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	Comments on: There are more things&#8230;	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/03/there-are-more-things/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/03/there-are-more-things/#comment-495585</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 03:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23459#comment-495585</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Steve.
Thanks for the book.
I&#039;ve been thinking about the mousetrap that the ID folks talk about in irreducible complexity.  Getting to life would be like putting the pieces of a million mousetraps in a bag and rolling it down a mountain--to simulate energy.  You go to the bag and see if there are any complete mousetraps. Probably not, so you take the bag back up the mountain.  After a couple of thousand  attempts, you find a couple of pieces hooked together in promising conformation. So back up you go and when the bag is down, the piece is busted up again.  So back up the mountain.
Eventually, the evolutionists tell us, there will be a functioning mousetrap in the bag.

Could be everybody&#039;s listening on account of nobody wants to draw attention to themselves.  It&#039;s one thing to want to be Cortez, but can you be sure you won&#039;t be Montezuma?  But there was a Cortez so maybe....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve.<br />
Thanks for the book.<br />
I&#8217;ve been thinking about the mousetrap that the ID folks talk about in irreducible complexity.  Getting to life would be like putting the pieces of a million mousetraps in a bag and rolling it down a mountain&#8211;to simulate energy.  You go to the bag and see if there are any complete mousetraps. Probably not, so you take the bag back up the mountain.  After a couple of thousand  attempts, you find a couple of pieces hooked together in promising conformation. So back up you go and when the bag is down, the piece is busted up again.  So back up the mountain.<br />
Eventually, the evolutionists tell us, there will be a functioning mousetrap in the bag.</p>
<p>Could be everybody&#8217;s listening on account of nobody wants to draw attention to themselves.  It&#8217;s one thing to want to be Cortez, but can you be sure you won&#8217;t be Montezuma?  But there was a Cortez so maybe&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve D		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/03/there-are-more-things/#comment-494823</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve D]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 04:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23459#comment-494823</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[‘Not sure some other society thinks the same.’
What if we are all listening (because it’s easier) and no one is emitting (because it’s expensive)?
I think our inadvertent radio signals die out to where they are indistinguishable to background noise after about 100 light years. 
I still strongly believe though that sapient life must be very rare. The chances are we may never contact another race.
‘After that, evolution is a given and not even hard to understand.’
Read ‘Genetic Takeover’ by A. G. Cairns-Smith in which the author describes a thermodynamically and chemically plausible way for organic life to originate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>‘Not sure some other society thinks the same.’<br />
What if we are all listening (because it’s easier) and no one is emitting (because it’s expensive)?<br />
I think our inadvertent radio signals die out to where they are indistinguishable to background noise after about 100 light years.<br />
I still strongly believe though that sapient life must be very rare. The chances are we may never contact another race.<br />
‘After that, evolution is a given and not even hard to understand.’<br />
Read ‘Genetic Takeover’ by A. G. Cairns-Smith in which the author describes a thermodynamically and chemically plausible way for organic life to originate.</p>
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		By: Good Ole Charlie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/03/there-are-more-things/#comment-494798</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Good Ole Charlie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 03:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23459#comment-494798</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One favorite ploy is that God - by definition - is eternal.
Newer hypotheses in cosmology assume a &quot;multiverse&quot; which also posits The Eternal which in this latest hypothesis (note I am NOT saying &quot;Theory&quot;) is an eternal multiverse.
Supporting this latest conjecture is Statistical Mechanics (aka a Thermodynamic based Theory [in the classic sense]) and its interpretation of Entropy as a statistical phenomenon.
If a God can be eternal, so can a multiverse...
&quot;You pays yer money and you takes yer choice&quot;.  And so it goes...

PS:  Theory is a set of hypotheses which collects empirical data that can be interpreted as supporting the hypothesis set.  Multiverse concepts are not quite up to Theory status, but more than hypothesis.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One favorite ploy is that God &#8211; by definition &#8211; is eternal.<br />
Newer hypotheses in cosmology assume a &#8220;multiverse&#8221; which also posits The Eternal which in this latest hypothesis (note I am NOT saying &#8220;Theory&#8221;) is an eternal multiverse.<br />
Supporting this latest conjecture is Statistical Mechanics (aka a Thermodynamic based Theory [in the classic sense]) and its interpretation of Entropy as a statistical phenomenon.<br />
If a God can be eternal, so can a multiverse&#8230;<br />
&#8220;You pays yer money and you takes yer choice&#8221;.  And so it goes&#8230;</p>
<p>PS:  Theory is a set of hypotheses which collects empirical data that can be interpreted as supporting the hypothesis set.  Multiverse concepts are not quite up to Theory status, but more than hypothesis.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/03/there-are-more-things/#comment-494797</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 03:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23459#comment-494797</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Bupkis,

