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	Comments on: Will America care&#8230;	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/26/will-america-care/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/26/will-america-care/#comment-445582</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21227#comment-445582</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[RickZ: you&#039;re correct that the Carter rescue mission failed at that point.  But it is highly probably that, had it not been stopped in the desert, it would have failed later on.  It was very very poorly thought out.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://neoneocon.com/2010/04/25/5187/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s a post&lt;/a&gt; I wrote on the subject.  An excerpt:

&lt;blockquote&gt; Debacle, indeed; the planes never even came near Tehran.

Perhaps it’s a good thing they didn’t. From the evidence in the piece, the loss of life would likely have been even greater had they done so. It’s very difficult to believe that this mission ever had any chance of succeeding. Not only was the weather problem in the desert underestimated, and the assault force relatively small (one hundred thirty two men maximum, with some planes expected to encounter technical difficulties and drop out), but here was the game plan for controlling crowds around the embassy:

    &quot;Another presidential directive concerned the use of nonlethal riot-control agents. Given that the shah’s occasionally violent riot control during the revolution was now Exhibit A in Iran’s human-rights case against the former regime and America, Carter wanted to avoid killing Iranians, so he had insisted that if a hostile crowd formed during the raid, Delta should attempt to control it without shooting people. Burruss considered this ridiculous. He and his men were going to assault a guarded compound in the middle of a city of more than 5 million people, most of them presumed to be aggressively hostile. It was unbelievably risky; everyone on the mission knew there was a very good chance they would not get home alive. Wade Ishmoto, a Delta captain who worked with the unit’s intelligence division, had joked, &#039;The only difference between this and the Alamo is that Davy Crockett didn’t have to fight his way in.&#039;&quot;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RickZ: you&#8217;re correct that the Carter rescue mission failed at that point.  But it is highly probably that, had it not been stopped in the desert, it would have failed later on.  It was very very poorly thought out.  <a href="http://neoneocon.com/2010/04/25/5187/" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s a post</a> I wrote on the subject.  An excerpt:</p>
<blockquote><p> Debacle, indeed; the planes never even came near Tehran.</p>
<p>Perhaps it’s a good thing they didn’t. From the evidence in the piece, the loss of life would likely have been even greater had they done so. It’s very difficult to believe that this mission ever had any chance of succeeding. Not only was the weather problem in the desert underestimated, and the assault force relatively small (one hundred thirty two men maximum, with some planes expected to encounter technical difficulties and drop out), but here was the game plan for controlling crowds around the embassy:</p>
<p>    &#8220;Another presidential directive concerned the use of nonlethal riot-control agents. Given that the shah’s occasionally violent riot control during the revolution was now Exhibit A in Iran’s human-rights case against the former regime and America, Carter wanted to avoid killing Iranians, so he had insisted that if a hostile crowd formed during the raid, Delta should attempt to control it without shooting people. Burruss considered this ridiculous. He and his men were going to assault a guarded compound in the middle of a city of more than 5 million people, most of them presumed to be aggressively hostile. It was unbelievably risky; everyone on the mission knew there was a very good chance they would not get home alive. Wade Ishmoto, a Delta captain who worked with the unit’s intelligence division, had joked, &#8216;The only difference between this and the Alamo is that Davy Crockett didn’t have to fight his way in.'&#8221;
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: RickZ		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/26/will-america-care/#comment-445304</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RickZ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 09:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21227#comment-445304</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;parker Says: 

I agree, but I think there is at least one more factor; they may have been afraid of a rescue mission failing and reminding older voters of Carter’s failed rescue mission.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

See, this is what pisses me off about progressives (among other things):  Their complete non-understanding of military capability.  If anyone with a lick of sense in this Administration knew diddly about special ops, they would know the Carter rescue mission failed because sand got into the helicopters and too many went down to continue the mission.  Well, we&#039;ve been fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq for awhile now, not places known for their deciduous forests.  In other words, our fighting capability in desert conditions is magnitudes better than in 1979, just in special ops toys alone.  Our warriors are now battle tested in desert conditions and are found to be quite capable.  The progressive in the Offal Office was too cowardly to make a decision instead voting his career long and safe &#039;present&#039;, if he was even briefed (those pesky 3 a.m. phone calls have a jarring tendency to wake one up from a night&#039;s slumber).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>parker Says: </p>
<p>I agree, but I think there is at least one more factor; they may have been afraid of a rescue mission failing and reminding older voters of Carter’s failed rescue mission.</p></blockquote>
<p>See, this is what pisses me off about progressives (among other things):  Their complete non-understanding of military capability.  If anyone with a lick of sense in this Administration knew diddly about special ops, they would know the Carter rescue mission failed because sand got into the helicopters and too many went down to continue the mission.  Well, we&#8217;ve been fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq for awhile now, not places known for their deciduous forests.  In other words, our fighting capability in desert conditions is magnitudes better than in 1979, just in special ops toys alone.  Our warriors are now battle tested in desert conditions and are found to be quite capable.  The progressive in the Offal Office was too cowardly to make a decision instead voting his career long and safe &#8216;present&#8217;, if he was even briefed (those pesky 3 a.m. phone calls have a jarring tendency to wake one up from a night&#8217;s slumber).</p>
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		<title>
		By: parker		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/26/will-america-care/#comment-444211</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[parker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2012 03:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21227#comment-444211</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;It would call attention to the fact that, counter to the administration narrative, al Qaeda is alive and well and..... wanted to preserve their own fiction that the Libyans are friendly and nice and that diplomacy can do just about anything..&quot;

