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	Comments on: Why telegraph an attack on Syria?	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/08/28/why-telegraph-an-attack-on-syria/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Obama &#124; Syria &#124; Hamlet &#124; To be or not to be		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/08/28/why-telegraph-an-attack-on-syria/#comment-647732</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Obama &#124; Syria &#124; Hamlet &#124; To be or not to be]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Aug 2013 22:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=31136#comment-647732</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Syria, it seems Obama&#8217;s made up his mind about what to do but then again perhaps he&#8217;s not made up his mind at [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Syria, it seems Obama&#8217;s made up his mind about what to do but then again perhaps he&#8217;s not made up his mind at [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: T		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/08/28/why-telegraph-an-attack-on-syria/#comment-647639</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:12:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=31136#comment-647639</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Blert,

I never meant to imply that Obama had the insight credited (at least in this article) to Daladier. Sorry if that&#039;s how my citation came across.

Rather, Obama and the American public together appear to me to be similar to the French populace in 1940 (thus Eric&#039;s citation above); both lauding their respective governments&#039; leadership all the while digging their own grave.

I say &quot;the American public&quot; because that is certainly true of those Americans of the &lt;i&gt;bien-pensant &lt;/i&gt;Progressive persuasion, but also those of the conservative persuasion who, in 2012, were willing to sit back and watch instead of voting.  They are accessories-after-the-fact to this clown show of an administration and just as damnable.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blert,</p>
<p>I never meant to imply that Obama had the insight credited (at least in this article) to Daladier. Sorry if that&#8217;s how my citation came across.</p>
<p>Rather, Obama and the American public together appear to me to be similar to the French populace in 1940 (thus Eric&#8217;s citation above); both lauding their respective governments&#8217; leadership all the while digging their own grave.</p>
<p>I say &#8220;the American public&#8221; because that is certainly true of those Americans of the <i>bien-pensant </i>Progressive persuasion, but also those of the conservative persuasion who, in 2012, were willing to sit back and watch instead of voting.  They are accessories-after-the-fact to this clown show of an administration and just as damnable.</p>
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		<title>
		By: blert		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/08/28/why-telegraph-an-attack-on-syria/#comment-647583</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=31136#comment-647583</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[T...

Edouard Daladier, and the French Government let the British and the Czechs down, not the reverse.

1) The sole dominant issue was the French commitment of its army. Period, stop. Under no conditions can one posit that the BEF with its trival 6 divisional equivalents be of any consequence in a land war with Nazi Germany. Even at the height of the war, Britain couldn&#039;t sustain more than one army sized BEF. All of the rest of her forces came from her Commonwealth. In 1938 such elements were off the table.

2) The route into Germany was EXCLUSIVELY French. Any other gambit entailed an amphibious invasion of Germany, proper, or an invasion of Belgium (neutral) thence on to Berlin. 

In sum, the ENTIRE fulcrum of decision was on Paris, not London. Chamberlain was and is the goat because he infamously waved diplomatic tissue paper at the airport. He should have SHUT UP.

However, his spending belied his utterances. Britain was, under his pen, spending large on ALL of the weapons that Churchill would employ to pull Britain through:

Merlin aero-engines (Spitfire, Hurricane, P-51, Lancaster,+ ...)
Chain Home radar network
Bomber Command
George V battleships (so frantic they went with 14&quot; rifles)
Universal carriers (aka Bren Carriers) (a tracked jeep)
Bletchley Park (it was already up and running for Winston)
ASDIC (aka Sonar)

Research labs that ultimately developed

Penicilliin 
10 cm (airborne -- counter- U-boat) radar

=========

Lastly, modern history omits Goring&#039;s impact. He was the man who thwarted prompt and immediate war. Adolf was crazy enough to want it right then and there!

After walking away, Hitler was so angry (considering himself out-foxed) that he wouldn&#039;t even speak to Goring! This went on for weeks.

It was only after reviewing the Czech defense works that he came to his senses. The German Army would&#039;ve been shattered if it had attacked. Absolutely none of his vaunted panzers could&#039;ve survived the encounter. The years of overgrowth had entirely hidden the nasty pillboxes and firing positions built by the Czechs over the years.

If Paris had not buckled, he would have been assassinated, as the German Army suffered WWI scale fatalities -- in a WWI style attack. 

As it was, Adolf picked up the Skoda Works for nothing. They ended up providing half of the panzers for the defeat of France.

Consequently, Goring became Adolf&#039;s best buddy all over again. (Similar tiffs with other Nazi generals were to occur later in the war. Like Barry, Adolf just could NOT bear to hear that he&#039;d EVER been wrong.)

France was defeated in 1938 -- at Munich. All subsequent diplomacy turned on their feckless performance then and there.

However, English speaker constantly run Chamberlain up the flag pole to take pot shots. He wasn&#039;t in any position to be the decisive power.

During the Cold War, both London and Washington had to station substantial formations in Germany precisely because no-one wanted to chance that DC would &#039;pull a Paris, 1938&#039; when the going got tough. It&#039;s something that neither power had ever done before. Such is the legacy of Munich.

