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	Comments on: Somehow methinks that&#8230;	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/24/somehow-methinks-that/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 17:32:35 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/24/somehow-methinks-that/#comment-584009</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 17:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27084#comment-584009</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Don Carlos: I am not disputing the fact that in some cases SWAT teams entered homes and homeowners may have left while they looked around (voluntarily on part of homeowners).  That is not disputed; the dispute is over the amount of threat and aggression by the SWAT teams.  I have read reports by homeowners that police were very respectful, and that in many cases they did not even go into homes but searched garages and the like.  And it is my impression this only occurred in the 20-block area of the Watertown perimeter in which the bomber was ascertained to be after the firefight (he actually was found one block outside the perimteter, by the way), rather than all of Boston.  

At least that has been my strong impression from the searches (computer searches, that is!) I&#039;ve done.

People were &lt;i&gt;motivated&lt;/i&gt; to cooperate.  If a homicidal bomber was in my neighborhood hiding, I&#039;d be happy to voluntarily welcome a SWAT team into my home to look around, and thus eliminate my home from contention.  I don&#039;t think that means I&#039;ve entered the fascist-compliant mindset.  The question is how much force and threat was used when people refused.  And of course some people probably felt they &lt;i&gt;couldn&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; refuse, even if they could---after all, it&#039;s an armed SWAT team.  

And there&#039;s nothing special about the people of Watertown in this respect, IMHO.  I&#039;m sure some of them have guns in their homes, as well.  Why this image of them all cowering, gunless, in their homes?  I even know some liberals who own guns, by the way---quite a few, actually. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don Carlos: I am not disputing the fact that in some cases SWAT teams entered homes and homeowners may have left while they looked around (voluntarily on part of homeowners).  That is not disputed; the dispute is over the amount of threat and aggression by the SWAT teams.  I have read reports by homeowners that police were very respectful, and that in many cases they did not even go into homes but searched garages and the like.  And it is my impression this only occurred in the 20-block area of the Watertown perimeter in which the bomber was ascertained to be after the firefight (he actually was found one block outside the perimteter, by the way), rather than all of Boston.  </p>
<p>At least that has been my strong impression from the searches (computer searches, that is!) I&#8217;ve done.</p>
<p>People were <i>motivated</i> to cooperate.  If a homicidal bomber was in my neighborhood hiding, I&#8217;d be happy to voluntarily welcome a SWAT team into my home to look around, and thus eliminate my home from contention.  I don&#8217;t think that means I&#8217;ve entered the fascist-compliant mindset.  The question is how much force and threat was used when people refused.  And of course some people probably felt they <i>couldn&#8217;t</i> refuse, even if they could&#8212;after all, it&#8217;s an armed SWAT team.  </p>
<p>And there&#8217;s nothing special about the people of Watertown in this respect, IMHO.  I&#8217;m sure some of them have guns in their homes, as well.  Why this image of them all cowering, gunless, in their homes?  I even know some liberals who own guns, by the way&#8212;quite a few, actually. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Don		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/24/somehow-methinks-that/#comment-584007</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 17:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27084#comment-584007</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Interesting metaanalysis of police shootings:

http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni/OIS.pdf

Note the &quot;bunch shooting&quot; analysis for LA county on pg 9. One officer involved it is 3.59 shots fired with 51% hits; 2 officers is 4.98 shots and 23% hits, more then two is 6.48 shots and 9% hits.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting metaanalysis of police shootings:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni/OIS.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni/OIS.pdf</a></p>
<p>Note the &#8220;bunch shooting&#8221; analysis for LA county on pg 9. One officer involved it is 3.59 shots fired with 51% hits; 2 officers is 4.98 shots and 23% hits, more then two is 6.48 shots and 9% hits.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Don Carlos		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/24/somehow-methinks-that/#comment-583945</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don Carlos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 15:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27084#comment-583945</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Re SWAT and the militarization of the police:

Neo said: &quot;The videos (mostly a single video, by the way) of SWAT teams storming a home are not identified as having occurred as part of the reaction to the bomber at all, except by some blogs spreading the video around.&quot;

Today, Henninger said in the WSJ: &quot; The citizens of Boston and its suburbs allowed massively armed SWAT teams to enter their homes, order residents out and eventually find the bullet-riddled Dzhokhar Tsarnaev lying half-dead in a boat.&quot;

