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	Comments on: Last night&#8217;s debate	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/23/last-nights-debate/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: parker		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/23/last-nights-debate/#comment-440785</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[parker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2012 01:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21124#comment-440785</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;A plumber has critical thinking skills... &quot;

I spent my last 5 years in the field of health physics (radiation safety) at a university with a strong emphasis in research.  I encountered many a PI who was brilliant in their selected field of research.  Yet, when it came to areas outside their expertise, namely radiation safety, they were often ignorant (and reluctant to admit so) or arrogant (and vehemently reluctant to admit so).

BHO is ignorant and arrogant and absolutely could never admit to either flaw. Its not binders that are dangerous, its blinders!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A plumber has critical thinking skills&#8230; &#8221;</p>
<p>I spent my last 5 years in the field of health physics (radiation safety) at a university with a strong emphasis in research.  I encountered many a PI who was brilliant in their selected field of research.  Yet, when it came to areas outside their expertise, namely radiation safety, they were often ignorant (and reluctant to admit so) or arrogant (and vehemently reluctant to admit so).</p>
<p>BHO is ignorant and arrogant and absolutely could never admit to either flaw. Its not binders that are dangerous, its blinders!</p>
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		<title>
		By: T		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/23/last-nights-debate/#comment-440449</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 16:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21124#comment-440449</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kurt,

&quot;. . .far too many academics buy into the theories without questioning their foundations.&quot;

As I noted above, they are &lt;i&gt;theories&lt;/i&gt; not Newtonian laws, but as Occam&#039;s Beard posted earlier, and it should be repeated often: 
&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kurt,</p>
<p>&#8220;. . .far too many academics buy into the theories without questioning their foundations.&#8221;</p>
<p>As I noted above, they are <i>theories</i> not Newtonian laws, but as Occam&#8217;s Beard posted earlier, and it should be repeated often: </p>
<blockquote cite=""><p>In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: Kurt		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/23/last-nights-debate/#comment-440446</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kurt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 16:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21124#comment-440446</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[T: Yes, I left the humanities more than a dozen years ago.  I still work in a university, but not in any academic capacity.  I&#039;ve had to serve time on various university committees and things on occasion, though, and it makes me thankful that my life and work now are very different.

Eric wrote: &lt;i&gt;Keep in mind that academic professionals can be intellectually rigorous within their own fields but be loose thinkers outside of their professional spheres in their personal opinions.&lt;/i&gt;

That is largely true, and it&#039;s one reason why I find &lt;a href=&quot;http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/ion.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Plato&#039;s &quot;Ion&quot;&lt;/a&gt; to be such a worthwhile dialogue to know about, as it is about the limits of specialized skill and knowledge in other areas of life.  Within the humanities today, though, I&#039;d say that Eric&#039;s observation would require even greater qualification as most of the disciplines are so theory-driven, that most academics in those fields know how to be rigorous within the demands of certain fashionable academic theories, but those theories themselves don&#039;t necessarily have much to do with reality or the world at large, aside from the fact that most of them are also pushing political agendas; far too many academics buy into the theories without questioning their foundations.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T: Yes, I left the humanities more than a dozen years ago.  I still work in a university, but not in any academic capacity.  I&#8217;ve had to serve time on various university committees and things on occasion, though, and it makes me thankful that my life and work now are very different.</p>
<p>Eric wrote: <i>Keep in mind that academic professionals can be intellectually rigorous within their own fields but be loose thinkers outside of their professional spheres in their personal opinions.</i></p>
<p>That is largely true, and it&#8217;s one reason why I find <a href="http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/ion.html" rel="nofollow">Plato&#8217;s &#8220;Ion&#8221;</a> to be such a worthwhile dialogue to know about, as it is about the limits of specialized skill and knowledge in other areas of life.  Within the humanities today, though, I&#8217;d say that Eric&#8217;s observation would require even greater qualification as most of the disciplines are so theory-driven, that most academics in those fields know how to be rigorous within the demands of certain fashionable academic theories, but those theories themselves don&#8217;t necessarily have much to do with reality or the world at large, aside from the fact that most of them are also pushing political agendas; far too many academics buy into the theories without questioning their foundations.</p>
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		<title>
		By: T		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/23/last-nights-debate/#comment-440444</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 16:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21124#comment-440444</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Eric wrote:  &quot; . . . academic professionals can be intellectually rigorous within their own fields but be loose thinkers outside of their professional spheres . . . .&quot;

I agree.  I&#039;ve noted in past discussions that what many people deem lack of critical thinking skills might simply be an inability to apply those skills outside of one&#039;s areas of expertise.

