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	Comments on: Myths about electric cars	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/27/myths-about-electric-cars/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: bob r		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/27/myths-about-electric-cars/#comment-587130</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bob r]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Apr 2013 16:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27157#comment-587130</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;A technical tip: Thorium can’t release energy. It’s only fertile. It becomes U233 – an extremely dangerous isotope of Uranium – which does all of the work.

It’s dangerous because it can be separated from the Thorium – chemically – and converted into even better atomic bombs than the regular ones that we all know and fear.

Terrific.

U233 is simply the best atomic explosive isotope to be had.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

The Wikipedia &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium-233&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;article on U233&lt;/a&gt; indicates this is not a &quot;real&quot; problem and that actual bombs built using U-233 have not produced even the predicted yield.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;A technical tip: Thorium can’t release energy. It’s only fertile. It becomes U233 – an extremely dangerous isotope of Uranium – which does all of the work.</p>
<p>It’s dangerous because it can be separated from the Thorium – chemically – and converted into even better atomic bombs than the regular ones that we all know and fear.</p>
<p>Terrific.</p>
<p>U233 is simply the best atomic explosive isotope to be had.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>The Wikipedia <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium-233" rel="nofollow">article on U233</a> indicates this is not a &#8220;real&#8221; problem and that actual bombs built using U-233 have not produced even the predicted yield.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Don		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/27/myths-about-electric-cars/#comment-586570</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Apr 2013 18:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27157#comment-586570</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oh, and I agree with most of what I&#039;ve read in this thread on the limits of battery tech. That is the key limiting factor in EVs.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and I agree with most of what I&#8217;ve read in this thread on the limits of battery tech. That is the key limiting factor in EVs.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Don		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/27/myths-about-electric-cars/#comment-586564</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Apr 2013 18:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27157#comment-586564</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[At this point natural gas is the best solution for the grid. However, breeder reactors are a good solution that work NOW and would be a great solution in the future if the government allowed them. One of the reasons nukes cost so much is the excessive government permit process.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At this point natural gas is the best solution for the grid. However, breeder reactors are a good solution that work NOW and would be a great solution in the future if the government allowed them. One of the reasons nukes cost so much is the excessive government permit process.</p>
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		<title>
		By: blert		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/27/myths-about-electric-cars/#comment-586219</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Apr 2013 03:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27157#comment-586219</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Some of the popular elements used in rechargeable batteries are the LAST thing you&#039;d want at the scene of an auto accident.

Cadmium (from Cades; Devil of Zinc) 

Touched on just a bit: VIBRATION is a battery killer.

About a century ago some attempt was made to take steam turbine technology from ships and power stations to the railroads.

It was discovered -- only during real world testing -- that the roughness of the national track system was too much for steam turbines -- any steam turbines.

They kept being destroyed in the bearings, seals and gears. None of those issues stopped steam turbines from being the low cost, high performance leader at sea -- or when stationary.

Likewise auto batteries. They need to be babied. A century ago that meant that electric cars stayed on the nice paved streets in the nicer neighborhoods.

Such conditions still prevail for current enthusiasts.

Any attempt to take EVs seriously on the road will have them breaking down that moment. 

Some flavor of this was written into the script of 

&quot;The Great Race&quot; (1965)

wherein Maggie Dubois (Natalie Wood) has to abandon her Stanley Steamer early in the race -- whence to join the Great Leslie (Tony Curtis) for the rest of the plot.

At that time, everyone knew that it was leaving town that really exposed the weakness of the steamers: they&#039;re water and fuel pigs.

=========

A technical tip: Thorium can&#039;t release energy. It&#039;s only fertile. It becomes U233 -- an extremely dangerous isotope of Uranium -- which does all of the work. 

It&#039;s dangerous because it can be separated from the Thorium -- chemically -- and converted into even better atomic bombs than the regular ones that we all know and fear.

Terrific.

U233 is simply the best atomic explosive isotope to be had.

We better hope that nuclear fusion never succeeds. If it does, we&#039;ll be swamped with cheap neutrons. The only economic reason atomic bombs are expensive is because neutrons are brutally expensive. EVERY atomic program is bedeviled by the need to squeeze out the most performance from every neutron.

In sum: practical fusion will open Pandora&#039;s box -- for all time.

Every high school student will be able to craft Heath Kit atomics.

