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	Comments on: For those of you who want an election analysis that&#8217;s not so pessimistic&#8230;	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/09/for-those-of-you-who-want-an-election-analysis-thats-not-so-pessimistic/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: southpaw		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/09/for-those-of-you-who-want-an-election-analysis-thats-not-so-pessimistic/#comment-457042</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[southpaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2012 04:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21697#comment-457042</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kolnai- forgive the late response if you&#039;re still paying attention.  Interesting analogy and highlights an abysmal ignorance of that history on my part. But thank you nevertheless writing. 
My greatest fear now is the rush to change, retool, etc to capture the the supposedly disenfranchised or ignored minority coalitions.
  Not that I think conservatives should ignore them, but a couple of things bother me with the premise in general- for one, it ignores the fact that in several states like Texas, where Hispanic populations are the highest, conservatives do pretty well. In fact it&#039;s simply not true they vote as a block in the states where the economies are fairly healthy and provide jobs and opportunities for them - they&#039;re like everybody else in that regard. I&#039;m trying to get my head around the Republican Party braintrust that fails to recognize New Jersey, NY, NH, etc with populations much less Hispanic than Texas, who can be counted on to vote democrat.  It seems to me they&#039;ve failed to capture their &quot; own demographic&quot; as its widely know they&#039;re the party of whites. 
Another thing that is bordering on ridiculous - I am not a conservative because somebody has &quot;reached out&quot;. Quite the opposite-I am because nobody has. Before I had a pot to piss in, or a window to throw it out of, I was a conservative. Now that I have the pot, I simply want to keep it..but there&#039;s never been an outreach in modern times which I recall that targeted whites saying &quot;you need us because we&#039;ve got your back&quot;. This seems to be what the pundits are calling for- a reassurance the Republicans are interested in them, and helping them with whatever it is they want. A truly conservative govt treats everybody the same- it&#039;s cold and indifferent when it comes to promoting interests of factions.  It&#039;s the least racist and sexist of all philosophies, but completely at odds with the acquisition of power. 
  And that is probably why conservatism is a tough sell. For those seeking a benefit or a program as a reason to vote for a conservative, it&#039;s not going to happen. So the outreach can be no more than a promise not to take what you&#039;ve earned, and to create an environment for you to succeed. The other guys are offering a better deal. 
  I don&#039;t expect our braintrust to be thinking of how to do the same things as democrats, I expect them to realize the obvious- they can&#039;t get more than 60% of the white vote.  Which is very odd, according to conventional wisdom, thats all they care about. You would think they&#039;d do much better with all the attention whites get from republicans. But the Left has successfully fractured that group into a dozen different blocks too.  
  Reaching out to any group is contrary to conservatism, and concedes the point the Republicans have been a racist party, focused on whites. The last thing that will work is to pretend to be democrats, but the professional pundits have mostly fallen into the trap.  I&#039;m dismayed they spent no time thinking about the problem, how they got here, or the game that&#039;s been played. They just fall deeper into the trap that was set years ago.  Watching Fox News this week is like watching a snuff film.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kolnai- forgive the late response if you&#8217;re still paying attention.  Interesting analogy and highlights an abysmal ignorance of that history on my part. But thank you nevertheless writing.<br />
My greatest fear now is the rush to change, retool, etc to capture the the supposedly disenfranchised or ignored minority coalitions.<br />
  Not that I think conservatives should ignore them, but a couple of things bother me with the premise in general- for one, it ignores the fact that in several states like Texas, where Hispanic populations are the highest, conservatives do pretty well. In fact it&#8217;s simply not true they vote as a block in the states where the economies are fairly healthy and provide jobs and opportunities for them &#8211; they&#8217;re like everybody else in that regard. I&#8217;m trying to get my head around the Republican Party braintrust that fails to recognize New Jersey, NY, NH, etc with populations much less Hispanic than Texas, who can be counted on to vote democrat.  It seems to me they&#8217;ve failed to capture their &#8221; own demographic&#8221; as its widely know they&#8217;re the party of whites.<br />
Another thing that is bordering on ridiculous &#8211; I am not a conservative because somebody has &#8220;reached out&#8221;. Quite the opposite-I am because nobody has. Before I had a pot to piss in, or a window to throw it out of, I was a conservative. Now that I have the pot, I simply want to keep it..but there&#8217;s never been an outreach in modern times which I recall that targeted whites saying &#8220;you need us because we&#8217;ve got your back&#8221;. This seems to be what the pundits are calling for- a reassurance the Republicans are interested in them, and helping them with whatever it is they want. A truly conservative govt treats everybody the same- it&#8217;s cold and indifferent when it comes to promoting interests of factions.  It&#8217;s the least racist and sexist of all philosophies, but completely at odds with the acquisition of power.<br />
  And that is probably why conservatism is a tough sell. For those seeking a benefit or a program as a reason to vote for a conservative, it&#8217;s not going to happen. So the outreach can be no more than a promise not to take what you&#8217;ve earned, and to create an environment for you to succeed. The other guys are offering a better deal.<br />
  I don&#8217;t expect our braintrust to be thinking of how to do the same things as democrats, I expect them to realize the obvious- they can&#8217;t get more than 60% of the white vote.  Which is very odd, according to conventional wisdom, thats all they care about. You would think they&#8217;d do much better with all the attention whites get from republicans. But the Left has successfully fractured that group into a dozen different blocks too.<br />
  Reaching out to any group is contrary to conservatism, and concedes the point the Republicans have been a racist party, focused on whites. The last thing that will work is to pretend to be democrats, but the professional pundits have mostly fallen into the trap.  I&#8217;m dismayed they spent no time thinking about the problem, how they got here, or the game that&#8217;s been played. They just fall deeper into the trap that was set years ago.  Watching Fox News this week is like watching a snuff film.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ziontruth		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/09/for-those-of-you-who-want-an-election-analysis-thats-not-so-pessimistic/#comment-456154</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ziontruth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2012 20:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21697#comment-456154</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[kolnai,