A plumber has critical thinking skills, so, too does an electrician and a homemaker.  Such skills don&#039;t necessarily need to be accompanied by a B.S., a Ph.D. or an MD.   In this upcomng election are we seeing a country beginning to put those critical thinking skills to work?

In his book &lt;i&gt;Arrogance&lt;/i&gt; Bernard Goldberg references a study that notes people judge physicians who wear white lab coats superior to physicians who wear blue lab coats.  Goldberg&#039;s reasoning is that people have no basis for judging a superior v. an inferior physician so they grab onto any evidence at hand.

Is this what happened in 2008?  In a wave of media-generated Bush fatigue, did people vote for Obama because he &quot;wore a white lab coat&quot; to McCain&#039;s blue lab coat?  Regardless, now some powerful evidence is in and it appears that the voting public understands that it was snookered in 2008.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric wrote:  &#8221; . . . academic professionals can be intellectually rigorous within their own fields but be loose thinkers outside of their professional spheres . . . .&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree.  I&#8217;ve noted in past discussions that what many people deem lack of critical thinking skills might simply be an inability to apply those skills outside of one&#8217;s areas of expertise.</p>
<p>A plumber has critical thinking skills, so, too does an electrician and a homemaker.  Such skills don&#8217;t necessarily need to be accompanied by a B.S., a Ph.D. or an MD.   In this upcomng election are we seeing a country beginning to put those critical thinking skills to work?</p>
<p>In his book <i>Arrogance</i> Bernard Goldberg references a study that notes people judge physicians who wear white lab coats superior to physicians who wear blue lab coats.  Goldberg&#8217;s reasoning is that people have no basis for judging a superior v. an inferior physician so they grab onto any evidence at hand.</p>
<p>Is this what happened in 2008?  In a wave of media-generated Bush fatigue, did people vote for Obama because he &#8220;wore a white lab coat&#8221; to McCain&#8217;s blue lab coat?  Regardless, now some powerful evidence is in and it appears that the voting public understands that it was snookered in 2008.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/23/last-nights-debate/#comment-440416</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21124#comment-440416</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Baltimoron,

Interesting. Is there something different about the bayonets now? In my time, our firearms were kept in the arms room, of course, but we kept our bayonets with the rest of our gear (ie, clipped on the LBV).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baltimoron,</p>
<p>Interesting. Is there something different about the bayonets now? In my time, our firearms were kept in the arms room, of course, but we kept our bayonets with the rest of our gear (ie, clipped on the LBV).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/23/last-nights-debate/#comment-440408</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21124#comment-440408</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Keep in mind that academic professionals can be intellectually rigorous within their own fields but be loose thinkers outside of their professional spheres in their personal opinions.

Also, many Islamic terrorist leaders have STEM backgrounds.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep in mind that academic professionals can be intellectually rigorous within their own fields but be loose thinkers outside of their professional spheres in their personal opinions.</p>
<p>Also, many Islamic terrorist leaders have STEM backgrounds.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sangiovese		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/23/last-nights-debate/#comment-440320</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sangiovese]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21124#comment-440320</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This thread is a fine example of why I read Neo&#039;s blog.  She has an excellent command of the written word and strong intelligence to back it up.  Her commenters are equally brilliant.  I always learn something when reading this blog.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This thread is a fine example of why I read Neo&#8217;s blog.  She has an excellent command of the written word and strong intelligence to back it up.  Her commenters are equally brilliant.  I always learn something when reading this blog.</p>
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		<title>
		By: T		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/23/last-nights-debate/#comment-440149</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 07:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21124#comment-440149</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kurt,

