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	Comments on: Obama and the Middle East and the Times	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/09/25/obama-and-the-middle-east/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/09/25/obama-and-the-middle-east/#comment-422675</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J. formerly Jimmy J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 04:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=20360#comment-422675</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[parker said, &quot;Europe, Japan, China, and India are far more dependent upon ME oil than our economy. We get most of our imports from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, and Nigeria.&quot; 

All true. However, oil is a global commodity. If the Middle eastern supplies go down we will suffer the price rises along with everyone else because the prices are determined in commodity markets over which our  government has little control. We could theoretically put price controls on the Chicago commodity exchange, but traders would just go to the ICE in London and oil would go where the prices were highest. 

It would be nice if the market was fragmented and we could just draw up  the gang plank and isolate ourselves from the effects of Middle Eastern oil problems. If you have a plan for that, you should share it with the State Department. 

If we produce more of our oil and Middle Eastern oil keeps flowing then prices will go down.  Remove a portion of ME oil and the total supply goes down with attendant price increases.  There was a time, back in the 70s when the OPEC oil shocks  occurred, that we should have made it our national goal to explore for more of our supplies and to break up the OPEC cartel, but we were too worried about the environment and the USSR to take the necessary steps.  This piece by Robert Zubrin explains what might have been:
http://tinyurl.com/8ftdd56

We need to go on a national crusade to discover more of our oil, break up OPEC, and demand that those who depend on ME  oil (China, Japan, India, Europe) to assume more responsibility for keeping the oil flowing. 

In ten - twenty years we might be able to encourage inter-tribal/intra-Islamic conflcit and not have to worry as much about the energy blowback.  At a gut level, the idea is very appealing to me. 

As someone who spent a good part of my life burning jet fuel and knowing my job security rested on it being reasonably priced and available, I have thought a lot about oil and the part it plays in our security.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>parker said, &#8220;Europe, Japan, China, and India are far more dependent upon ME oil than our economy. We get most of our imports from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, and Nigeria.&#8221; </p>
<p>All true. However, oil is a global commodity. If the Middle eastern supplies go down we will suffer the price rises along with everyone else because the prices are determined in commodity markets over which our  government has little control. We could theoretically put price controls on the Chicago commodity exchange, but traders would just go to the ICE in London and oil would go where the prices were highest. </p>
<p>It would be nice if the market was fragmented and we could just draw up  the gang plank and isolate ourselves from the effects of Middle Eastern oil problems. If you have a plan for that, you should share it with the State Department. </p>
<p>If we produce more of our oil and Middle Eastern oil keeps flowing then prices will go down.  Remove a portion of ME oil and the total supply goes down with attendant price increases.  There was a time, back in the 70s when the OPEC oil shocks  occurred, that we should have made it our national goal to explore for more of our supplies and to break up the OPEC cartel, but we were too worried about the environment and the USSR to take the necessary steps.  This piece by Robert Zubrin explains what might have been:<br />
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/8ftdd56" rel="nofollow ugc">http://tinyurl.com/8ftdd56</a></p>
<p>We need to go on a national crusade to discover more of our oil, break up OPEC, and demand that those who depend on ME  oil (China, Japan, India, Europe) to assume more responsibility for keeping the oil flowing. </p>
<p>In ten &#8211; twenty years we might be able to encourage inter-tribal/intra-Islamic conflcit and not have to worry as much about the energy blowback.  At a gut level, the idea is very appealing to me. </p>
<p>As someone who spent a good part of my life burning jet fuel and knowing my job security rested on it being reasonably priced and available, I have thought a lot about oil and the part it plays in our security.</p>
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		<title>
		By: parker		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/09/25/obama-and-the-middle-east/#comment-422621</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[parker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 01:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=20360#comment-422621</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[JJ formerly says,   &quot;It would be nice if we could foment tribal and sunni/shia conflict in the region to keep the barbarians off our backs, but such conflict on a widepsread basis would probably lead to oil shortages and rising prices. Much as we don’t like to admit it, oil is still the 900 pound gorilla in any strategic planning. Stability is what we want and what our policy is aimed at.&quot;

I understand what you are saying, but I do not buy into that theory.  Europe, Japan, China, and India are far more dependent upon ME oil than our economy.  We get most of our imports from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, and Nigeria. Plus, we know we have domestic and off shore supplies of oil and natural gas waiting to be exploited.  We know that the potential for TS reactors is unlimited.  We refuse to do what needs to be done.

