Comments on: Grass fed organic hamburg

By: thomass

thomass — Sat, 19 Jan 2013 00:19:59 +0000

Wild herbivores… Oops

By: thomass

thomass — Sat, 19 Jan 2013 00:11:59 +0000

PS
Read the link. It used the British experience / government as a its major source and I think that is a problem. I’ve read articles about the various methodology errors in their research over the years. One being they did not take the age issue I mentioned above into account. Since few people died they drew various conclusions about how it was spread based on that.. but most of the people were young who died and they didn’t look into whether many more people had low level exposure / infections (that wouldn’t kill them before other causes)… which would then point to it being spread in other ways.

As a counter point I would raise chronic wasting. Its an epidemic in the US but it is among wild omnivores.

By: thomass

thomass — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 23:45:58 +0000

Your mixing your samples. If the environment in Uruguay is free of prion diseases… no practices will spread something that isn’t there.

These diseases are in the wild in the US and UK… We have both ‘mad cow’ and chronic wasting. The UK has mad cow and scrapie. Papua New Guinea has kuru… et cetera…

On the plus side… as our bodies slow down (re: age) the effects take longer. So; we might all have it but if it is small amounts it won’t matter… whereas a growing child might die from the same amount. Anyway; I guess cancer won’t be the only problem if they find a way to reverse aging by playing with cell telomeres…

By: neo-neocon

neo-neocon — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 22:38:14 +0000

thomass: I see what you're saying, but there's something about it that isn't convincing, and I'll tell you what it is. The empirical evidence about the disease does not support it. If you read about the disease and how its been transmitted and its natural history so far, you'll find that grass-fed cattle are less susceptible, not more. The epidemiology appears to indicate no cases in countries such as Uruguay where the beef is much more predominently grass-fed. If cattle are really grass-fed, and the disease is not introduced into the population in the first place, it's hard to see how it could be spread by contaminated grass. The grass can only become contaminated from a diseased animal in the first place. And although there is evidence that for some other prion-type diseases (such as the deer disease Don Carlos mentioned above) the grass is probably a vector of transmission, that is for a somewhat different disease, and in a population where the disease is already widespread. It's very complex, but the bottom line is that in terms of actual evidence rather than theoretical speculation, grass fed beef is safer. Actually, the entire beef population is safer than it used to be in this regard, due to more stringent regulations about feeding and testing animals.

By: thomass

thomass — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 22:12:11 +0000

neo-neocon Says:

“I thought animals got prion disease from consuming feed made of animal parts from the nervous system (i.e. brains).”

Some of the proteins are in their waste and they’re very tough proteins that persist for awhile. So; even after the ‘rest’ is gone they can still be on grass (which ends up being the transmission medium). Someone else mentioned even bone meal fertilizer could be contaminated which can give you an idea. So; non organic crops grown with chemical fertilizer can be safer feed.

By: KLSmith

KLSmith — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 21:48:28 +0000

Thanks, Neo. Thought maybe it was a regional thing or some new word rule I’d missed. Like, it’s not hamburg-er unless it’s actually made in to a burger.

By: fmt

fmt — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:02:32 +0000

Hey, Lurch, Bingo! “Organic” should be called cruelty to animals. Why do “organic” dairy cows produce less milk than conventional dairy cows? Because they are less well fed and less well cared for. I can’t use the word “organic” with a straight face. The chemicals aren’t killing us, the chemicals are keeping us alive.

By: Don Carlos

Don Carlos — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 19:30:46 +0000

White-tailed deer in northern WI have a prion disease, called “wasting disease”, and they’re all wild foragers.
Ingest a prion, that’s all it takes, whether in commercial feed or vegetation tainted by a prion-positive deer’s saliva.

By: neo-neocon

neo-neocon — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 19:03:57 +0000

thomass: why is grass fed a bigger risk for prion disease? I thought animals got prion disease from consuming feed made of animal parts from the nervous system (i.e. brains). When last I checked, that wasn't the content of either grass or grain.

By: neo-neocon

neo-neocon — Fri, 18 Jan 2013 19:00:37 +0000

Don Carlos: yes, if I recall correctly (don’t have time to check it right now), the meat is imported from Uruguay and New Zealand. The map shows a wide distribution in the east, and lists a lot of Costco stores and some restaurants. It’s actually available elsewhere, too, in places that are not listed on the website. I’m not sure what your point is: buy American?