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	Comments on: Overweight good, thin bad?	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/04/overweight-good-thin-bad/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Smock Puppet, 10th Dan Snark Master and Gravitationally Distortive Object		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/04/overweight-good-thin-bad/#comment-497009</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Smock Puppet, 10th Dan Snark Master and Gravitationally Distortive Object]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 06:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23438#comment-497009</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[FAD science. It&#039;s all the rage.

From AGW to Obesity to &quot;Recovered Memories&quot; --- it&#039;s about quacks, charlatans, and demagogues with an agenda.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://wolfhowling.blogspot.com/2011/01/scientific-method-its-limits-decline.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wolf Howling: The Scientific Method and Its Limits - The Decline Effect&lt;/a&gt;
Money Quote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;But now all sorts of well-established, multiply confirmed findings have started to look increasingly uncertain. It’s as if our facts were losing their truth: claims that have been enshrined in textbooks are suddenly unprovable. This phenomenon doesn’t yet have an official name, but it’s occurring across a wide range of fields, from psychology to ecology.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Also (no relation):
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2012/05/great-idea.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Coyoteblog: Great Idea -- The Reproduciblity Project&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FAD science. It&#8217;s all the rage.</p>
<p>From AGW to Obesity to &#8220;Recovered Memories&#8221; &#8212; it&#8217;s about quacks, charlatans, and demagogues with an agenda.</p>
<p><a href="http://wolfhowling.blogspot.com/2011/01/scientific-method-its-limits-decline.html" rel="nofollow">Wolf Howling: The Scientific Method and Its Limits &#8211; The Decline Effect</a><br />
Money Quote:</p>
<blockquote><p><i>But now all sorts of well-established, multiply confirmed findings have started to look increasingly uncertain. It’s as if our facts were losing their truth: claims that have been enshrined in textbooks are suddenly unprovable. This phenomenon doesn’t yet have an official name, but it’s occurring across a wide range of fields, from psychology to ecology.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Also (no relation):<br />
<a href="http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2012/05/great-idea.html" rel="nofollow">Coyoteblog: Great Idea &#8212; The Reproduciblity Project</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Gary		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/04/overweight-good-thin-bad/#comment-496961</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 04:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23438#comment-496961</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The study is silly because it&#039;s based on the BMI (body mass index), which is junk since it&#039;s a) heavily biased in favor of skinny, and b) simplistic because it&#039;s based on height and weight only (ie a proxy for body fat that is only vaguely approximate).

I&#039;m 5&#039;11&quot; and weigh about 190 lbs. This gives me a BMI score of about 26.5, putting me in the &quot;overweight&quot; range (BMI of 25 - 30). So far so good; I could stand to lose 10-15 lbs. But if you look closely at the &quot;normal&quot; range (BMI of 18.5 - 25), you start to see some very strange things: to make the low end of &quot;normal,&quot; I would have to weigh a mere 132.5 lbs! This is not &quot;normal&quot; for a 5&#039;11&quot; man (or woman). This is approaching &quot;concentration camp survivor.&quot; If we go to the middle of the &quot;normal&quot; range (BMI of 21.75), we get a weight of 155.8 lbs for a 5&#039;11&quot; man. Though not nearly so extreme, this number is still quite low. Through heroic dieting and exercise, I might be able to get down to 165, but probably no lower.

Anyway, my point is that about 65% of the &quot;normal&quot; category is actually skinny to quite emaciated, which is not healthy. So the study compared people who are a little overweight against the &quot;normal&quot; category and found that the former &quot;have a 6 per cent lower rate of premature death from all causes.&quot; No surprise at all: this is because their supposed ideal, the &quot;normal&quot; category, consists mostly of people who are too thin, many of whom are grossly underweight. The problem is that the BMI categories are stupid.

Below is a table showing the weight range corresponding to the bottom half (BMI of 18.5 - 21.75) of the &quot;normal&quot; BMI category for various heights:

5&#039;2&quot; : 101.1 - 118.8 lbs
5&#039;4&quot; : 107.7 - 126.6 lbs
5&#039;6&quot; : 114.5 - 134.6 lbs
5&#039;8&quot; : 121.6 - 142.9 lbs
5&#039;10&quot;: 128.8 - 151.4 lbs
6&#039;0&quot; : 136.3 - 160.2 lbs
6&#039;2&quot; : 144.0 - 169.3 lbs
6&#039;4&quot; : 151.8 - 178.5 lbs

Does this look &quot;normal&quot; or &quot;ideal&quot; to you?

[Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_mass_index]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The study is silly because it&#8217;s based on the BMI (body mass index), which is junk since it&#8217;s a) heavily biased in favor of skinny, and b) simplistic because it&#8217;s based on height and weight only (ie a proxy for body fat that is only vaguely approximate).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m 5&#8217;11&#8221; and weigh about 190 lbs. This gives me a BMI score of about 26.5, putting me in the &#8220;overweight&#8221; range (BMI of 25 &#8211; 30). So far so good; I could stand to lose 10-15 lbs. But if you look closely at the &#8220;normal&#8221; range (BMI of 18.5 &#8211; 25), you start to see some very strange things: to make the low end of &#8220;normal,&#8221; I would have to weigh a mere 132.5 lbs! This is not &#8220;normal&#8221; for a 5&#8217;11&#8221; man (or woman). This is approaching &#8220;concentration camp survivor.&#8221; If we go to the middle of the &#8220;normal&#8221; range (BMI of 21.75), we get a weight of 155.8 lbs for a 5&#8217;11&#8221; man. Though not nearly so extreme, this number is still quite low. Through heroic dieting and exercise, I might be able to get down to 165, but probably no lower.</p>
<p>Anyway, my point is that about 65% of the &#8220;normal&#8221; category is actually skinny to quite emaciated, which is not healthy. So the study compared people who are a little overweight against the &#8220;normal&#8221; category and found that the former &#8220;have a 6 per cent lower rate of premature death from all causes.&#8221; No surprise at all: this is because their supposed ideal, the &#8220;normal&#8221; category, consists mostly of people who are too thin, many of whom are grossly underweight. The problem is that the BMI categories are stupid.</p>
<p>Below is a table showing the weight range corresponding to the bottom half (BMI of 18.5 &#8211; 21.75) of the &#8220;normal&#8221; BMI category for various heights:</p>
<p>5&#8217;2&#8243; : 101.1 &#8211; 118.8 lbs<br />
5&#8217;4&#8243; : 107.7 &#8211; 126.6 lbs<br />
5&#8217;6&#8243; : 114.5 &#8211; 134.6 lbs<br />
5&#8217;8&#8243; : 121.6 &#8211; 142.9 lbs<br />
5&#8217;10&#8221;: 128.8 &#8211; 151.4 lbs<br />
6&#8217;0&#8243; : 136.3 &#8211; 160.2 lbs<br />
6&#8217;2&#8243; : 144.0 &#8211; 169.3 lbs<br />
6&#8217;4&#8243; : 151.8 &#8211; 178.5 lbs</p>
<p>Does this look &#8220;normal&#8221; or &#8220;ideal&#8221; to you?</p>
<p>[Source: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_mass_index%5D" rel="nofollow ugc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_mass_index%5D</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Ed Bonderenka		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/04/overweight-good-thin-bad/#comment-495870</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ed Bonderenka]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 14:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23438#comment-495870</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am 5&#039;11&quot;.
I weigh between 210 and 220.
For years I was 150 and everyone said I was too skinny.
I&#039;d feel good at 200.
My doctor told me that would still leave me obese.
It is to laugh.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am 5&#8217;11&#8221;.<br />
I weigh between 210 and 220.<br />
For years I was 150 and everyone said I was too skinny.<br />
I&#8217;d feel good at 200.<br />
My doctor told me that would still leave me obese.<br />
It is to laugh.</p>
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		<title>
		By: expat		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/04/overweight-good-thin-bad/#comment-495830</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[expat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 13:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23438#comment-495830</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think there are researchers who actually study things and try to figure out what happens in the body and there are data miners and numbers crunchers who look for correlations and try to sell them as facts. At best these correlations should be used as hints of possible factors influencing a phenomena. They should not be sold to a scientifically illiterate public.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there are researchers who actually study things and try to figure out what happens in the body and there are data miners and numbers crunchers who look for correlations and try to sell them as facts. At best these correlations should be used as hints of possible factors influencing a phenomena. They should not be sold to a scientifically illiterate public.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/04/overweight-good-thin-bad/#comment-495664</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 06:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23438#comment-495664</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Occam&#039;s Beard: oh, I agree that most medical research is very poor.  That&#039;s why I wrote, &quot;It seems to me that the biggest besetting sin of medical researchers, doctors, and diet gurus on the topic of weight is that they pretend to know much more than they do.&quot;