I am not sure whether Neo is concerned about &quot;blogs spreading videos around&quot; or actual SWAT teams and their numbers and conduct. I am concerned about Citizens v. Government, and that extends to people v. SWAT. I am not concerned about a &quot;single blog&quot;. It is ironic that blogess Neo should express such concern.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re SWAT and the militarization of the police:</p>
<p>Neo said: &#8220;The videos (mostly a single video, by the way) of SWAT teams storming a home are not identified as having occurred as part of the reaction to the bomber at all, except by some blogs spreading the video around.&#8221;</p>
<p>Today, Henninger said in the WSJ: &#8221; The citizens of Boston and its suburbs allowed massively armed SWAT teams to enter their homes, order residents out and eventually find the bullet-riddled Dzhokhar Tsarnaev lying half-dead in a boat.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am not sure whether Neo is concerned about &#8220;blogs spreading videos around&#8221; or actual SWAT teams and their numbers and conduct. I am concerned about Citizens v. Government, and that extends to people v. SWAT. I am not concerned about a &#8220;single blog&#8221;. It is ironic that blogess Neo should express such concern.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Oldflyer		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/24/somehow-methinks-that/#comment-583934</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oldflyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 15:06:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27084#comment-583934</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ricki,  I am sorry to say that I have seen nothing to indicate that anyone has been sanctioned for this episode.

But, now that the settlement has been announced perhaps someone will be.  Unfortunately, the public, as is often the case, has  shown little interest in the debacle that occurred here.  By the way, another innocent citizen had his truck shot up about the same time,  although I don&#039;t think he was wounded.  Dozens of shots were fired without hitting him.

It is worse than this one episode, however.  The number of shootings by police of unarmed persons in the greater LA area has become nearly epidemic.  By report, the police always feel threatened in some way or other, but it is clear that there is now a mentality of shoot early in any confrontation.  Even when the shootee is greatly outnumbered.  I don&#039;t know why we spend so much money on tasers, mace, pepper spray and truncheons.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ricki,  I am sorry to say that I have seen nothing to indicate that anyone has been sanctioned for this episode.</p>
<p>But, now that the settlement has been announced perhaps someone will be.  Unfortunately, the public, as is often the case, has  shown little interest in the debacle that occurred here.  By the way, another innocent citizen had his truck shot up about the same time,  although I don&#8217;t think he was wounded.  Dozens of shots were fired without hitting him.</p>
<p>It is worse than this one episode, however.  The number of shootings by police of unarmed persons in the greater LA area has become nearly epidemic.  By report, the police always feel threatened in some way or other, but it is clear that there is now a mentality of shoot early in any confrontation.  Even when the shootee is greatly outnumbered.  I don&#8217;t know why we spend so much money on tasers, mace, pepper spray and truncheons.</p>
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		By: rickl		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/24/somehow-methinks-that/#comment-583737</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rickl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 11:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27084#comment-583737</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oldflyer Says: 
April 25th, 2013 at 12:43 am
&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;I am rather pleased to report that the two women in the shot up pick-up just settled with the police department for $4.2 million.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Of course, in situations like that, it&#039;s the taxpayers who end up paying the settlement.  Have the police officers involved faced any sanction or punishment?  

A civilian who misidentified and shot up a truck full of innocents would be facing prison time.  It&#039;s just another example of different sets of laws for the ruling class/government employees vs. the peasantry.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oldflyer Says:<br />
April 25th, 2013 at 12:43 am</p>
<blockquote cite=""><p>I am rather pleased to report that the two women in the shot up pick-up just settled with the police department for $4.2 million.</p></blockquote>
<p>Of course, in situations like that, it&#8217;s the taxpayers who end up paying the settlement.  Have the police officers involved faced any sanction or punishment?  </p>
<p>A civilian who misidentified and shot up a truck full of innocents would be facing prison time.  It&#8217;s just another example of different sets of laws for the ruling class/government employees vs. the peasantry.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Oldflyer		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/24/somehow-methinks-that/#comment-583560</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oldflyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 04:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27084#comment-583560</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neo, imprecise language on my part.  I did not mean that people were huddled in their homes for days.  I was referring to the fact that the transportation system was shut down, and from new reports,(and I do take them with a grain of salt) the business of the area was pretty well stifled.  Of course, a lot of people were strongly advised, if not required, to stay indoors, at least in the Watertown area.  My assessment is that potential terrorists learned a lot about our reactions to threats.   They know for certain that they can impact metropolitan areas with simple threats.

