcome.  All the blame for all the implementation problems would put on the republicans obstructing the process. Just   Like every issue they oppose or support, they will lose the propaganda war and end up supporting it to rescue their own political careers.  Even as a ruling majority, the political pressure would be on them to do something to fix the mess.  Repealing it would be just as chaotic at this point; many businesses have been preparing and others have sprung up to take advantage of the program; the government has hired thousands of people to implement it- no matter what the truth is, there would be an endless parade of people victimized by thinking they were finally going to have health care, only to have the hopes dashed by heartless republicans.<br />
 One by one, &#8220;reasonable, moderate&#8221; republicans who are not in safe districts would break ranks with the repeal crowd, if it even got off the ground.<br />
 Nothing in the republican play book since Reagan suggests they could, or would do anything that would be controversial or bring the media down on their heads.<br />
 Even with all 3 branches of government under republican control, they would not have the fortitude to dismantle it. They would try to fix it- and no matter what they did to do so would be characterized as bad, until they compromised enough of their &#8221; fixes&#8221; to make it an even bigger mess.<br />
  If they do get into power again, they won&#8217;t risk any actions that threaten to end it.  You don&#8217;t need to look any further than the way they handle themselves now, in order to determine what they will do while in power.  They&#8217;re still the same inarticulate bunch &#8211; who cannot control the impulse to prove they are moderate and compassionate by advancing social spending programs, to silence their critics and to stay in office.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/10/10/so-whats-going-on-now-with-the-republicans-the-shutdown-and-the-debt-limit/#comment-670254</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Oct 2013 02:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=32477#comment-670254</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;but someone like you woud then say, they dont have that. &lt;/b&gt;

Besides the issue of whether I think they do or don&#039;t, what do you think it means if they do have them?

Do you expect 250million Americans to be put in there, or do you think only 5-50m Americans will be?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>but someone like you woud then say, they dont have that. </b></p>
<p>Besides the issue of whether I think they do or don&#8217;t, what do you think it means if they do have them?</p>
<p>Do you expect 250million Americans to be put in there, or do you think only 5-50m Americans will be?</p>
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		<title>
		By: West		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/10/10/so-whats-going-on-now-with-the-republicans-the-shutdown-and-the-debt-limit/#comment-670237</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[West]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Oct 2013 02:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=32477#comment-670237</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The poorly executed rollout of the Obamacare web portals, while expected, will have little to do with the public&#039;s dissatisfaction with the law. The one thing that will change minds is having to pony up cash - and there is a not unsignificant minority who actually thought that the tsunami would not get them wet. Once they have to start shelling out thousands of dollars that they were not before, they become instant Republicans. That&#039;s probably about 90% of the self-employed people in the US.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The poorly executed rollout of the Obamacare web portals, while expected, will have little to do with the public&#8217;s dissatisfaction with the law. The one thing that will change minds is having to pony up cash &#8211; and there is a not unsignificant minority who actually thought that the tsunami would not get them wet. Once they have to start shelling out thousands of dollars that they were not before, they become instant Republicans. That&#8217;s probably about 90% of the self-employed people in the US.</p>
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		<title>
		By: blert		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/10/10/so-whats-going-on-now-with-the-republicans-the-shutdown-and-the-debt-limit/#comment-670220</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Oct 2013 01:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=32477#comment-670220</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Barry&#039;s intent is to drive the discomfort upon the &#039;Republican class.&#039;

However, his artillery is hitting LIV Democrat voters, who&#039;d not been following politics at all.

Major patrons of K Street are being cut off from the spigot, if temporarily.

The Speaker is trying to keep the Continuing Resolution in the public eye. 

Having 0bamacare stumbling out of the gate is of perfect timing to have Barry give one-year exemptions for another 48 states.

Barry is ultimately going to cave because his baby is not yet ready to be born.

It&#039;s a massively regressive tax increase -- destined to tank the economy just in time for 2014.

The effects would be global, Smoot-Hawley on steroids. 

And in larger news: the Middle East is now fulsomely involved in ummah-wide civil war. 

