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	Comments on: Nile Gardiner is wrong&#8212;&#8220;Benghazi bungling&#8221; is not a &#8220;disaster,&#8221; although it should be	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/12/01/nile-gardiner-is-wrong-benghazi-bungling-is-not-a-disaster-although-it-should-be/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		By: Hillary Clinton &#124; lies &#124; Benghazi &#124; moral relativism		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/12/01/nile-gardiner-is-wrong-benghazi-bungling-is-not-a-disaster-although-it-should-be/#comment-932578</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hillary Clinton &#124; lies &#124; Benghazi &#124; moral relativism]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22396#comment-932578</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] headlines in the MSM at that. But there are also a lot of people like the friend I described in this post from December of [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] headlines in the MSM at that. But there are also a lot of people like the friend I described in this post from December of [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: I Made a New Word LXI &#124; Rotten Chestnuts		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/12/01/nile-gardiner-is-wrong-benghazi-bungling-is-not-a-disaster-although-it-should-be/#comment-514050</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[I Made a New Word LXI &#124; Rotten Chestnuts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2013 16:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22396#comment-514050</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Many among us have been noticing that, while a lot of widely-known events are game changers and should not be &#8212; in fact, shouldn&#8217;t even be widely-known &#8212; there are other such events that are not game-changers although they should be. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Many among us have been noticing that, while a lot of widely-known events are game changers and should not be &#8212; in fact, shouldn&#8217;t even be widely-known &#8212; there are other such events that are not game-changers although they should be. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: House of Eratosthenes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/12/01/nile-gardiner-is-wrong-benghazi-bungling-is-not-a-disaster-although-it-should-be/#comment-514027</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[House of Eratosthenes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2013 16:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22396#comment-514027</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Many among us have been noticing that, while a lot of widely-known events are game changers and should not be &#8212; in fact, shouldn&#8217;t even be widely-known &#8212; there are other such events that are not game-changers although they should be. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Many among us have been noticing that, while a lot of widely-known events are game changers and should not be &#8212; in fact, shouldn&#8217;t even be widely-known &#8212; there are other such events that are not game-changers although they should be. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/12/01/nile-gardiner-is-wrong-benghazi-bungling-is-not-a-disaster-although-it-should-be/#comment-472487</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 17:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22396#comment-472487</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Add: As far as the legality of OIF, there is no doubt that OIF was legal in terms of American law. 

The legal controversy is over international law, which is debateable because the area of law is so murky. Suffice to say that OIF is better legally grounded in terms of international law than our Balkans intervention.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Add: As far as the legality of OIF, there is no doubt that OIF was legal in terms of American law. </p>
<p>The legal controversy is over international law, which is debateable because the area of law is so murky. Suffice to say that OIF is better legally grounded in terms of international law than our Balkans intervention.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/12/01/nile-gardiner-is-wrong-benghazi-bungling-is-not-a-disaster-although-it-should-be/#comment-472474</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 17:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22396#comment-472474</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Zachriel,

By 1998 and thereafter, our only choices on Iraq were the status quo or maintain and continue indefinitely a harmful, costly, vilified, and crumbling sanctions/containment mission that had no end in sight. Or alternative one, give up the mission altogether and restore a non-complaint Iraq with a victorious Saddam - the preferred alternative by OIF opponents. Or alternative two, give Saddam a final chance to comply and follow through if he failed - which is what we did.

&quot;Each party is responsible for their own actions.&quot;

Keep in mind that the actual war to depose Saddam&#039;s regime was historically fast and low in casualties. In the post-war, our troops were in a security and stabilization posture and prepared to transition to a nation-building mode, akin to our nation-building and protection missions in Europe and Asia. In that golden hour, the international community was lined up ready to assist in the nation-building of Iraq. Then the mass-murdering bombings and assassinations started. The insurgents and terrorists are responsible for tearing apart the peace-building after the war.

