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	Comments on: Friedman on the Middle East today	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/15/friedman-on-the-middle-east-today/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Rob		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/15/friedman-on-the-middle-east-today/#comment-461892</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 21:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21920#comment-461892</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I hate Obama as much as anyone, but I must confess  I don&#039;t see him as being any more reprehensible, on a  personal level, than your typical politician. They all excel at evading responsibility, deflecting blame, distorting the truth, etc. I also think that trying to turn Obama into some kind of supervillain is counterproductive to our cause. It&#039;s a distraction at a time when we do not need to be distracted.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate Obama as much as anyone, but I must confess  I don&#8217;t see him as being any more reprehensible, on a  personal level, than your typical politician. They all excel at evading responsibility, deflecting blame, distorting the truth, etc. I also think that trying to turn Obama into some kind of supervillain is counterproductive to our cause. It&#8217;s a distraction at a time when we do not need to be distracted.</p>
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		<title>
		By: JH		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/15/friedman-on-the-middle-east-today/#comment-461196</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2012 18:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21920#comment-461196</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;The US understood this about Saddam. It’s one of the reasons we liked him for so long. It’s also why so many religious leaders hated him fervently.&lt;/i&gt;


&lt;b&gt;EMMA SKY:&lt;/b&gt; I mean, what drives instability in Iraq is the struggle for power. It&#039;s a struggle for power and resources and it&#039;s not Kurd, Sunni, Shia. It&#039;s very simplistic to view this and we viewed it in purely sectarian, ethnic terms since &#039;03. You have within the Kurds PUK and KDP. They had their own civil war. Within the Shia you have huge differences, and it&#039;s based on, you know, your ideology, or the Wilat al-Faqih ...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The US understood this about Saddam. It’s one of the reasons we liked him for so long. It’s also why so many religious leaders hated him fervently.</i></p>
<p><b>EMMA SKY:</b> I mean, what drives instability in Iraq is the struggle for power. It&#8217;s a struggle for power and resources and it&#8217;s not Kurd, Sunni, Shia. It&#8217;s very simplistic to view this and we viewed it in purely sectarian, ethnic terms since &#8217;03. You have within the Kurds PUK and KDP. They had their own civil war. Within the Shia you have huge differences, and it&#8217;s based on, you know, your ideology, or the Wilat al-Faqih &#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: JH		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/15/friedman-on-the-middle-east-today/#comment-460769</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 22:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21920#comment-460769</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It might those think about Iraq stability, wounder if they read the resent news:


&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/foreign-policy/item/13000-us-troops-deployed-in-iraq-again&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;U.S. Troops Deployed in Iraq Again&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Thursday, 27 September 2012 12:46&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It might those think about Iraq stability, wounder if they read the resent news:</p>
<p><a HREF="http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/foreign-policy/item/13000-us-troops-deployed-in-iraq-again" rel="nofollow">U.S. Troops Deployed in Iraq Again</a><br />
<i>Thursday, 27 September 2012 12:46</i></p>
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		<title>
		By: JH		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/15/friedman-on-the-middle-east-today/#comment-460707</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 20:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21920#comment-460707</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To correct and tidy things for you, its better off saying this:

&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/09/29/who_won_the_war_in_iraq_heres_a_big_hint_it_wasnt_the_united_states_0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Iran&lt;/a&gt; is at present the most stable country in the Arab Middle East]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To correct and tidy things for you, its better off saying this:</p>
<p><a HREF="http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/09/29/who_won_the_war_in_iraq_heres_a_big_hint_it_wasnt_the_united_states_0" rel="nofollow">Iran</a> is at present the most stable country in the Arab Middle East</p>
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		<title>
		By: Curtis		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/15/friedman-on-the-middle-east-today/#comment-460558</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Curtis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21920#comment-460558</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So we might be rediscovering the mertis of the Kirkpatrick doctrine?

Pat Buchanan helps the Benghazi investigation gain traction by expressing the simple question:

http://townhall.com/columnists/patbuchanan/2012/11/16/who_fed_susan_the_benghazi_bullhockey]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So we might be rediscovering the mertis of the Kirkpatrick doctrine?</p>
<p>Pat Buchanan helps the Benghazi investigation gain traction by expressing the simple question:</p>
<p><a href="http://townhall.com/columnists/patbuchanan/2012/11/16/who_fed_susan_the_benghazi_bullhockey" rel="nofollow ugc">http://townhall.com/columnists/patbuchanan/2012/11/16/who_fed_susan_the_benghazi_bullhockey</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Artfldgr		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/15/friedman-on-the-middle-east-today/#comment-460557</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Artfldgr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 15:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21920#comment-460557</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Truce talks failed... 

Israel has started drafting 16,000 reserve troops]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truce talks failed&#8230; </p>
<p>Israel has started drafting 16,000 reserve troops</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rob		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/15/friedman-on-the-middle-east-today/#comment-460541</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 15:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21920#comment-460541</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Saddam would never have gained status with religious radicals and would never have been tapped to succeed OBL. The one good thing about Saddam that he made very, very clear during his many years in power is that he knew how to keep religious whackjobs (both Sunni and Shia) in check. He was never more brutal than when teaching these folks a lesson. The US understood this about Saddam. It&#039;s one of the reasons we liked him for so long. It&#039;s also why so many religious leaders hated him fervently. 