&quot;Judaism itself has undergone an alarming melting away into worldly politics and ideology,...&quot;

The Jews in the West (Ashkenazim) have undergone the same upheavals of the 18th-century Enlightenment as the Christians have, only in bigger proportions. It&#039;s not Judaism itself, because those in the East (Sephardim) have been far less affected and retain a medieval-like strength of faith that one finds among the Muslims as well.

Western Jews left religious observance in droves in the previous few centuries as a result of the Enlightenment&#039;s doubting impulse. Because most Jews cannot, psychologically, leave the old-time religion without the feeling of guilt that they are breaking an ancient golden chain, they are compelled to make up for it by substituting a worldly mission for the Torah observance they left. Hence, &lt;i&gt;tikkun olam&lt;/i&gt;, which in its original religious context means &quot;Installing the world to be fit for God to descend to full reign and revelation in it&quot; by means of religious observance–a spiritual mission and only a spiritual one–was, for the no longer observant Jews, replaced with a new, worldly meaning of &quot;repairing the world,&quot; interpreted into sundry causes, some good, some very bad such as Marxism.

&quot;...this is similar to the pressures conservatives will now increasingly face to abandon their core principles and compromise with the whims of the…er…gentiles.&quot;

I think it&#039;s not a bad analogy, Kolnai. In my view, True America is embodied in the rural, smalltown inhabitants–&quot;rednecks&quot; in other words. These are the fiercely independent, morally straight and faith-filled Americans who built the U.S. of A. and made it great. Over the last century, the percentage of Americans rejecting those values for doubt, nihilism, racecardery, vengefulness and above all dependency has slowly grown, until this November 6 it was shown to have become the majority. Thus, America not only has a sizable population that shuns core American values, but now can no longer enjoy the largesse of the true Americans whom they hate. If I were an American, I&#039;d see hope for the future only in secession of True America from the Americans In Residence Only.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kolnai,</p>
<p>&#8220;Judaism itself has undergone an alarming melting away into worldly politics and ideology,&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>The Jews in the West (Ashkenazim) have undergone the same upheavals of the 18th-century Enlightenment as the Christians have, only in bigger proportions. It&#8217;s not Judaism itself, because those in the East (Sephardim) have been far less affected and retain a medieval-like strength of faith that one finds among the Muslims as well.</p>
<p>Western Jews left religious observance in droves in the previous few centuries as a result of the Enlightenment&#8217;s doubting impulse. Because most Jews cannot, psychologically, leave the old-time religion without the feeling of guilt that they are breaking an ancient golden chain, they are compelled to make up for it by substituting a worldly mission for the Torah observance they left. Hence, <i>tikkun olam</i>, which in its original religious context means &#8220;Installing the world to be fit for God to descend to full reign and revelation in it&#8221; by means of religious observance–a spiritual mission and only a spiritual one–was, for the no longer observant Jews, replaced with a new, worldly meaning of &#8220;repairing the world,&#8221; interpreted into sundry causes, some good, some very bad such as Marxism.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;this is similar to the pressures conservatives will now increasingly face to abandon their core principles and compromise with the whims of the…er…gentiles.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s not a bad analogy, Kolnai. In my view, True America is embodied in the rural, smalltown inhabitants–&#8221;rednecks&#8221; in other words. These are the fiercely independent, morally straight and faith-filled Americans who built the U.S. of A. and made it great. Over the last century, the percentage of Americans rejecting those values for doubt, nihilism, racecardery, vengefulness and above all dependency has slowly grown, until this November 6 it was shown to have become the majority. Thus, America not only has a sizable population that shuns core American values, but now can no longer enjoy the largesse of the true Americans whom they hate. If I were an American, I&#8217;d see hope for the future only in secession of True America from the Americans In Residence Only.</p>
