My “evacuated” statement (i.e. vacated) referred to the Cairo embassy, NOT the Benghazi consulate. I never said the Benghazi consulate had been evacuated or vacated or anything of the sort. The Benghazi consulate is where the ambassador to Libya (Stevens) was. The ambassador to Egypt was not in the Cairo embassy during the demonstration there, and that is the embassy that I said they had vacated (“evacuated”).

I thought that was clear.

if it was vacated then the ambassador would not be there… normally ambassadors are not in consuls, they are in embassies. so someone withdrew the guards while there was an official whose protection was the norm.

so it wasnt evacuated in any sense..
if so, all that would happen was property damage
AND They would have destroyed the records, and any machinery and equipment… (Thats protocol)

you keep wanting to turn it, but your not arguing from knowing protocol, your just stating stuff that ignores it.

your not understanding the different world that the miltary and state create as part of a consulate or embassy. it does not follow te rules of a business, or how YOU would do things.

it has 128 years of history and rule making and they back up those rules with a different court!!! ie. not even a civilian court…

even in the common sense evacutaion means everyone leaves. everyeond didnt leave.. two. decommission is when everyone leaves and so the MSG is the last out.

analysing a military situation using civilian ideas and imagination doesnt work. its what the left does and what we are conditioned to have.

in each case your refutations of my points were not refutations… in the first set you calimed that fox news and about.com had the answer… i said the MSG themselves and state department does and go there.

you been defending the positions of the left thorugh the press and such, and then playing games.

the compound was NOT evacuated in EITHER Sense… your boss tellign you not to come in the next day due to snow, is not evacuating the premises. is he? no one would get that call, and then call their friends and say the office was evactuated.. would they?

evacuated, whether military, civilian, or the medical bowel movement ALL mean EMPTY…

if something is left, its not evacuated, in all three definitions.

so that point was not valid either.
i have conceded before on points, but i dont conceded a debate when the debater hasnt made their case.

even if the compoind was owned by mcdonalds, someone has to make the choice or forget to make the choice as to what security is… duh.

in this setting they have reams and reams of paper protocols… just as pilots have check lists before take off… so they DONT forget…

meanwhile…

they attacked yemen compounds now.

ever read history of the sultans and Islam? doubt it, but i would recommend it as the tactics there would be culturally known by the people playing games, and you keep wanting your enemy to be like you…

ergo your statement i am not Machiavellian enough. great.. .then bow out on your assessments as your saying openly you cant think like them…

in THAT part of the world there are lots of stories and such that people grow up on, and many of them consist of assassinations and intrigue… and common to many of them is the sudden absence of guards or protection.

that situations were orchestrated by specific decisions to create weak situations.

ie. create a fertile atmosphere and nudge a bit to get what you want so you establish it passive aggressively and can pretend the role in it you need to work.

specifically this is why the Turks and such hired the Latvians to be guards, and so did the Czars!

they could not trust their own people, and hired men from outside were more trustworthy. so royals of these areas were generally protected not by their own, but by others who have no vested interest in the struggles of that state.

all this would be common to Asian history… as in japan and other places, assassinations were orchestrated not to just have outside work, but inside too…
[edited for length by n-n]

bowing to dictators and appeasement abroad

Let’s not forget the abysmal treatment of our closest allies — not merely Israel, but also the UK, where

1) Their PM met with the president, so an exchange of gifts is protocol — The PM gives US/The PotUS a pen set from the sister ship of the one that the desk in the oval office is made from, and which was given to the USA over a century ago. We give HIM… a set of 200 movies on DVD… which, BTW, aren’t in the format used in the UK (called “PAL”), but American NTSC format, hence unplayable without a special player (not included) …

2) THEN, on a later visit TO the UK, there’s a similarly inanely incompetent gaffe (no, he actually STILL didn’t learn to pay attention to his protocol experts after the FIRST round of embarrassing idiocies!!) as The President gives the Queen an iPod filled with… yeah, just what everyone needed — HIS speeches.

3) To trump two stupidities at that level kind of takes real skill, but Michelle manages it when she touches The Queen. In case you didn’t know this, IT’S just NOT done…

So by no means should anyone forget what a totally stupid, incompetent hack he’s been on EVERY level of foreign policy…

To withdraw or send away (troops or inhabitants) from a threatened area.
4. To withdraw or depart from; vacate.
v.intr.
1. To withdraw from or vacate a place or area, especially as a protective measure.

The personnel were withdrawn from the area for their protection, temporarily. It was vacated: temporarily. I think it is very clear I was referring to that, not to something more.

I have specifically said that they should have made the choice to guard the Benghazi consulate, and did not.

The only thing we are arguing over is whether a consulate ordinarily has Marine guards on duty there as a matter of course. They do not.

I’m not going to spend more time arguing about such a small point. We agree about the fundamental issue, which is that the consulate could have been guarded and should have been guarded, given the situation in a country such as Libya. It is a disgrace that it was not.