Good essay.  I&#039;ve been thinking of how to make a case that irreducible complexity is irrefutable.  Sort of as if I were a lawyer--perish the thought--getting paid for it.
Howsomever, the evolutionists are stuck with the inevitability of one last molecule getting stuck into an unimaginably complex series of molecules and turning it from organic chemistry to life.  As one theologian said, you can have evolution.  I&#039;ve got the last molecule getting slotted in just right, by God.
After that, evolution is a given and not even hard to understand.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bupkis,</p>
<p>Good essay.  I&#8217;ve been thinking of how to make a case that irreducible complexity is irrefutable.  Sort of as if I were a lawyer&#8211;perish the thought&#8211;getting paid for it.<br />
Howsomever, the evolutionists are stuck with the inevitability of one last molecule getting stuck into an unimaginably complex series of molecules and turning it from organic chemistry to life.  As one theologian said, you can have evolution.  I&#8217;ve got the last molecule getting slotted in just right, by God.<br />
After that, evolution is a given and not even hard to understand.</p>
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		By: IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/03/there-are-more-things/#comment-494785</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 02:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23459#comment-494785</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[}}} &lt;i&gt;The evolutionists, in order to avoid divine beginnings, are more or less trapped into insisting that life cannot not happen. Must happen.&lt;/i&gt;

The Creationists generally fail to grasp that their beliefs directly undermine their own faith in God.

Bear with me:

It seems inherently obvious that, if God wanted us to KNOW He existed, that He could, quite easily, part the skies above us, reach down with His Godly Hand, twit us aside the head, and say &quot;I&#039;m HERE ya big dummy!&quot;

He does not -- so clearly, He wishes -- for whatever of His reasons, for us to BELIEVE based on FAITH alone, not on KNOWLEDGE.

So, assuming God to be COMPETENT, He would not have created a universe which required Him to exist in order for IT to exist. By that we would KNOW He exists, and not need Faith.

Ergo -- there &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;must&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; be an alternative explanation which lies within the bounds of man&#039;s understanding, &lt;b&gt;one not involving God&lt;/b&gt; -- for why and how the universe came to be. You cannot Prove God by reason and logic and science.

To presume anything else is to presume God is incompetent, &lt;b&gt;that He left this stupid loophole there which proves His Existence&lt;/b&gt;.

Our theories of stellar cosmology, of evolution, and so forth, are the current &quot;best guesses&quot; as to what that built-in alternative explanation is. 

They don&#039;t say anything about the existence of God -- because they are not related to FAITH  but to observable FACTS and reasonable deductions made from those.

Faith and Science do not reject or refute one another -- they COMPLEMENT one another -- each deals with things outside the others&#039; arena of expertise. Some people Just Don&#039;t Get This.

&quot;Creation &lt;b&gt;Science&lt;/b&gt;&quot; is a misnomer and a contradiction in terms. Creationism is about FAITH, not about SCIENCE, and anyone attempting to retrofit or force-feed it into a scientific form &lt;b&gt;does not grasp what SCIENCE is at all&lt;/b&gt;.

Evolution does not say one solitary thing about the existence of God. It merely says that either God made things &quot;this way&quot;, or, alternately, that He created everything with evidence to that end &lt;i&gt;built into it&lt;/i&gt;.

As far as what evolution says about the impossibility of life, that&#039;s a ridiculous assertion based on a failure to understand both science AND the mechanism being described.

My favorite is the million monkeys analogy, claiming life is too improbable to exist.

It fails to grasp that the million monkeys analogy is VERY high probability if you apply a CORRECTIVE mechanism to edit the monkeys&#039; failures out -- that is, if they type something which is NOT Shakespeare, and the typewriter backs up and eliminates it, then the time it takes them to write Shakespeare becomes surprisingly short.

And evolution&#039;s processes are that corrective mechanism.

In fact, there are ample examples of how crappy things become &quot;standard issue&quot; because of bad but &quot;acceptible&quot; design choices getting locked in early on.

Human feet are designed to be used as monkeys use them, sitting on your haunches using your hands for balance a large percent of the time. By walking upright, &quot;flatfootedness&quot; becomes a problem which it is not for monkeys.