Getting our boys out of the atomic cross-fire between the Sunni and Shia is not a bad idea.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry&#8217;s intent is to drive the discomfort upon the &#8216;Republican class.&#8217;</p>
<p>However, his artillery is hitting LIV Democrat voters, who&#8217;d not been following politics at all.</p>
<p>Major patrons of K Street are being cut off from the spigot, if temporarily.</p>
<p>The Speaker is trying to keep the Continuing Resolution in the public eye. </p>
<p>Having 0bamacare stumbling out of the gate is of perfect timing to have Barry give one-year exemptions for another 48 states.</p>
<p>Barry is ultimately going to cave because his baby is not yet ready to be born.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a massively regressive tax increase &#8212; destined to tank the economy just in time for 2014.</p>
<p>The effects would be global, Smoot-Hawley on steroids. </p>
<p>And in larger news: the Middle East is now fulsomely involved in ummah-wide civil war. </p>
<p>Getting our boys out of the atomic cross-fire between the Sunni and Shia is not a bad idea.</p>
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		<title>
		By: rickl		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/10/10/so-whats-going-on-now-with-the-republicans-the-shutdown-and-the-debt-limit/#comment-670195</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rickl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Oct 2013 00:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=32477#comment-670195</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Excellent post at Ace&#039;s today:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://minx.cc/?post=344066&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Obama&#039;s Empircal Rationalist Patriots Settle on New Talking Point: People Who Disagree With Our Profligate Spending are &quot;Economic Traitors&quot;&lt;/a&gt;

People who are opposed to deficit spending and Obamacare are &quot;economic traitors&quot;.

Art will know what that means.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post at Ace&#8217;s today:</p>
<p><a href="http://minx.cc/?post=344066" rel="nofollow">Obama&#8217;s Empircal Rationalist Patriots Settle on New Talking Point: People Who Disagree With Our Profligate Spending are &#8220;Economic Traitors&#8221;</a></p>
<p>People who are opposed to deficit spending and Obamacare are &#8220;economic traitors&#8221;.</p>
<p>Art will know what that means.</p>
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		<title>
		By: rickl		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/10/10/so-whats-going-on-now-with-the-republicans-the-shutdown-and-the-debt-limit/#comment-670192</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rickl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Oct 2013 00:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=32477#comment-670192</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Matt_SE Says: 
October 10th, 2013 at 8:18 pm
&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;Most of the pain we’re experiencing is self-inflicted. We’ve gotten so used to everything being “certified” by the government that it seems dangerous without it.

Bullshit.

There’s nothing at all stopping this guy from opening a microbrewery…other than the threat of retaliation when the government reopens.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ayn Rand called it &quot;The Sanction of the Victim&quot;.

We &lt;i&gt;allow&lt;/i&gt; the government to have entirely illegitimate power over us.  Why the hell does anybody need government &quot;permission&quot; to start a business?  The truth is, we &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/i&gt;, if we assert ourselves.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt_SE Says:<br />
October 10th, 2013 at 8:18 pm</p>
<blockquote cite=""><p>Most of the pain we’re experiencing is self-inflicted. We’ve gotten so used to everything being “certified” by the government that it seems dangerous without it.</p>
<p>Bullshit.</p>
<p>There’s nothing at all stopping this guy from opening a microbrewery…other than the threat of retaliation when the government reopens.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ayn Rand called it &#8220;The Sanction of the Victim&#8221;.</p>
<p>We <i>allow</i> the government to have entirely illegitimate power over us.  Why the hell does anybody need government &#8220;permission&#8221; to start a business?  The truth is, we <i>don&#8217;t</i>, if we assert ourselves.</p>
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		By: Matt_SE		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/10/10/so-whats-going-on-now-with-the-republicans-the-shutdown-and-the-debt-limit/#comment-670175</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt_SE]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Oct 2013 00:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=32477#comment-670175</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I was watching Fox, and some microbrewer was complaining that gov&#039;t shutdown was endangering his business because gov&#039;t couldn&#039;t approve his license. Then it hit me:

Most of the pain we&#039;re experiencing is self-inflicted. We&#039;ve gotten so used to everything being &quot;certified&quot; by the government that it seems dangerous without it.
Bullshit.
There&#039;s nothing at all stopping this guy from opening a microbrewery...other than the threat of retaliation when the government reopens.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was watching Fox, and some microbrewer was complaining that gov&#8217;t shutdown was endangering his business because gov&#8217;t couldn&#8217;t approve his license. Then it hit me:</p>
<p>Most of the pain we&#8217;re experiencing is self-inflicted. We&#8217;ve gotten so used to everything being &#8220;certified&#8221; by the government that it seems dangerous without it.<br />
Bullshit.<br />
There&#8217;s nothing at all stopping this guy from opening a microbrewery&#8230;other than the threat of retaliation when the government reopens.</p>
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