I agree, but I think there is at least one more factor; they may have been afraid of a rescue mission failing and reminding older voters of Carter&#039;s failed rescue mission.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It would call attention to the fact that, counter to the administration narrative, al Qaeda is alive and well and&#8230;.. wanted to preserve their own fiction that the Libyans are friendly and nice and that diplomacy can do just about anything..&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree, but I think there is at least one more factor; they may have been afraid of a rescue mission failing and reminding older voters of Carter&#8217;s failed rescue mission.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/26/will-america-care/#comment-444112</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2012 00:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21227#comment-444112</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wry Mouth: there are several reasons why the administration might not want to send aid.  It would call attention to the fact that, counter to the administration narrative, al Qaeda is alive and well and perpetrating acts such as this (as opposed to a demonstration about a YouTube video being the cause, with no need to send a counter-terrorism team).  In addition, I think it&#039;s quite clear they wanted to keep a low profile vis a vis the Libyans. In fact, I read or heard somewhere today---don&#039;t remember where---that they were specifically waiting for Libyan forces to act.  The administration wanted to preserve their own fiction that the Libyans are friendly and nice and that diplomacy can do just about anything and that everything was going swimmingly there.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wry Mouth: there are several reasons why the administration might not want to send aid.  It would call attention to the fact that, counter to the administration narrative, al Qaeda is alive and well and perpetrating acts such as this (as opposed to a demonstration about a YouTube video being the cause, with no need to send a counter-terrorism team).  In addition, I think it&#8217;s quite clear they wanted to keep a low profile vis a vis the Libyans. In fact, I read or heard somewhere today&#8212;don&#8217;t remember where&#8212;that they were specifically waiting for Libyan forces to act.  The administration wanted to preserve their own fiction that the Libyans are friendly and nice and that diplomacy can do just about anything and that everything was going swimmingly there.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wry Mouth		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/26/will-america-care/#comment-444038</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wry Mouth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2012 22:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21227#comment-444038</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So what does the administration gain from what looks like a &quot;pawn sacrifice?&quot; 


What&#039;s the point? It&#039;s terrible. But why was no aid sent?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what does the administration gain from what looks like a &#8220;pawn sacrifice?&#8221; </p>
<p>What&#8217;s the point? It&#8217;s terrible. But why was no aid sent?</p>
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		<title>
		By: SteveH		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/26/will-america-care/#comment-443736</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SteveH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2012 17:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21227#comment-443736</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I got long time lib friends that are Obama supporters. I could never hate them but i&#039;ll never quite think of them the same way again. Something was irretrievably lost during this debacle.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got long time lib friends that are Obama supporters. I could never hate them but i&#8217;ll never quite think of them the same way again. Something was irretrievably lost during this debacle.</p>
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		<title>
		By: NeoConScum		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/26/will-america-care/#comment-443509</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NeoConScum]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2012 11:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21227#comment-443509</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[rickl(10:56pm)...I don&#039;t buy that nonsense. Nor does Weekly Standard from Friday night.(Bill Kristol)

Your source, bitte?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rickl(10:56pm)&#8230;I don&#8217;t buy that nonsense. Nor does Weekly Standard from Friday night.(Bill Kristol)</p>
<p>Your source, bitte?</p>
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		<title>
		By: parker		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/26/will-america-care/#comment-443390</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[parker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2012 08:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21227#comment-443390</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The tension mounts as we approach the crossroads.  Who will be the captain and toward which direction will the ship of state head?  Onward towards the iceberg or warmer waters?  My meager and unsolicited advise is resist the urge to hate and simultaneously focus on the whites of their eyes. Its all deja vu all over again, our ancestors over the generations have been through this before. Blood looks the same once the veins are opened.  We live in an ever shifting landslide. 

http://tinyurl.com/8ws5d4j]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The tension mounts as we approach the crossroads.  Who will be the captain and toward which direction will the ship of state head?  Onward towards the iceberg or warmer waters?  My meager and unsolicited advise is resist the urge to hate and simultaneously focus on the whites of their eyes. Its all deja vu all over again, our ancestors over the generations have been through this before. Blood looks the same once the veins are opened.  We live in an ever shifting landslide. </p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/8ws5d4j" rel="nofollow ugc">http://tinyurl.com/8ws5d4j</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Jamie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/26/will-america-care/#comment-443288</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jamie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2012 05:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21227#comment-443288</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Let me add that I yield to no one in my dismay over the way this story is shaping up. As it&#039;s been said before, at long last, have they left no sense of decency?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me add that I yield to no one in my dismay over the way this story is shaping up. As it&#8217;s been said before, at long last, have they left no sense of decency?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jamie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/26/will-america-care/#comment-443286</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jamie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2012 05:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21227#comment-443286</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neo, things are getting a little squirrelly here... Free speech is our inalienable right, but incitement to violence, like crying fire in a crowded theater, is over the line, yes? So the question is whether any of the above comments may reasonably be perceived as &quot;incitement,&quot; I guess.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo, things are getting a little squirrelly here&#8230; Free speech is our inalienable right, but incitement to violence, like crying fire in a crowded theater, is over the line, yes? So the question is whether any of the above comments may reasonably be perceived as &#8220;incitement,&#8221; I guess.</p>
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