Yet another good thing about Saddam, at least from the perspective of US interests, is that he kept the Iranians constantly looking over their shoulders. He didn&#039;t take a lot of guff from them, either.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saddam would never have gained status with religious radicals and would never have been tapped to succeed OBL. The one good thing about Saddam that he made very, very clear during his many years in power is that he knew how to keep religious whackjobs (both Sunni and Shia) in check. He was never more brutal than when teaching these folks a lesson. The US understood this about Saddam. It&#8217;s one of the reasons we liked him for so long. It&#8217;s also why so many religious leaders hated him fervently. </p>
<p>Yet another good thing about Saddam, at least from the perspective of US interests, is that he kept the Iranians constantly looking over their shoulders. He didn&#8217;t take a lot of guff from them, either.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Artfldgr		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/15/friedman-on-the-middle-east-today/#comment-460538</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Artfldgr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 15:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21920#comment-460538</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[and pretty much what i said five years ago and fought huxley over and others, is now starting to happen. it actually started to happen way before this, but at that level people can deny the perception, so they dont think things start till the time they cant deny it, not the time it actually starts. (so the stuff happening is blamed on Obama, not all the others since 1930s and before and all along the line up to it. there is a reason they like pyramids (and obelisks more - think of an obelisk as a pyramid with most of the lower class cut off rather than flowing out from the top)). 

anyway... being too busy denying it will happen, they don&#039;t act on the idea that they should consider whether their choices would affect that. for the left that believes Palestine should remove Israel, the point is moot. 

Rockets have hit tel aviv (over 245 fired)

IDF has called the citizens up and mobilized them
forces are massed at the syrian border

Egypt now has also massed troops in violation of the 1979 peace treaty i said didn&#039;t exist once the state changed hands.  turkey is frozen in a damned if i do, damned if i don&#039;t position (to defend itself and attack Syria and so on, is to also be seen as helping Israel - so think of it as the rook protecting the bishop)

and i can see its going to get hotter..
(though i am unsure whether or not they will actually destroy the pyramids and the sphinx as an aside to things, as they now say they think they should)

note that while everyone is paying attention to all this (and rightly so) they wont be paying attention to the copts, and the darfur christians, and so on. 

friedman is nuts.. 

because he is not reading this right, as the next crisis for Obama is whether to step up and help or to sit aside and watch, and neither is a winning proposition (so i say he will freeze like a deer in the headlights not being able to resolve the best play - i also predict that since that is a weakness of his, that that kind of situation will be created more just so as to exploit this inherent delay)

IF Obama stands aside, then the message to other allies is what, and what does that favor? 

IF Obama enters the arena, then he begs Russia and china to enter the arena too on behalf of Egypt, and Syria (in greater numbers than is already there operating equipment for them - as has been true in every conflict so far since Korea)

this second option is what has always kept America out of the hot side of this, including the prior war where the US sat off shore watching, and soviets sat on the other side watching and kibitzing. 

the Muslim brotherhood has withdrawn the Egyptian ambassador. 

and on top of it all, this is what will dominate the news (among other things avoiding the above for a longer while), Twinkies Maker Hostess Going Out of Business, CEO Blames Union Strike...

yes. thats right, the left has convinced people that if they push harder there is a unlimited pot of gold on the other side of the rainbow. they pushed, the company has decided they cant operate any more, and thats the end of that.  (will Obama nationalize twinkie? i fear that the fact its called a twinkie would prevent it)

take some time and you will find that this is not the first company to do this or make cuts, and if you go to the various left places discussing it, their sing song is that the wealthy are doing this for spite to teach the poor a lessson, not that the poors demands and lack of knowlege has pushed things to a point where its just not doable any more.  

using the analogy from towing loads, they put so much weight on the engine, they blew it. 

in the old days they would have said that was the straw that broke the camels back. 