To me, the question is &quot;what stability?&quot;.  IMO there is no such thing as stability. History is a dynamic and ever changing flow of events.  Adapt or wither away.  From my POV we have decided to wither. The world of geopolitics requires a heart of stone.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JJ formerly says,   &#8220;It would be nice if we could foment tribal and sunni/shia conflict in the region to keep the barbarians off our backs, but such conflict on a widepsread basis would probably lead to oil shortages and rising prices. Much as we don’t like to admit it, oil is still the 900 pound gorilla in any strategic planning. Stability is what we want and what our policy is aimed at.&#8221;</p>
<p>I understand what you are saying, but I do not buy into that theory.  Europe, Japan, China, and India are far more dependent upon ME oil than our economy.  We get most of our imports from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, and Nigeria. Plus, we know we have domestic and off shore supplies of oil and natural gas waiting to be exploited.  We know that the potential for TS reactors is unlimited.  We refuse to do what needs to be done.</p>
<p>To me, the question is &#8220;what stability?&#8221;.  IMO there is no such thing as stability. History is a dynamic and ever changing flow of events.  Adapt or wither away.  From my POV we have decided to wither. The world of geopolitics requires a heart of stone.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/09/25/obama-and-the-middle-east/#comment-422518</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2012 19:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=20360#comment-422518</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[DonS: &quot;Thinking through the whole series of events, the Dem behaviour was . . . really something else.&quot;

Yep. The audacity of the Dems duplicity in the service of constructing an anti-Bush narrative for the all-important goal of winning the 2008 presidency is one for the books. 

Look up Samantha Power. Taken off the 2008 campaign as an advisor (on paper) when she slipped from the campaign narrative on Iraq, then promptly brought back into Obama&#039;s presidency in prominent roles in State and the NSC.

Or that Obama kept on the leaders of Bush&#039;s war team (Gates, Petraeus, Mullen, Lute).

Or the things for which Ralph Nader has labeled Obama a &quot;war criminal&quot; and &quot;worse than Bush&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DonS: &#8220;Thinking through the whole series of events, the Dem behaviour was . . . really something else.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yep. The audacity of the Dems duplicity in the service of constructing an anti-Bush narrative for the all-important goal of winning the 2008 presidency is one for the books. </p>
<p>Look up Samantha Power. Taken off the 2008 campaign as an advisor (on paper) when she slipped from the campaign narrative on Iraq, then promptly brought back into Obama&#8217;s presidency in prominent roles in State and the NSC.</p>
<p>Or that Obama kept on the leaders of Bush&#8217;s war team (Gates, Petraeus, Mullen, Lute).</p>
<p>Or the things for which Ralph Nader has labeled Obama a &#8220;war criminal&#8221; and &#8220;worse than Bush&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/09/25/obama-and-the-middle-east/#comment-422498</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2012 18:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=20360#comment-422498</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[KLSmith: &quot;Your post from June 2009 nailed it. Remember how Obama impressed so many by saying he would “talk” to our enemies. As if Bush had never tried diplomacy and just went in with his guns blazing. They are that naive and stupid about almost everything. Or they know the members of their party are.&quot;

The Dems did create a false narrative of Bush&#039;s foreign affairs. Bush was not the one-note unilateralist warmonger painted by the Dems. He deployed diplomatic, military, law enforcement, espionage, economic means and took pains in rallying, and trying to rally, multilateral partners. I believe, perhaps because I&#039;m not a political consultant and don&#039;t know the game, that the GOP has made a major mistake by not defending (at least justifying) Bush&#039;s record, thus giving the appearance of shying away from Bush and tacitly verifying the Dems&#039; false narrative.   