===

The commentary about French aircraft production is all wrong. Paris was spending as much on her air force as Goring was! It&#039;s just that with each change in government, the previous contracts were torn up, and the business shifted over to friends. The result was an endless series of prototypes that never made it into mass production -- even though such factories had actually been built -- and paid for!

The French answer to the Bf-109 only started scaling up in the Spring of 1940. (!) It was utterly swamped by numbers. There was no time to even get the bugs out. It was thirty-months behind the Spitfire, all because of politics.

The F-22 and F-35 production tempos are shades of this dynamic, though the specifics differ.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T&#8230;</p>
<p>Edouard Daladier, and the French Government let the British and the Czechs down, not the reverse.</p>
<p>1) The sole dominant issue was the French commitment of its army. Period, stop. Under no conditions can one posit that the BEF with its trival 6 divisional equivalents be of any consequence in a land war with Nazi Germany. Even at the height of the war, Britain couldn&#8217;t sustain more than one army sized BEF. All of the rest of her forces came from her Commonwealth. In 1938 such elements were off the table.</p>
<p>2) The route into Germany was EXCLUSIVELY French. Any other gambit entailed an amphibious invasion of Germany, proper, or an invasion of Belgium (neutral) thence on to Berlin. </p>
<p>In sum, the ENTIRE fulcrum of decision was on Paris, not London. Chamberlain was and is the goat because he infamously waved diplomatic tissue paper at the airport. He should have SHUT UP.</p>
<p>However, his spending belied his utterances. Britain was, under his pen, spending large on ALL of the weapons that Churchill would employ to pull Britain through:</p>
<p>Merlin aero-engines (Spitfire, Hurricane, P-51, Lancaster,+ &#8230;)<br />
Chain Home radar network<br />
Bomber Command<br />
George V battleships (so frantic they went with 14&#8243; rifles)<br />
Universal carriers (aka Bren Carriers) (a tracked jeep)<br />
Bletchley Park (it was already up and running for Winston)<br />
ASDIC (aka Sonar)</p>
<p>Research labs that ultimately developed</p>
<p>Penicilliin<br />
10 cm (airborne &#8212; counter- U-boat) radar</p>
<p>=========</p>
<p>Lastly, modern history omits Goring&#8217;s impact. He was the man who thwarted prompt and immediate war. Adolf was crazy enough to want it right then and there!</p>
<p>After walking away, Hitler was so angry (considering himself out-foxed) that he wouldn&#8217;t even speak to Goring! This went on for weeks.</p>
<p>It was only after reviewing the Czech defense works that he came to his senses. The German Army would&#8217;ve been shattered if it had attacked. Absolutely none of his vaunted panzers could&#8217;ve survived the encounter. The years of overgrowth had entirely hidden the nasty pillboxes and firing positions built by the Czechs over the years.</p>
<p>If Paris had not buckled, he would have been assassinated, as the German Army suffered WWI scale fatalities &#8212; in a WWI style attack. </p>
<p>As it was, Adolf picked up the Skoda Works for nothing. They ended up providing half of the panzers for the defeat of France.</p>
<p>Consequently, Goring became Adolf&#8217;s best buddy all over again. (Similar tiffs with other Nazi generals were to occur later in the war. Like Barry, Adolf just could NOT bear to hear that he&#8217;d EVER been wrong.)</p>
<p>France was defeated in 1938 &#8212; at Munich. All subsequent diplomacy turned on their feckless performance then and there.</p>
<p>However, English speaker constantly run Chamberlain up the flag pole to take pot shots. He wasn&#8217;t in any position to be the decisive power.</p>
<p>During the Cold War, both London and Washington had to station substantial formations in Germany precisely because no-one wanted to chance that DC would &#8216;pull a Paris, 1938&#8217; when the going got tough. It&#8217;s something that neither power had ever done before. Such is the legacy of Munich.</p>
<p>===</p>
<p>The commentary about French aircraft production is all wrong. Paris was spending as much on her air force as Goring was! It&#8217;s just that with each change in government, the previous contracts were torn up, and the business shifted over to friends. The result was an endless series of prototypes that never made it into mass production &#8212; even though such factories had actually been built &#8212; and paid for!</p>
<p>The French answer to the Bf-109 only started scaling up in the Spring of 1940. (!) It was utterly swamped by numbers. There was no time to even get the bugs out. It was thirty-months behind the Spitfire, all because of politics.</p>
<p>The F-22 and F-35 production tempos are shades of this dynamic, though the specifics differ.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/08/28/why-telegraph-an-attack-on-syria/#comment-647554</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Aug 2013 16:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=31136#comment-647554</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[When the sky itself has turned into your enemy and smites you down randomly... no human can contest it by themselves. Such is the Will of Heaven and what primitive ancestors once knew very well.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the sky itself has turned into your enemy and smites you down randomly&#8230; no human can contest it by themselves. Such is the Will of Heaven and what primitive ancestors once knew very well.</p>
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		<title>
		By: T		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/08/28/why-telegraph-an-attack-on-syria/#comment-647496</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=31136#comment-647496</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Eric,

Thanks.  This essay, too, is a keeper.  Once again, &lt;i&gt;nihil sub sole novum&lt;/i&gt;.