and the people are as bewildered about that as they are about the way economy is going (And will go) and will be bewildered when the news breaks enough that they realize things are hot and its too far along for their will to matter]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and pretty much what i said five years ago and fought huxley over and others, is now starting to happen. it actually started to happen way before this, but at that level people can deny the perception, so they dont think things start till the time they cant deny it, not the time it actually starts. (so the stuff happening is blamed on Obama, not all the others since 1930s and before and all along the line up to it. there is a reason they like pyramids (and obelisks more &#8211; think of an obelisk as a pyramid with most of the lower class cut off rather than flowing out from the top)). </p>
<p>anyway&#8230; being too busy denying it will happen, they don&#8217;t act on the idea that they should consider whether their choices would affect that. for the left that believes Palestine should remove Israel, the point is moot. </p>
<p>Rockets have hit tel aviv (over 245 fired)</p>
<p>IDF has called the citizens up and mobilized them<br />
forces are massed at the syrian border</p>
<p>Egypt now has also massed troops in violation of the 1979 peace treaty i said didn&#8217;t exist once the state changed hands.  turkey is frozen in a damned if i do, damned if i don&#8217;t position (to defend itself and attack Syria and so on, is to also be seen as helping Israel &#8211; so think of it as the rook protecting the bishop)</p>
<p>and i can see its going to get hotter..<br />
(though i am unsure whether or not they will actually destroy the pyramids and the sphinx as an aside to things, as they now say they think they should)</p>
<p>note that while everyone is paying attention to all this (and rightly so) they wont be paying attention to the copts, and the darfur christians, and so on. </p>
<p>friedman is nuts.. </p>
<p>because he is not reading this right, as the next crisis for Obama is whether to step up and help or to sit aside and watch, and neither is a winning proposition (so i say he will freeze like a deer in the headlights not being able to resolve the best play &#8211; i also predict that since that is a weakness of his, that that kind of situation will be created more just so as to exploit this inherent delay)</p>
<p>IF Obama stands aside, then the message to other allies is what, and what does that favor? </p>
<p>IF Obama enters the arena, then he begs Russia and china to enter the arena too on behalf of Egypt, and Syria (in greater numbers than is already there operating equipment for them &#8211; as has been true in every conflict so far since Korea)</p>
<p>this second option is what has always kept America out of the hot side of this, including the prior war where the US sat off shore watching, and soviets sat on the other side watching and kibitzing. </p>
<p>the Muslim brotherhood has withdrawn the Egyptian ambassador. </p>
<p>and on top of it all, this is what will dominate the news (among other things avoiding the above for a longer while), Twinkies Maker Hostess Going Out of Business, CEO Blames Union Strike&#8230;</p>
<p>yes. thats right, the left has convinced people that if they push harder there is a unlimited pot of gold on the other side of the rainbow. they pushed, the company has decided they cant operate any more, and thats the end of that.  (will Obama nationalize twinkie? i fear that the fact its called a twinkie would prevent it)</p>
<p>take some time and you will find that this is not the first company to do this or make cuts, and if you go to the various left places discussing it, their sing song is that the wealthy are doing this for spite to teach the poor a lessson, not that the poors demands and lack of knowlege has pushed things to a point where its just not doable any more.  </p>
<p>using the analogy from towing loads, they put so much weight on the engine, they blew it. </p>
<p>in the old days they would have said that was the straw that broke the camels back. </p>
<p>and the people are as bewildered about that as they are about the way economy is going (And will go) and will be bewildered when the news breaks enough that they realize things are hot and its too far along for their will to matter</p>
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		<title>
		By: JH		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/15/friedman-on-the-middle-east-today/#comment-460276</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 05:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21920#comment-460276</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt; Iraq is at present the most stable country in the Arab Middle East&lt;/i&gt;

What a joke, I laughed till I fall from my seat....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> Iraq is at present the most stable country in the Arab Middle East</i></p>
<p>What a joke, I laughed till I fall from my seat&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: expat		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/15/friedman-on-the-middle-east-today/#comment-460258</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[expat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 05:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21920#comment-460258</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neo,
There is one other element in the case for getting rid of Saddam besides the failing sanctions and the probability of his restarting WMD programs. That is the fact that he woud have gained stature among radicals for having &quot;beaten&quot; the US. He could have been the follow-up leader to OBL, especially with his oil money to fund terror groups. And he would have had his UN, French, and Russian bribees to help smooth the way for him internationally.

Too many people are now assuming that we went into Iraq to nation build, when, in fact, nation building was but one option in deciding what to do when our goal of getting rid of Saddam was achieved. I just hope the provincial hate-America lefties don&#039;t manage to erase our real choices completely from the narrative, but then again, their BDS is so great that they can&#039;t see or talk about reality.    

One comment re Turkey: It&#039;s my impression that the Istanbul Attaturk secularists didn&#039;t do a great job of spreading wealth and education in the backward eastern villages. As people from these areas moved to Istanbul looking for work, there was a culture clash. One could say that the Anatolian villagers clung to their guns and religion and didn&#039;t particularly like being treated as rubes. I am certainly no expert on this, but I have read things that point in this direction.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo,<br />
There is one other element in the case for getting rid of Saddam besides the failing sanctions and the probability of his restarting WMD programs. That is the fact that he woud have gained stature among radicals for having &#8220;beaten&#8221; the US. He could have been the follow-up leader to OBL, especially with his oil money to fund terror groups. And he would have had his UN, French, and Russian bribees to help smooth the way for him internationally.</p>
<p>Too many people are now assuming that we went into Iraq to nation build, when, in fact, nation building was but one option in deciding what to do when our goal of getting rid of Saddam was achieved. I just hope the provincial hate-America lefties don&#8217;t manage to erase our real choices completely from the narrative, but then again, their BDS is so great that they can&#8217;t see or talk about reality.    </p>
<p>One comment re Turkey: It&#8217;s my impression that the Istanbul Attaturk secularists didn&#8217;t do a great job of spreading wealth and education in the backward eastern villages. As people from these areas moved to Istanbul looking for work, there was a culture clash. One could say that the Anatolian villagers clung to their guns and religion and didn&#8217;t particularly like being treated as rubes. I am certainly no expert on this, but I have read things that point in this direction.</p>
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