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		<title>
		By: kolnai		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/09/for-those-of-you-who-want-an-election-analysis-thats-not-so-pessimistic/#comment-456005</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kolnai]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21697#comment-456005</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My God, rickl.  That is horrifying - both what happened and the parallel (which is, as you not-so-subtly hint, virtually 1:1).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My God, rickl.  That is horrifying &#8211; both what happened and the parallel (which is, as you not-so-subtly hint, virtually 1:1).</p>
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		By: rickl		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/09/for-those-of-you-who-want-an-election-analysis-thats-not-so-pessimistic/#comment-455965</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rickl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2012 15:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21697#comment-455965</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2012/11/him.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Argentina:&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;He came out of nowhere but you still voted for him because you wanted change. Between you and me, at first you could hardly spell his full name.

Somehow he managed to win the elections and become President. He did appeal to the masses. He talked a lot even without saying anything meaningful. He had made lots of promises, but didn’t deliver any of them. 

When he became president, instead of doing anything to improve the situation of the people, he did everything to improve his own position so that he could stay in power. He was supposed to stand for the little guy, but the big corporations he preached against were the ones he benefited instead. Kids would chant his name in schools like some mantra. Supporters would say his name again and again like brain dead zombies. No one understood what he was really all about, he never said it in the first place, but charisma, millions in campaign marketing would do the trick.

The man who was supposed to bring change and for once take the side of the working class ended up repeating socialist blabber on one side, and handing tax payers money to mega corporations on the other. He made sure to milk the middle class as much as possible so as to redistribute it fairly. To him, that would mean giving the biggest chunk of the pie to corporations and then throwing scraps through welfare programs that benefitted him politically, forcing the will of the people with handouts.

Whenever he could he would strike against individual liberties. Any form of criticism was no longer considered a natural consequence of debate and observations, but an unpatriotic act that shouldn’t be accepted.

Soon enough, you noticed that less and less people criticized him. Even celebrities didn’t dare speak against him, some afraid of being shunned by their peers, who would never accept someone “from the other side”, others were simply in his payroll in one way or another. 

When the time came to vote again, people just didn’t learn the lesson. Some couldn’t live without uncle sugar´s money, he made sure of that during his first term. It didn’t matter that the opposition had been demonized, that he had created a new kind of politics, of hatred and revenge.

It was as if no one noticed that he had turned a once proud nation into a shadow of its former, glorious self.  He simply was unworthy of the Presidency he held. Seems people wanted more of that, and went out and chose that again through their vote.