I was just pointing out that the authors of the study did think of those issues, and attempted to address them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Occam&#8217;s Beard: oh, I agree that most medical research is very poor.  That&#8217;s why I wrote, &#8220;It seems to me that the biggest besetting sin of medical researchers, doctors, and diet gurus on the topic of weight is that they pretend to know much more than they do.&#8221;</p>
<p>I was just pointing out that the authors of the study did think of those issues, and attempted to address them.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Occam's Beard		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/04/overweight-good-thin-bad/#comment-495655</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Occam's Beard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 06:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23438#comment-495655</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[neo, 90+ % of biomedical research is crap. See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0020124&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Why Most Published Research Findings Are False&lt;/a&gt; for substantiation of my empirical observation. 

Ironically, anyone disputing the conclusion of this paper would be validating my original proposition that biomedical research is inherently untrustworthy.

Also, note that &quot;little support&quot;  no support. So, a modest proposal: if this paper turns out to be inherently flawed, which I think is more likely than not, we execute the authors. I, for one, would not offer them life insurance.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>neo, 90+ % of biomedical research is crap. See <a href="http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0020124" rel="nofollow">Why Most Published Research Findings Are False</a> for substantiation of my empirical observation. </p>
<p>Ironically, anyone disputing the conclusion of this paper would be validating my original proposition that biomedical research is inherently untrustworthy.</p>
<p>Also, note that &#8220;little support&#8221;  no support. So, a modest proposal: if this paper turns out to be inherently flawed, which I think is more likely than not, we execute the authors. I, for one, would not offer them life insurance.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/04/overweight-good-thin-bad/#comment-495652</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 05:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23438#comment-495652</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Occam&#039;s  Beard: supposedly, &lt;a href=&quot;http://reason.com/blog/2013/01/02/more-evidence-that-a-healthy-normal-weig&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;they have&lt;/a&gt; controlled for it:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Do thinner people have a higher mortality rate because they are more likely to smoke or because they have lost weight due to illness? Flegal and her co-authors say the data &quot;provide little support&quot; for those explanations. &lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Occam&#8217;s  Beard: supposedly, <a href="http://reason.com/blog/2013/01/02/more-evidence-that-a-healthy-normal-weig" rel="nofollow">they have</a> controlled for it:</p>
<blockquote><p>Do thinner people have a higher mortality rate because they are more likely to smoke or because they have lost weight due to illness? Flegal and her co-authors say the data &#8220;provide little support&#8221; for those explanations. </p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: Occam's Beard		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/04/overweight-good-thin-bad/#comment-495623</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Occam's Beard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 05:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23438#comment-495623</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;That could be a significant part of the answer right there. Smokers and drug abusers are often underweight.&lt;/i&gt;

As are those dying of AIDS or cancer. Did they control for that? I&#039;m betting &quot;no.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>That could be a significant part of the answer right there. Smokers and drug abusers are often underweight.</i></p>
<p>As are those dying of AIDS or cancer. Did they control for that? I&#8217;m betting &#8220;no.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Occam's Beard		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/04/overweight-good-thin-bad/#comment-495621</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Occam's Beard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 05:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23438#comment-495621</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Epidemiological studies are notoriously (in the scientific community) lousy. My favorite: the one that drinking is good for you. Much as I&#039;d like to believe that, being three sheets to the wind right now, the small but noticeable flaw in that study turned out to be that it failed to take into account that people at death&#039;s door often don&#039;t drink because bar service in ICUs is appallingly bad.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Epidemiological studies are notoriously (in the scientific community) lousy. My favorite: the one that drinking is good for you. Much as I&#8217;d like to believe that, being three sheets to the wind right now, the small but noticeable flaw in that study turned out to be that it failed to take into account that people at death&#8217;s door often don&#8217;t drink because bar service in ICUs is appallingly bad.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gary Rosen		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/04/overweight-good-thin-bad/#comment-495616</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Rosen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 05:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23438#comment-495616</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;does not control for factors like smoking or substance abuse&quot;

That could be a significant part of the answer right there.  Smokers and drug abusers are often underweight.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;does not control for factors like smoking or substance abuse&#8221;</p>
<p>That could be a significant part of the answer right there.  Smokers and drug abusers are often underweight.</p>
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