The human sinuses, due to our postures, and our habit of sleeping on our backs, lead to the sinuses draining inside, rather than outside of the body. This makes humans subject to an array of respiratory ailments that no other species is subject to.

The squid&#039;s eye is a masterpiece of functional design, and puts the one spread throughout most of the planet&#039;s species to shame. Yet that design is &quot;good enough&quot;, and so became the predominant one due to &quot;early adoption&quot;.

Did God make the world? I assume so. But I don&#039;t have any idea HOW he did it, nor does anyone else. But the evidence HE placed there is that it was done by the mechanism of evolution, even if we don&#039;t fully grasp the entirety of it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>}}} <i>The evolutionists, in order to avoid divine beginnings, are more or less trapped into insisting that life cannot not happen. Must happen.</i></p>
<p>The Creationists generally fail to grasp that their beliefs directly undermine their own faith in God.</p>
<p>Bear with me:</p>
<p>It seems inherently obvious that, if God wanted us to KNOW He existed, that He could, quite easily, part the skies above us, reach down with His Godly Hand, twit us aside the head, and say &#8220;I&#8217;m HERE ya big dummy!&#8221;</p>
<p>He does not &#8212; so clearly, He wishes &#8212; for whatever of His reasons, for us to BELIEVE based on FAITH alone, not on KNOWLEDGE.</p>
<p>So, assuming God to be COMPETENT, He would not have created a universe which required Him to exist in order for IT to exist. By that we would KNOW He exists, and not need Faith.</p>
<p>Ergo &#8212; there <i><b>must</b></i> be an alternative explanation which lies within the bounds of man&#8217;s understanding, <b>one not involving God</b> &#8212; for why and how the universe came to be. You cannot Prove God by reason and logic and science.</p>
<p>To presume anything else is to presume God is incompetent, <b>that He left this stupid loophole there which proves His Existence</b>.</p>
<p>Our theories of stellar cosmology, of evolution, and so forth, are the current &#8220;best guesses&#8221; as to what that built-in alternative explanation is. </p>
<p>They don&#8217;t say anything about the existence of God &#8212; because they are not related to FAITH  but to observable FACTS and reasonable deductions made from those.</p>
<p>Faith and Science do not reject or refute one another &#8212; they COMPLEMENT one another &#8212; each deals with things outside the others&#8217; arena of expertise. Some people Just Don&#8217;t Get This.</p>
<p>&#8220;Creation <b>Science</b>&#8221; is a misnomer and a contradiction in terms. Creationism is about FAITH, not about SCIENCE, and anyone attempting to retrofit or force-feed it into a scientific form <b>does not grasp what SCIENCE is at all</b>.</p>
<p>Evolution does not say one solitary thing about the existence of God. It merely says that either God made things &#8220;this way&#8221;, or, alternately, that He created everything with evidence to that end <i>built into it</i>.</p>
<p>As far as what evolution says about the impossibility of life, that&#8217;s a ridiculous assertion based on a failure to understand both science AND the mechanism being described.</p>
<p>My favorite is the million monkeys analogy, claiming life is too improbable to exist.</p>
<p>It fails to grasp that the million monkeys analogy is VERY high probability if you apply a CORRECTIVE mechanism to edit the monkeys&#8217; failures out &#8212; that is, if they type something which is NOT Shakespeare, and the typewriter backs up and eliminates it, then the time it takes them to write Shakespeare becomes surprisingly short.</p>
<p>And evolution&#8217;s processes are that corrective mechanism.</p>
<p>In fact, there are ample examples of how crappy things become &#8220;standard issue&#8221; because of bad but &#8220;acceptible&#8221; design choices getting locked in early on.</p>
<p>Human feet are designed to be used as monkeys use them, sitting on your haunches using your hands for balance a large percent of the time. By walking upright, &#8220;flatfootedness&#8221; becomes a problem which it is not for monkeys.</p>
<p>The human sinuses, due to our postures, and our habit of sleeping on our backs, lead to the sinuses draining inside, rather than outside of the body. This makes humans subject to an array of respiratory ailments that no other species is subject to.</p>
<p>The squid&#8217;s eye is a masterpiece of functional design, and puts the one spread throughout most of the planet&#8217;s species to shame. Yet that design is &#8220;good enough&#8221;, and so became the predominant one due to &#8220;early adoption&#8221;.</p>
<p>Did God make the world? I assume so. But I don&#8217;t have any idea HOW he did it, nor does anyone else. But the evidence HE placed there is that it was done by the mechanism of evolution, even if we don&#8217;t fully grasp the entirety of it.</p>
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		By: IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/03/there-are-more-things/#comment-494770</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 02:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23459#comment-494770</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[}}}} &lt;i&gt;So in the future, when Earth’s Sun begins to run out of fuel after another 4 billion years, any intelligent life still on the planet would do well to...&lt;/i&gt;