The post-war death and destruction you pin on the US were caused by terrorists and insurgents, while US and Iraqi forces were doing their best to protect Iraq and the Iraqi people. We were responsible for not abandoning Iraq as many others did.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zachriel,</p>
<p>By 1998 and thereafter, our only choices on Iraq were the status quo or maintain and continue indefinitely a harmful, costly, vilified, and crumbling sanctions/containment mission that had no end in sight. Or alternative one, give up the mission altogether and restore a non-complaint Iraq with a victorious Saddam &#8211; the preferred alternative by OIF opponents. Or alternative two, give Saddam a final chance to comply and follow through if he failed &#8211; which is what we did.</p>
<p>&#8220;Each party is responsible for their own actions.&#8221;</p>
<p>Keep in mind that the actual war to depose Saddam&#8217;s regime was historically fast and low in casualties. In the post-war, our troops were in a security and stabilization posture and prepared to transition to a nation-building mode, akin to our nation-building and protection missions in Europe and Asia. In that golden hour, the international community was lined up ready to assist in the nation-building of Iraq. Then the mass-murdering bombings and assassinations started. The insurgents and terrorists are responsible for tearing apart the peace-building after the war.</p>
<p>The post-war death and destruction you pin on the US were caused by terrorists and insurgents, while US and Iraqi forces were doing their best to protect Iraq and the Iraqi people. We were responsible for not abandoning Iraq as many others did.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/12/01/nile-gardiner-is-wrong-benghazi-bungling-is-not-a-disaster-although-it-should-be/#comment-472466</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 17:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22396#comment-472466</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neo: &quot;I don’t see Obama as sharing Bush’s foreign policy goals at all.&quot;

Here I would differentiate between Obama&#039;s stated/ostensible and his effective/practical foreign policy. Obama&#039;s stated/ostensible foreign policy follows in Bush&#039;s footsteps. But the means Obama employs and does not employ result in a very different effective/practical foreign policy than Bush.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo: &#8220;I don’t see Obama as sharing Bush’s foreign policy goals at all.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here I would differentiate between Obama&#8217;s stated/ostensible and his effective/practical foreign policy. Obama&#8217;s stated/ostensible foreign policy follows in Bush&#8217;s footsteps. But the means Obama employs and does not employ result in a very different effective/practical foreign policy than Bush.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/12/01/nile-gardiner-is-wrong-benghazi-bungling-is-not-a-disaster-although-it-should-be/#comment-472463</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 16:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22396#comment-472463</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[thomass: &quot;I’d add that we finished invading Iraq because they were violating the terms of our cease fire agreement from the first Iraq war.&quot;

True. A belated thank you for the add. I tend to fold the ceasefire into the subsequent UNSC resolutions, but the resolutions followed upon the ceasefire.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thomass: &#8220;I’d add that we finished invading Iraq because they were violating the terms of our cease fire agreement from the first Iraq war.&#8221;</p>
<p>True. A belated thank you for the add. I tend to fold the ceasefire into the subsequent UNSC resolutions, but the resolutions followed upon the ceasefire.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/12/01/nile-gardiner-is-wrong-benghazi-bungling-is-not-a-disaster-although-it-should-be/#comment-470649</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J. formerly Jimmy J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 18:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22396#comment-470649</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A bit late to offer this, but I&#039;ve been trying to convince a liberal friend (former squadronmate)  why Benghazi needs answers. This is my argument:

&quot;Unfortunately, the real information will probably never be revealed. If it is, it will be after several months (or years) have passed. And it will not be covered by the MSM in any  meaningful way. 

Other questions we need answers to are these: Why were  Admiral Gaouette (Commander of Carrier Strike Group -3) and General Ham (Commander of AFRICOM) both relieved of duty shortly after  the Sept. 11 attack at Benghazi? 

This is the speculation: Both Gaouette and Ham received the same requests for assistance that the NSC was receiving. Ham was ready to send forces in assistance but was told to stand down. (Who gave that order?)  His response was to screw it, he was going to help anyhow. Within 30 seconds to a minute after making the move to respond, his second in command apprehended General Ham and told him that he was now relieved of his command.
 
Adm. Gaouette was relieved for  &#039;allegations of inappropriate leadership judgment.&#039;  It is believed the truth is  that Admiral Gaouette’s firing by President Obama was due to this strike force commander disobeying orders when he ordered his forces on 11 September to assist and provide intelligence for American military forces ordered into action by General Ham. 
 