The Dorner case played out in the area where I am located.  There were a lot of really bad aspects to this whole even, besides the actions of Dorner himself.  I am rather pleased to report that the two women in the shot up pick-up just settled with the police department for $4.2 million.  It is discouraging to know, as in the Boston situation, just how many rounds of ammunition the police fired before they hit their target.  One good lesson for innocent people, no matter who you are, you do not want to be anywhere near when a cop pulls his gun.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo, imprecise language on my part.  I did not mean that people were huddled in their homes for days.  I was referring to the fact that the transportation system was shut down, and from new reports,(and I do take them with a grain of salt) the business of the area was pretty well stifled.  Of course, a lot of people were strongly advised, if not required, to stay indoors, at least in the Watertown area.  My assessment is that potential terrorists learned a lot about our reactions to threats.   They know for certain that they can impact metropolitan areas with simple threats.</p>
<p>The Dorner case played out in the area where I am located.  There were a lot of really bad aspects to this whole even, besides the actions of Dorner himself.  I am rather pleased to report that the two women in the shot up pick-up just settled with the police department for $4.2 million.  It is discouraging to know, as in the Boston situation, just how many rounds of ammunition the police fired before they hit their target.  One good lesson for innocent people, no matter who you are, you do not want to be anywhere near when a cop pulls his gun.</p>
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		<title>
		By: southpaw		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/24/somehow-methinks-that/#comment-583545</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[southpaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 04:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27084#comment-583545</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In most neighborhoods in Texas, the chase wouldn&#039;t have lasted long if that stupid kid had tried hiding in people&#039;s yards.  He would have gotten his ass shot off. There are enough guns around here to arm the military of a few small countries.  
   Of course it would have spoiled all the fun for SWAT, the National Guard, the Marines, the BPD, the state troopers, CIA, FBI, Air Force, Army, Navy, and whoever else I left out who participated in the Boston manhunt.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In most neighborhoods in Texas, the chase wouldn&#8217;t have lasted long if that stupid kid had tried hiding in people&#8217;s yards.  He would have gotten his ass shot off. There are enough guns around here to arm the military of a few small countries.<br />
   Of course it would have spoiled all the fun for SWAT, the National Guard, the Marines, the BPD, the state troopers, CIA, FBI, Air Force, Army, Navy, and whoever else I left out who participated in the Boston manhunt.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Adams		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/24/somehow-methinks-that/#comment-583519</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Adams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 03:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27084#comment-583519</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[People all over town, even in the Peoples Democratic Republic of Austin, are laughing at the likely result of a terrorist teenager on the run in, say, Dallas. Not likely to have taken so long.  Yes, I realize people in the Northeast would be sure that armed civilians, legally known as the militia, would shoot one another up.  Those of us who are more familiar with guns and shooters are of a different opinion.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People all over town, even in the Peoples Democratic Republic of Austin, are laughing at the likely result of a terrorist teenager on the run in, say, Dallas. Not likely to have taken so long.  Yes, I realize people in the Northeast would be sure that armed civilians, legally known as the militia, would shoot one another up.  Those of us who are more familiar with guns and shooters are of a different opinion.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/24/somehow-methinks-that/#comment-583503</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 02:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27084#comment-583503</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Boston - the entire liberal city and all its citizens - are being lauded as somehow being brave fighters.

Reality: They all ran and hid in their basements. The entire city practically shut down. Thousands of cops were searching for a wounded teenager and the brave Bostonians had to cower and wonder how effeminate they had become by giving up their natural rights to self-defense and the preservation of their own lives.

It stands to reason. Liberals justify killing babies and call it &quot;choice&quot;. They won&#039;t defend the most innocent lives; why should they defend their own?

They don&#039;t.

Let&#039;s give the city a medal of honor for cowering in fear. It&#039;s a long long way from the frontier spirit.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boston &#8211; the entire liberal city and all its citizens &#8211; are being lauded as somehow being brave fighters.</p>
<p>Reality: They all ran and hid in their basements. The entire city practically shut down. Thousands of cops were searching for a wounded teenager and the brave Bostonians had to cower and wonder how effeminate they had become by giving up their natural rights to self-defense and the preservation of their own lives.</p>
<p>It stands to reason. Liberals justify killing babies and call it &#8220;choice&#8221;. They won&#8217;t defend the most innocent lives; why should they defend their own?</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s give the city a medal of honor for cowering in fear. It&#8217;s a long long way from the frontier spirit.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Don Carlos		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/04/24/somehow-methinks-that/#comment-583490</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don Carlos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Apr 2013 02:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=27084#comment-583490</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[SWAT &quot;teams&quot;, obviosly.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SWAT &#8220;teams&#8221;, obviosly.</p>
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