O/T but I was struck by this sentence:

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;And the bombing was psychologically-shattering, especially for inexperienced troops. The famous historian Marc Bloch had been exposed to many artillery barrages while fighting in the First World War: in reflecting on his service in 1940, he observed that he found aerial bombing much more frightening even though it was, objectively, probably less dangerous. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Recently some have offered this exact theory (fear and inexperienced reporters) as the reason for the negative press coverage of the Tet Offensive in Vietnam (i.e., negative regarding the US).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric,</p>
<p>Thanks.  This essay, too, is a keeper.  Once again, <i>nihil sub sole novum</i>.</p>
<p>O/T but I was struck by this sentence:</p>
<blockquote cite=""><p>And the bombing was psychologically-shattering, especially for inexperienced troops. The famous historian Marc Bloch had been exposed to many artillery barrages while fighting in the First World War: in reflecting on his service in 1940, he observed that he found aerial bombing much more frightening even though it was, objectively, probably less dangerous. </p></blockquote>
<p>Recently some have offered this exact theory (fear and inexperienced reporters) as the reason for the negative press coverage of the Tet Offensive in Vietnam (i.e., negative regarding the US).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/08/28/why-telegraph-an-attack-on-syria/#comment-647419</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=31136#comment-647419</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[T,

Closely related to the subject matter of the DiploMad post, Chicago Boyz, back in 2007, had a typically insightful post comparing pre-WW2 France to present-day America.

http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/004953.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T,</p>
<p>Closely related to the subject matter of the DiploMad post, Chicago Boyz, back in 2007, had a typically insightful post comparing pre-WW2 France to present-day America.</p>
<p><a href="http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/004953.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/004953.html</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Roman		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/08/28/why-telegraph-an-attack-on-syria/#comment-647396</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Aug 2013 11:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=31136#comment-647396</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Launching 30-40 Million dollars worth of cruise missles to take out a couple of squads of infantry while the Dear Leader sits in his palace bunker sipping cognac will not deter any despot, anywhere.  

Where there are no real consequences to your actions, what is the deterance? 

The dinosaur media will trumpet the latest foreign policy gaff as wonderful and Chairman O will continue to reign supreme.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Launching 30-40 Million dollars worth of cruise missles to take out a couple of squads of infantry while the Dear Leader sits in his palace bunker sipping cognac will not deter any despot, anywhere.  </p>
<p>Where there are no real consequences to your actions, what is the deterance? </p>
<p>The dinosaur media will trumpet the latest foreign policy gaff as wonderful and Chairman O will continue to reign supreme.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/08/28/why-telegraph-an-attack-on-syria/#comment-647271</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Aug 2013 07:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=31136#comment-647271</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Some people actually think there is One Single Truth, and that they know it.

When they can convince their family members on the Left that the Left is evil and that they shouldn&#039;t be participating in shoveling off people into concentration camps... perhaps I&#039;ll be able to believe in their One Single Truth afterwards.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some people actually think there is One Single Truth, and that they know it.</p>
<p>When they can convince their family members on the Left that the Left is evil and that they shouldn&#8217;t be participating in shoveling off people into concentration camps&#8230; perhaps I&#8217;ll be able to believe in their One Single Truth afterwards.</p>
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		<title>
		By: T		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/08/28/why-telegraph-an-attack-on-syria/#comment-647153</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Aug 2013 03:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=31136#comment-647153</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Earlier I wrote:

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;Why telegraph an attack on Syria?

1) This administration is just not very wise or smart&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I offer as another viewpoint on the stupidity and ineptitude of this administration the following link which I suggest is a must-read (H/T &lt;i&gt;Instapundit&lt;/i&gt; How does he find this stuff?)


http://thediplomad.blogspot.com/2013/08/obama-and-edouard-daladier-moment.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Earlier I wrote:</p>
<blockquote cite=""><p>Why telegraph an attack on Syria?</p>
<p>1) This administration is just not very wise or smart</p></blockquote>
<p>I offer as another viewpoint on the stupidity and ineptitude of this administration the following link which I suggest is a must-read (H/T <i>Instapundit</i> How does he find this stuff?)</p>
<p><a href="http://thediplomad.blogspot.com/2013/08/obama-and-edouard-daladier-moment.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://thediplomad.blogspot.com/2013/08/obama-and-edouard-daladier-moment.html</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/08/28/why-telegraph-an-attack-on-syria/#comment-647098</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J. formerly Jimmy J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Aug 2013 02:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=31136#comment-647098</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[James: &quot;You stole my thunder. L B J and Co. also spelled it out as far as their goal. Uncle Ho and the boys just ignored it and put pressure on us.&quot;

Both of us named James. &#039;Tis a grand name. Also, great minds and all that. :-)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James: &#8220;You stole my thunder. L B J and Co. also spelled it out as far as their goal. Uncle Ho and the boys just ignored it and put pressure on us.&#8221;</p>
<p>Both of us named James. &#8216;Tis a grand name. Also, great minds and all that. 🙂</p>
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