It is believed by me and many others that  Obama’s &#039;greatest fear&#039; during the 11 September terrorist attack  in Benghazi was that a strong US Military response would hurt his reelection chances. He believes the American people&#039;s appetite for war has all but disappeared, and he would also be open to attacks from his far-left base who remain firmly opposed to further US military actions in the Middle East.  And that is why he did not order relief for those fighting for their lives at Benghazi.  If true, that is disgusting to this veteran
 
The government is supposed to work for us. We deserve to know the complete facts behind this tragedy, including who ordered a stand down and why two high ranking military officers were relieved of command.&quot;

My friend grudgingly found this to be worthy of a Congressional investigation into Benghazi.  It&#039;s why I keep trying to change  minds.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bit late to offer this, but I&#8217;ve been trying to convince a liberal friend (former squadronmate)  why Benghazi needs answers. This is my argument:</p>
<p>&#8220;Unfortunately, the real information will probably never be revealed. If it is, it will be after several months (or years) have passed. And it will not be covered by the MSM in any  meaningful way. </p>
<p>Other questions we need answers to are these: Why were  Admiral Gaouette (Commander of Carrier Strike Group -3) and General Ham (Commander of AFRICOM) both relieved of duty shortly after  the Sept. 11 attack at Benghazi? </p>
<p>This is the speculation: Both Gaouette and Ham received the same requests for assistance that the NSC was receiving. Ham was ready to send forces in assistance but was told to stand down. (Who gave that order?)  His response was to screw it, he was going to help anyhow. Within 30 seconds to a minute after making the move to respond, his second in command apprehended General Ham and told him that he was now relieved of his command.</p>
<p>Adm. Gaouette was relieved for  &#8216;allegations of inappropriate leadership judgment.&#8217;  It is believed the truth is  that Admiral Gaouette’s firing by President Obama was due to this strike force commander disobeying orders when he ordered his forces on 11 September to assist and provide intelligence for American military forces ordered into action by General Ham. </p>
<p>It is believed by me and many others that  Obama’s &#8216;greatest fear&#8217; during the 11 September terrorist attack  in Benghazi was that a strong US Military response would hurt his reelection chances. He believes the American people&#8217;s appetite for war has all but disappeared, and he would also be open to attacks from his far-left base who remain firmly opposed to further US military actions in the Middle East.  And that is why he did not order relief for those fighting for their lives at Benghazi.  If true, that is disgusting to this veteran</p>
<p>The government is supposed to work for us. We deserve to know the complete facts behind this tragedy, including who ordered a stand down and why two high ranking military officers were relieved of command.&#8221;</p>
<p>My friend grudgingly found this to be worthy of a Congressional investigation into Benghazi.  It&#8217;s why I keep trying to change  minds.</p>
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		By: KLSmith		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/12/01/nile-gardiner-is-wrong-benghazi-bungling-is-not-a-disaster-although-it-should-be/#comment-470448</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KLSmith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 08:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22396#comment-470448</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[rickl: thanks for the input. I&#039;m thinking I&#039;ll just wait until around the 4th of July.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rickl: thanks for the input. I&#8217;m thinking I&#8217;ll just wait until around the 4th of July.</p>
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		<title>
		By: parker		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/12/01/nile-gardiner-is-wrong-benghazi-bungling-is-not-a-disaster-although-it-should-be/#comment-470344</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[parker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 05:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22396#comment-470344</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Zachriel is a lame pseudonym, and you are a lame poser. Here, you are indeed in deep water many fathoms over your head.  Trust me on this, I often have to tread water to stay afloat at neoneocon. The regulars here are smarter than you or me.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KulSQjjQVPE

We all see right through you.  Grow up, learn a skill, get a job, prosper, find a mate, make children who make grandchildren, grow old and content, and stop being a total jerk.  You only get to go around once and then you die.  Die stupid and dogmatic or die free. Its your choice.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zachriel is a lame pseudonym, and you are a lame poser. Here, you are indeed in deep water many fathoms over your head.  Trust me on this, I often have to tread water to stay afloat at neoneocon. The regulars here are smarter than you or me.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KulSQjjQVPE" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KulSQjjQVPE</a></p>
<p>We all see right through you.  Grow up, learn a skill, get a job, prosper, find a mate, make children who make grandchildren, grow old and content, and stop being a total jerk.  You only get to go around once and then you die.  Die stupid and dogmatic or die free. Its your choice.</p>
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