(BTW, one high school nerd did, in fact, get atomic reactions to proceed -- in his backyard. He thought that transmuting elements would be just so cool. His results were such that a haz-mat team had to swarm his parent&#039;s property. Cute.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the popular elements used in rechargeable batteries are the LAST thing you&#8217;d want at the scene of an auto accident.</p>
<p>Cadmium (from Cades; Devil of Zinc) </p>
<p>Touched on just a bit: VIBRATION is a battery killer.</p>
<p>About a century ago some attempt was made to take steam turbine technology from ships and power stations to the railroads.</p>
<p>It was discovered &#8212; only during real world testing &#8212; that the roughness of the national track system was too much for steam turbines &#8212; any steam turbines.</p>
<p>They kept being destroyed in the bearings, seals and gears. None of those issues stopped steam turbines from being the low cost, high performance leader at sea &#8212; or when stationary.</p>
<p>Likewise auto batteries. They need to be babied. A century ago that meant that electric cars stayed on the nice paved streets in the nicer neighborhoods.</p>
<p>Such conditions still prevail for current enthusiasts.</p>
<p>Any attempt to take EVs seriously on the road will have them breaking down that moment. </p>
<p>Some flavor of this was written into the script of </p>
<p>&#8220;The Great Race&#8221; (1965)</p>
<p>wherein Maggie Dubois (Natalie Wood) has to abandon her Stanley Steamer early in the race &#8212; whence to join the Great Leslie (Tony Curtis) for the rest of the plot.</p>
<p>At that time, everyone knew that it was leaving town that really exposed the weakness of the steamers: they&#8217;re water and fuel pigs.</p>
<p>=========</p>
<p>A technical tip: Thorium can&#8217;t release energy. It&#8217;s only fertile. It becomes U233 &#8212; an extremely dangerous isotope of Uranium &#8212; which does all of the work. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s dangerous because it can be separated from the Thorium &#8212; chemically &#8212; and converted into even better atomic bombs than the regular ones that we all know and fear.</p>
<p>Terrific.</p>
<p>U233 is simply the best atomic explosive isotope to be had.</p>
<p>We better hope that nuclear fusion never succeeds. If it does, we&#8217;ll be swamped with cheap neutrons. The only economic reason atomic bombs are expensive is because neutrons are brutally expensive. EVERY atomic program is bedeviled by the need to squeeze out the most performance from every neutron.</p>
<p>In sum: practical fusion will open Pandora&#8217;s box &#8212; for all time.</p>
<p>Every high school student will be able to craft Heath Kit atomics.</p>
<p>(BTW, one high school nerd did, in fact, get atomic reactions to proceed &#8212; in his backyard. He thought that transmuting elements would be just so cool. His results were such that a haz-mat team had to swarm his parent&#8217;s property. Cute.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/27/myths-about-electric-cars/#comment-586177</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J. formerly Jimmy J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Apr 2013 00:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27157#comment-586177</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[IGotBupkis said, &quot;That is, from start to finish, how much energy us used to MAKE the car, how much to OPERATE the car, and then how much to DISPOSE/RECYCLE the car.

Once you add a buttload of batteries to that mix, the first and last numbers go up in a way that utterly SWAMPS the meager numbers of OPERATING the car, which is what most people Just Don’t Get.&quot;

A very concise explanation of why EVs are not ready for prime time. The hybrids stack up a little better but they still  have the issues of battery costs over the life of the car and battery disposal costs.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IGotBupkis said, &#8220;That is, from start to finish, how much energy us used to MAKE the car, how much to OPERATE the car, and then how much to DISPOSE/RECYCLE the car.</p>
<p>Once you add a buttload of batteries to that mix, the first and last numbers go up in a way that utterly SWAMPS the meager numbers of OPERATING the car, which is what most people Just Don’t Get.&#8221;</p>
<p>A very concise explanation of why EVs are not ready for prime time. The hybrids stack up a little better but they still  have the issues of battery costs over the life of the car and battery disposal costs.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Philip Ngai		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/27/myths-about-electric-cars/#comment-586121</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip Ngai]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Apr 2013 21:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27157#comment-586121</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It is likely that the liberals think that electricity could be a &quot;magic, no pollution” energy source if the government could just spend even more money on wind and solar.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is likely that the liberals think that electricity could be a &#8220;magic, no pollution” energy source if the government could just spend even more money on wind and solar.</p>
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		By: IGotBupkis -- "Faecies Evenio", Mr. Holder?		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/27/myths-about-electric-cars/#comment-586024</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[IGotBupkis -- "Faecies Evenio", Mr. Holder?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Apr 2013 15:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27157#comment-586024</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Bumped into this &quot;money quote&quot;:

It costs $60,000 to $75,000 to build a Volt, including development, manufacturing and raw materials -- (snip) -- With a sticker price of $40,000, minus the $10,000 the company pays in incentives, GM gets roughly $30,000 for every Volt. So it could be losing at least $30,000 per car.