The damage done will take decades to undo. In the end, we got the country we deserved.

His name was Nestor Kirchner and he destroyed my country.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sound familiar?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2012/11/him.html" rel="nofollow">Argentina:</a></p>
<blockquote cite=""><p>He came out of nowhere but you still voted for him because you wanted change. Between you and me, at first you could hardly spell his full name.</p>
<p>Somehow he managed to win the elections and become President. He did appeal to the masses. He talked a lot even without saying anything meaningful. He had made lots of promises, but didn’t deliver any of them. </p>
<p>When he became president, instead of doing anything to improve the situation of the people, he did everything to improve his own position so that he could stay in power. He was supposed to stand for the little guy, but the big corporations he preached against were the ones he benefited instead. Kids would chant his name in schools like some mantra. Supporters would say his name again and again like brain dead zombies. No one understood what he was really all about, he never said it in the first place, but charisma, millions in campaign marketing would do the trick.</p>
<p>The man who was supposed to bring change and for once take the side of the working class ended up repeating socialist blabber on one side, and handing tax payers money to mega corporations on the other. He made sure to milk the middle class as much as possible so as to redistribute it fairly. To him, that would mean giving the biggest chunk of the pie to corporations and then throwing scraps through welfare programs that benefitted him politically, forcing the will of the people with handouts.</p>
<p>Whenever he could he would strike against individual liberties. Any form of criticism was no longer considered a natural consequence of debate and observations, but an unpatriotic act that shouldn’t be accepted.</p>
<p>Soon enough, you noticed that less and less people criticized him. Even celebrities didn’t dare speak against him, some afraid of being shunned by their peers, who would never accept someone “from the other side”, others were simply in his payroll in one way or another. </p>
<p>When the time came to vote again, people just didn’t learn the lesson. Some couldn’t live without uncle sugar´s money, he made sure of that during his first term. It didn’t matter that the opposition had been demonized, that he had created a new kind of politics, of hatred and revenge.</p>
<p>It was as if no one noticed that he had turned a once proud nation into a shadow of its former, glorious self.  He simply was unworthy of the Presidency he held. Seems people wanted more of that, and went out and chose that again through their vote.</p>
<p>The damage done will take decades to undo. In the end, we got the country we deserved.</p>
<p>His name was Nestor Kirchner and he destroyed my country.</p></blockquote>
<p>Sound familiar?</p>
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		<title>
		By: kolnai		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/09/for-those-of-you-who-want-an-election-analysis-thats-not-so-pessimistic/#comment-455897</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kolnai]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21697#comment-455897</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[JJ -

&quot;Well, it&#039;s better than Argentina.  Or Zimbabwe.&quot;

So you&#039;re a glass 1/10th full man, eh? :)  

(I agree with your prognostication, for what it&#039;s worth).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JJ &#8211;</p>
<p>&#8220;Well, it&#8217;s better than Argentina.  Or Zimbabwe.&#8221;</p>
<p>So you&#8217;re a glass 1/10th full man, eh? 🙂  </p>
<p>(I agree with your prognostication, for what it&#8217;s worth).</p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/09/for-those-of-you-who-want-an-election-analysis-thats-not-so-pessimistic/#comment-455672</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J. formerly Jimmy J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2012 05:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21697#comment-455672</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[foxmarks: &quot;....all I have to do is wait. The libertines will burn down Rome, and we all get a fresh start.&quot;

Read the story of Argentina&#039;s collapse in 2000. Their &quot;fresh start&quot; has them back in the same place with 30% inflation and another default looming.  Sometimes you get a second chance. Mostly, you don&#039;t.