Worse, it&#039;s affected our actual foreign affairs because the Dems, whether or not they actually believe their false narrative on Bush, have to account for it in their real decisions because anti-Bush remains the fallback position of their domestic politics.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KLSmith: &#8220;Your post from June 2009 nailed it. Remember how Obama impressed so many by saying he would “talk” to our enemies. As if Bush had never tried diplomacy and just went in with his guns blazing. They are that naive and stupid about almost everything. Or they know the members of their party are.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Dems did create a false narrative of Bush&#8217;s foreign affairs. Bush was not the one-note unilateralist warmonger painted by the Dems. He deployed diplomatic, military, law enforcement, espionage, economic means and took pains in rallying, and trying to rally, multilateral partners. I believe, perhaps because I&#8217;m not a political consultant and don&#8217;t know the game, that the GOP has made a major mistake by not defending (at least justifying) Bush&#8217;s record, thus giving the appearance of shying away from Bush and tacitly verifying the Dems&#8217; false narrative.   </p>
<p>Worse, it&#8217;s affected our actual foreign affairs because the Dems, whether or not they actually believe their false narrative on Bush, have to account for it in their real decisions because anti-Bush remains the fallback position of their domestic politics.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sam L.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/09/25/obama-and-the-middle-east/#comment-422453</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sam L.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2012 17:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=20360#comment-422453</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Fool AND Knave.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fool AND Knave.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Occam's Beard		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/09/25/obama-and-the-middle-east/#comment-422427</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Occam's Beard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2012 16:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=20360#comment-422427</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;So, your answer was to continue the riots, beatings. and or shootings while america tries to manuever behind the scenes with Mubarik. &lt;/i&gt;

You got it in one.

&lt;i&gt;I’m sure the suspicions of the Eqyptian public won’t catch on. And they will be patient&lt;/i&gt;

Please. They already viewed Mubarak as an American puppet, and some wanted to put him on the Sadat plan. (I once was in the airport at Luxor when Mubarak arrived, unexpected and unannounced (for security reasons). His security was a phalanx half a dozen deep, and they meant business. The Egyptian public had no illusions about Mubarak, and would have had none about any successor to him.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So, your answer was to continue the riots, beatings. and or shootings while america tries to manuever behind the scenes with Mubarik. </i></p>
<p>You got it in one.</p>
<p><i>I’m sure the suspicions of the Eqyptian public won’t catch on. And they will be patient</i></p>
<p>Please. They already viewed Mubarak as an American puppet, and some wanted to put him on the Sadat plan. (I once was in the airport at Luxor when Mubarak arrived, unexpected and unannounced (for security reasons). His security was a phalanx half a dozen deep, and they meant business. The Egyptian public had no illusions about Mubarak, and would have had none about any successor to him.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/09/25/obama-and-the-middle-east/#comment-422424</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2012 15:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=20360#comment-422424</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[M of Hollywood: what you&#039;re saying is that Obama&#039;s immature.