Read the whole thing:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/sep/23/chevrolets-volt-selling-but-not-at-sticker-price/?page=all]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bumped into this &#8220;money quote&#8221;:</p>
<p>It costs $60,000 to $75,000 to build a Volt, including development, manufacturing and raw materials &#8212; (snip) &#8212; With a sticker price of $40,000, minus the $10,000 the company pays in incentives, GM gets roughly $30,000 for every Volt. So it could be losing at least $30,000 per car.</p>
<p>Read the whole thing:<br />
<a href="http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/sep/23/chevrolets-volt-selling-but-not-at-sticker-price/?page=all" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/sep/23/chevrolets-volt-selling-but-not-at-sticker-price/?page=all</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: IGotBupkis -- "Faecies Evenio", Mr. Holder?		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/27/myths-about-electric-cars/#comment-586011</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[IGotBupkis -- "Faecies Evenio", Mr. Holder?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Apr 2013 14:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27157#comment-586011</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Another comment made there -- 
&lt;i&gt;...like ignoring the cost of replacing the batteries after 6-7 years -- at typical total yearly driving, about 72k-84k miles, LONG before an IC car needs any kind of major overhaul of comparable expense. 
 
In ten years, this is going to be an obvious issue, as you have to pay someone 1k or more to take the damned batteries off your hands to be recycled. And, of course, the original owners will have long since pawned them off on some poor schnook, who, not being able to afford to dispose of them properly, will try and scrape off all the serial information off the useless hulk, and then dump the car in the woods somewhere. 

Yeah, *wonderful* for the environment!! &lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another comment made there &#8212;<br />
<i>&#8230;like ignoring the cost of replacing the batteries after 6-7 years &#8212; at typical total yearly driving, about 72k-84k miles, LONG before an IC car needs any kind of major overhaul of comparable expense. </p>
<p>In ten years, this is going to be an obvious issue, as you have to pay someone 1k or more to take the damned batteries off your hands to be recycled. And, of course, the original owners will have long since pawned them off on some poor schnook, who, not being able to afford to dispose of them properly, will try and scrape off all the serial information off the useless hulk, and then dump the car in the woods somewhere. </p>
<p>Yeah, *wonderful* for the environment!! </i></p>
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		<title>
		By: DirtyJobsGuy		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/27/myths-about-electric-cars/#comment-585999</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DirtyJobsGuy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Apr 2013 14:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27157#comment-585999</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The lefts fascination with electric cars is the same as their obsession with trains.  They love technologies that limit personal freedom.  If they were truly environmentally focused,  Compressed natural gas would be on their radar.   While less practical than diesel/gasoline it is very worthwhile for delivery trucks and buses.    EV&#039;s will require extensive networks of subsidized charging stations to be even marginally practical which when they are not used will prompt bigger efforts to make people by EV&#039;s.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The lefts fascination with electric cars is the same as their obsession with trains.  They love technologies that limit personal freedom.  If they were truly environmentally focused,  Compressed natural gas would be on their radar.   While less practical than diesel/gasoline it is very worthwhile for delivery trucks and buses.    EV&#8217;s will require extensive networks of subsidized charging stations to be even marginally practical which when they are not used will prompt bigger efforts to make people by EV&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>
		By: IGotBupkis -- "Faecies Evenio", Mr. Holder?		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/27/myths-about-electric-cars/#comment-585922</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[IGotBupkis -- "Faecies Evenio", Mr. Holder?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Apr 2013 11:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27157#comment-585922</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I will note, btw, though, that Fusion is to power generation what the electric car is to the automobile industry. 

Both have been several decades away for several decades now.

When you hear of some agency breaking the Lawson Criterion that will be a big deal... and it&#039;s not happened in more than 60 years of Fusion research, now. 

Simplistically put, the Lawson Criterion is the point at which the energy you put INTO the system is equal to or less  than the energy you get OUT of the system.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will note, btw, though, that Fusion is to power generation what the electric car is to the automobile industry. </p>
<p>Both have been several decades away for several decades now.</p>
<p>When you hear of some agency breaking the Lawson Criterion that will be a big deal&#8230; and it&#8217;s not happened in more than 60 years of Fusion research, now. </p>
<p>Simplistically put, the Lawson Criterion is the point at which the energy you put INTO the system is equal to or less  than the energy you get OUT of the system.</p>
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