If we haven&#039;t evolved by that point to not being planet-bound, we&#039;re doomed anyway.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>}}}} <i>So in the future, when Earth’s Sun begins to run out of fuel after another 4 billion years, any intelligent life still on the planet would do well to&#8230;</i></p>
<p>If we haven&#8217;t evolved by that point to not being planet-bound, we&#8217;re doomed anyway.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/03/there-are-more-things/#comment-494756</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 01:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23459#comment-494756</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Steve.
If I get SETI, they&#039;re expecting some powerful beam aimed at us.
Leaked electromagnetic radiation from all the electric stuff we--or anybody else does-- spreading out in all directions, weakening by the inverse square law is not, afaik, what they&#039;re looking for, because it would be far too faint.
As to why a beam is expected, I think they think an advanced society would see Sol with its planets in the golden zone and figure it would be worth a few megawatts to see what&#039;s happening.  Conveniently, it would also be more detectable.  Not sure some other society thinks the same.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve.<br />
If I get SETI, they&#8217;re expecting some powerful beam aimed at us.<br />
Leaked electromagnetic radiation from all the electric stuff we&#8211;or anybody else does&#8211; spreading out in all directions, weakening by the inverse square law is not, afaik, what they&#8217;re looking for, because it would be far too faint.<br />
As to why a beam is expected, I think they think an advanced society would see Sol with its planets in the golden zone and figure it would be worth a few megawatts to see what&#8217;s happening.  Conveniently, it would also be more detectable.  Not sure some other society thinks the same.</p>
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		By: Steve D		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/03/there-are-more-things/#comment-494751</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve D]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 01:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23459#comment-494751</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&#039;SETI’s come up empty.&#039;

Interesting isn&#039;t it? This is already putting some key constraints on the likelyhood of finding sentient life.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;SETI’s come up empty.&#8217;</p>
<p>Interesting isn&#8217;t it? This is already putting some key constraints on the likelyhood of finding sentient life.</p>
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		By: Sam L.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/03/there-are-more-things/#comment-494712</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sam L.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 23:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23459#comment-494712</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[T Says:
January 3rd, 2013 at 2:17 pm

“intelligent life is very hard to come by.”

Amen!



Near zero in D.C.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T Says:<br />
January 3rd, 2013 at 2:17 pm</p>
<p>“intelligent life is very hard to come by.”</p>
<p>Amen!</p>
<p>Near zero in D.C.</p>
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		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2013/01/03/there-are-more-things/#comment-494694</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 22:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23459#comment-494694</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Aggie.
I know about the speed, etc.  However, keep in mind that our world has been around for 4.5 billion years.  In the evolution that is us, do you think a half billion years, or maybe fifty million from the first one-celled animal to us might have been avoided due to a favorable circumstance?
Hell, even half a million would take our probes someplace where somebody might take an interest, and theirs here.
Or, if some folks are right, tech societies don&#039;t survive to travel the stars. 
SETI&#039;s come up empty. 
I&#039;d like to know  whether what we leak into space would be detectable at, say, six light years with, to be generous, equipment a hundred years better than our current stuff.  We are not, afaik, masering anything at a particular spot, are we?
And figure arcing with a regular repetition would be the first radiation looking artificial, so would that be just shy of two hundred years ago?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aggie.<br />
I know about the speed, etc.  However, keep in mind that our world has been around for 4.5 billion years.  In the evolution that is us, do you think a half billion years, or maybe fifty million from the first one-celled animal to us might have been avoided due to a favorable circumstance?<br />
Hell, even half a million would take our probes someplace where somebody might take an interest, and theirs here.<br />
Or, if some folks are right, tech societies don&#8217;t survive to travel the stars.<br />
SETI&#8217;s come up empty.<br />
I&#8217;d like to know  whether what we leak into space would be detectable at, say, six light years with, to be generous, equipment a hundred years better than our current stuff.  We are not, afaik, masering anything at a particular spot, are we?<br />
And figure arcing with a regular repetition would be the first radiation looking artificial, so would that be just shy of two hundred years ago?</p>
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