I agree.  But he sure isn&#039;t young.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M of Hollywood: what you&#8217;re saying is that Obama&#8217;s immature.</p>
<p>I agree.  But he sure isn&#8217;t young.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bob from Virginia		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/09/25/obama-and-the-middle-east/#comment-422397</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob from Virginia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2012 14:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=20360#comment-422397</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Boots, Menachim Begin was not assassinated.  You must be thinking of Yizhak Rabin who was murdered for his deal with the Palestinians not Egyptians. Otherwise you&#039;re right, Obama is destroying generations of work in the middle east.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boots, Menachim Begin was not assassinated.  You must be thinking of Yizhak Rabin who was murdered for his deal with the Palestinians not Egyptians. Otherwise you&#8217;re right, Obama is destroying generations of work in the middle east.</p>
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		<title>
		By: M of Hollywood		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/09/25/obama-and-the-middle-east/#comment-422395</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M of Hollywood]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2012 14:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=20360#comment-422395</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[complexity complexity.
I read &quot;he doesn&#039;t think much&quot; I agree.  I read &quot;there were no good options.&quot;  I agree. I read &quot;oil&quot; I agree.  I read &quot;domestic optics&quot; I agree heartily.  I read &quot;fenestration&quot; I think oh that must be it.  I read &quot;He&#039;s young&quot; or &quot;He&#039;s not that young&quot; - and I take pause . . . 
Forget the age in numbers:   O is young in that he has never endured an adult de-frocking.  The only de-frocking he had was that he had no &#039;dad&#039; except for &#039;Frank&#039; - and that was complicated with Frank&#039;s relationship to Stanley.  But since he got away from that mother&#039;s nest, such as it was, he has endured no adult humbling.  He sailed through college to Chicago to the White House due to his own skills at realizing (as deSouza puts it) that he can make people feel good about themselves coupled with the historical moment when he came of age.  Nothing has not worked.  His adorers, from Mad Madonna to Tom Brokaw to Valerie keep him in the glow of adoration - he has been SUCH an answer them.  So he still trusts his intelligence, such as it is.  But he has no wisdom.  Wisdom comes from humility--and thus far life has not delivered him this gift.  Until it does, the world endures his strong and immature intelligence and his natural penchant for self-indulgence and basket ball. Neither he nor the world yet realizes how much he and we would gain from a come-uppance.  He has never yet had one!  Most of us are de-frocked by the time we reach age fifty -- but not O.  The only thing that would cause the wax that holds on his wings to melt would be to lose in November.  Then, perhaps, we could see something better than Carter from him.  Well, perhaps, just perhaps.  Otherwise we ride the pendulum from what he views as American agressive colonialism to what he views as &quot;the answer&quot; which is some version of Berkeley &quot;consciousness raising&quot; and &quot;fairness.&quot;   Oy vey.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>complexity complexity.<br />
I read &#8220;he doesn&#8217;t think much&#8221; I agree.  I read &#8220;there were no good options.&#8221;  I agree. I read &#8220;oil&#8221; I agree.  I read &#8220;domestic optics&#8221; I agree heartily.  I read &#8220;fenestration&#8221; I think oh that must be it.  I read &#8220;He&#8217;s young&#8221; or &#8220;He&#8217;s not that young&#8221; &#8211; and I take pause . . .<br />
Forget the age in numbers:   O is young in that he has never endured an adult de-frocking.  The only de-frocking he had was that he had no &#8216;dad&#8217; except for &#8216;Frank&#8217; &#8211; and that was complicated with Frank&#8217;s relationship to Stanley.  But since he got away from that mother&#8217;s nest, such as it was, he has endured no adult humbling.  He sailed through college to Chicago to the White House due to his own skills at realizing (as deSouza puts it) that he can make people feel good about themselves coupled with the historical moment when he came of age.  Nothing has not worked.  His adorers, from Mad Madonna to Tom Brokaw to Valerie keep him in the glow of adoration &#8211; he has been SUCH an answer them.  So he still trusts his intelligence, such as it is.  But he has no wisdom.  Wisdom comes from humility&#8211;and thus far life has not delivered him this gift.  Until it does, the world endures his strong and immature intelligence and his natural penchant for self-indulgence and basket ball. Neither he nor the world yet realizes how much he and we would gain from a come-uppance.  He has never yet had one!  Most of us are de-frocked by the time we reach age fifty &#8212; but not O.  The only thing that would cause the wax that holds on his wings to melt would be to lose in November.  Then, perhaps, we could see something better than Carter from him.  Well, perhaps, just perhaps.  Otherwise we ride the pendulum from what he views as American agressive colonialism to what he views as &#8220;the answer&#8221; which is some version of Berkeley &#8220;consciousness raising&#8221; and &#8220;fairness.&#8221;   Oy vey.</p>
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		<title>
		By: thomass		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/09/25/obama-and-the-middle-east/#comment-422259</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thomass]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2012 06:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=20360#comment-422259</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Occam&#039;s Beard Says: 

&quot;Apart from that, Hispanics and blacks are pretty much at each others’ throats, at least here in CA.&quot;

I&#039;m in CA and I know what you mean. It will probably be the cause of a future progressive misstep that will set them back for a generation. Tossing the African American bloc under the bus in favor of courting Hispanics. They&#039;ll see the big total number of Hispanics and forget that the smaller 11% of the population African American group vote for them in the 90% range. I saw initial bits of it starting when the dems made their last amnesty push. Anyways; apologies all for the crude racial politics but that&#039;s the reality the progressives have created... and forced on us.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Occam&#8217;s Beard Says: </p>
<p>&#8220;Apart from that, Hispanics and blacks are pretty much at each others’ throats, at least here in CA.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in CA and I know what you mean. It will probably be the cause of a future progressive misstep that will set them back for a generation. Tossing the African American bloc under the bus in favor of courting Hispanics. They&#8217;ll see the big total number of Hispanics and forget that the smaller 11% of the population African American group vote for them in the 90% range. I saw initial bits of it starting when the dems made their last amnesty push. Anyways; apologies all for the crude racial politics but that&#8217;s the reality the progressives have created&#8230; and forced on us.</p>
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