This country is wealthy enough, with  enough resources and talented people, that the  decline will  likely be a slow slide to what one sees in Russia today - a few people doing well, the rest living  lives of quiet desperation and trusting in vodka, or a suitable substitute, to soothe their worries.  Well, it&#039;s better than Argentina. Or Zimbabwe.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>foxmarks: &#8220;&#8230;.all I have to do is wait. The libertines will burn down Rome, and we all get a fresh start.&#8221;</p>
<p>Read the story of Argentina&#8217;s collapse in 2000. Their &#8220;fresh start&#8221; has them back in the same place with 30% inflation and another default looming.  Sometimes you get a second chance. Mostly, you don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>This country is wealthy enough, with  enough resources and talented people, that the  decline will  likely be a slow slide to what one sees in Russia today &#8211; a few people doing well, the rest living  lives of quiet desperation and trusting in vodka, or a suitable substitute, to soothe their worries.  Well, it&#8217;s better than Argentina. Or Zimbabwe.</p>
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		<title>
		By: kolnai		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/09/for-those-of-you-who-want-an-election-analysis-thats-not-so-pessimistic/#comment-455575</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kolnai]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2012 01:58:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21697#comment-455575</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sam L. -

That&#039;s interesting - when my brother lived in Beijing he used to go to this coffee shop that, seemingly randomly, had a big framed picture of Avicenna on the wall.  

Has NOTHING to do with China in any way (save for possibly the Uighers in the West, but this was Beijing).

Must be something I&#039;m missing about some Chinese people with a little reading who are fascinated by the figures of that era.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam L. &#8211;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s interesting &#8211; when my brother lived in Beijing he used to go to this coffee shop that, seemingly randomly, had a big framed picture of Avicenna on the wall.  </p>
<p>Has NOTHING to do with China in any way (save for possibly the Uighers in the West, but this was Beijing).</p>
<p>Must be something I&#8217;m missing about some Chinese people with a little reading who are fascinated by the figures of that era.</p>
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		<title>
		By: thomass		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/09/for-those-of-you-who-want-an-election-analysis-thats-not-so-pessimistic/#comment-455556</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thomass]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2012 01:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21697#comment-455556</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[while the republican get out the vote system didn&#039;t work... from a technical &#039;won&#039;t turn on when you flip the switch&#039; kind of didn&#039;t work....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>while the republican get out the vote system didn&#8217;t work&#8230; from a technical &#8216;won&#8217;t turn on when you flip the switch&#8217; kind of didn&#8217;t work&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: foxmarks		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/09/for-those-of-you-who-want-an-election-analysis-thats-not-so-pessimistic/#comment-455506</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[foxmarks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2012 00:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21697#comment-455506</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Many of the points listed help explain how I can make gloomy-sounding forecasts yet maintain optimism. There are structural problems which will wreck the political-economic system in the near- to mid-term.

My local and State Republican pallys are having an entertaining fight about the future of the losing party. I love the liberty people insisting that demographics will ensure only socially-liberal policies can win elections. They fail to recognize that there is only an arbitrary distinction between fiscal and social policy. Social liberalism will require fiscal liberalism, too.

Since I tend toward traditional social arrangements, and the policies which support same, all I have to do is wait. The libertines will burn down Rome, and we all get a fresh start.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many of the points listed help explain how I can make gloomy-sounding forecasts yet maintain optimism. There are structural problems which will wreck the political-economic system in the near- to mid-term.</p>
<p>My local and State Republican pallys are having an entertaining fight about the future of the losing party. I love the liberty people insisting that demographics will ensure only socially-liberal policies can win elections. They fail to recognize that there is only an arbitrary distinction between fiscal and social policy. Social liberalism will require fiscal liberalism, too.</p>
<p>Since I tend toward traditional social arrangements, and the policies which support same, all I have to do is wait. The libertines will burn down Rome, and we all get a fresh start.</p>
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		By: Sam L.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/11/09/for-those-of-you-who-want-an-election-analysis-thats-not-so-pessimistic/#comment-455448</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sam L.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2012 23:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21697#comment-455448</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Speaking of Maimonides, I used to eat in a Chinese restaurant in the midwest.  Its china was marked &quot;Maimonides Hospital&quot;, in Brooklyn IIRC.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of Maimonides, I used to eat in a Chinese restaurant in the midwest.  Its china was marked &#8220;Maimonides Hospital&#8221;, in Brooklyn IIRC.</p>
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