Late or not, welcome to the discussion.  Since you are using the past tense with regard to your humanities teaching, it seems you are yet another member of the group of &quot;I used to work in the humanities, too.&quot;

I think you make a salient point.  It&#039;s not just the degree work which contributes to critical thinking skills, but being in a position of teaching the material  with some sense of objectivity which also contributes to those skills.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kurt,</p>
<p>Late or not, welcome to the discussion.  Since you are using the past tense with regard to your humanities teaching, it seems you are yet another member of the group of &#8220;I used to work in the humanities, too.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think you make a salient point.  It&#8217;s not just the degree work which contributes to critical thinking skills, but being in a position of teaching the material  with some sense of objectivity which also contributes to those skills.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kurt		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/23/last-nights-debate/#comment-440043</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kurt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 04:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21124#comment-440043</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[parker wrote: &lt;i&gt;Playing to the base has been their biggest error in all 4 debates. Depending upon turn out, there is a possibility that R&#038;R might win 55-45 or even 60-40. R&#038;R have the momentum, I hope they pile on over the next 13 days. I want BHO and his running dog lackeys to feel shunned and chagrined.&lt;/i&gt;

I am certainly hoping for the same sort of outcome.  While 60-40 would be amazing, I&#039;m imagining that the upper end for Romney and Ryan could possibly be 54; Obama could bottom out at 45, with others taking the remaining one percent.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>parker wrote: <i>Playing to the base has been their biggest error in all 4 debates. Depending upon turn out, there is a possibility that R&amp;R might win 55-45 or even 60-40. R&amp;R have the momentum, I hope they pile on over the next 13 days. I want BHO and his running dog lackeys to feel shunned and chagrined.</i></p>
<p>I am certainly hoping for the same sort of outcome.  While 60-40 would be amazing, I&#8217;m imagining that the upper end for Romney and Ryan could possibly be 54; Obama could bottom out at 45, with others taking the remaining one percent.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kurt		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/10/23/last-nights-debate/#comment-440036</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kurt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 04:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=21124#comment-440036</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m way too late to the discussion here about the humanities vs. the sciences.  All of my degrees are in the humanities.  What made the experience of getting a doctorate particularly worthwhile for me, though, was not so much the stuff I was studying, learning, and writing about, but the fact that I spent years teaching basic undergraduate courses, mostly in writing.   Doing so meant I thought and learned a lot about principles of analysis, and more importantly about logic and evidence.  As a result, I became very good at recognizing logical fallacies.  That was how, after I finished my doctorate, while teaching full-time at a small college, I found myself with colleagues who were discussing Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinski scandal and not making the least bit of sense, as most of their premises were absurd, their logic was faulty, and most didn&#039;t even have a basic grasp of the facts.  That was, as I&#039;ve mentioned before, one of the key turning points for me politically, as well.  As a graduate student in the humanities, I naively assumed that my professors were well-informed, reasonable, thoughtful people.  When I had professors as colleagues, though, I recognized how mistaken I had been.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m way too late to the discussion here about the humanities vs. the sciences.  All of my degrees are in the humanities.  What made the experience of getting a doctorate particularly worthwhile for me, though, was not so much the stuff I was studying, learning, and writing about, but the fact that I spent years teaching basic undergraduate courses, mostly in writing.   Doing so meant I thought and learned a lot about principles of analysis, and more importantly about logic and evidence.  As a result, I became very good at recognizing logical fallacies.  That was how, after I finished my doctorate, while teaching full-time at a small college, I found myself with colleagues who were discussing Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinski scandal and not making the least bit of sense, as most of their premises were absurd, their logic was faulty, and most didn&#8217;t even have a basic grasp of the facts.  That was, as I&#8217;ve mentioned before, one of the key turning points for me politically, as well.  As a graduate student in the humanities, I naively assumed that my professors were well-informed, reasonable, thoughtful people.  When I had professors as colleagues, though, I recognized how mistaken I had been.</p>
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