He’s a second rate politician, an inexperienced sophomoric hack, out of his depth. And totally overwhelmed.

I HALF agree with you davisbr

but i have a slightly different take…

the people who are used by the socialist system, think that they are selected for how great they are.

they tend to think that the soviet saw them, and is helping them and together they achieve something

but in truth, he is being used.

and when an incident like t his happens and his handlers and such didnt warn him, and he is left hanging and so on…

you get a sudden aching feeling that maybe your not so great, you have been used, and that things are not going to turn out the way you thought they would when you thought you were selected for…

at that point, you figure out that you are NOT in control.

in fact, you find out that your the post turtle.

when you drive down the road, and you see a turtle on a post. you know he didn’t get up their himself and he cant get off himself either.

all your seeing is the post turtle realizing that when they lifted him up from the mud to place him, where they were placing him, he would serve them and be helpless…

yes i am
not only did i tell you they ARE guarded..
but i showed that the marines point out that EVERY embassy has a officer that ALSO oversees every consulate.

i am showing you the law, the missions, and such, and your refusing to conclude that someone, someplace, had to make the choice NOT to guard it.

this was a NEW consulate, opened this year by hillary (and msg offcers were there). it was in a state in flux, and its unlikely that they were not using it to collect infomration on the street..

ALL this requires MSG the RSO, and the SDU…

ie. i know how consulates work, and what the rules are and the work they do in the back end besides the front they show people. I have known several consulate workers. a friend worked in a consulate in senegal… TODAY, i bumped into a woman from the indonesian consulate/embassy in ny who knows my wife.

i am basically coming from the rules, regulations and such that are supposed to be in effect. if not, then there is someone ordering it, or ordering the person who gives orders there, to act.

many of the consulates are only guarded by two people… which is why the number seems low, and they are not the only ones.

but still.. even with only one marine…
he would not run, and he will not stand and not protect them…

As far as I can see, the Cairo embassy ought to have had Marine guards as a matter of course (unlike the Benghazi consultate).

I dont know where you get your information (ignoring fox and about.com), but the MSG website and such do not agree with you. nor does their mission statement… nor do the deployed commanders that served as MSG in THAT consulate before it was closed and later re-opened.

Let me clear this up easy.
your references you keep going to are FOX / About.com / MiamiHerald

my references are US marines, State department, MSG website.. facebook pages of the officers that served in that consulate…

do you see the problem here?
in one breath we discuss the fact that the press is crappy, and down right wrong… and openly willing to lie…

and in another breath, we ignore that and use them as a reference when they say what we need.

now… which do you think is correct? the Marines themselves bragging about themselves and by law having a website that HAS to tell you the facts about them, their mission, etc.

OR

fox news which lies, but less
about.com – of which, if you read the marine website, was build from old information from there, and never updated.
Miamiherald

SOURCES MATTER…

the miamiherald is a paper that played the game…
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-charge-george-zimmerman-manslaughter/story?id=16011674

they used the young trayvon picture, they ran with the left line… and how many newspapers report military anything well?

the lesser of two evils is still evil

basically your using the miami herald reporter as proof the marine government website is wrong.

so why not write to the marines and tell them they are wrong too? as i am getting my information from them, not the herald, the ny times, huffington, etc..
when i use them, i only use them when they are saying the truth… or to illustrate some screwed up thing they do.

you have NOT gotten it yet, or realized yet, that these newspapers were reporting your point as fast as they can.

why?

then obama and his administration cant be blamed. your confusing newspapers pravda game to save the election and the president… with reality.

the left, when everyone, including you asks why they were not protected… in a new location. (which has to be protected before you move in to prevent what the soviets did to our embassies and consulates)…

foreign entities protect the OUTSIDE.

they are not allowed inside… where ‘arts’ are practiced, where there are listening stations, and so on..

i am explaining how that system works, what is done there, how new the location is, who protects it, who leads the protectors, what the chain of command is, and so on.

and all you give me is a sentence you blindly believe from the miami herald that doesnt explain anything.

yes. maybe the us consulate in Canada is not protected /so now the article is ‘truthful’ not all are. and the US consulate on the island of pago pago might not be..

but the consulate in norway is…

but the embassy and consulate in a Islamic nation with a coupe, where intelligence is being gathered, and ambassadors are stationed (not all consulates have ambassadors either!!)

and the mission statement of the marines says they DO protect consulates, and the website points out that in the past they didn’t have enough troops, but today they do. (and that they have other military areas that are also involved)

i am still befuddled why you think the miami herald leftist newspaper people who learned journalism was what lippman said is better than the marines themselves?

By the way, the Cairo embassy had been evacuated by the time of the major demonstrations there

yes.. you used my link..
but you did NOT read it right..

they did NOT EVACUATE…

you changed that… the word evacuate is not even on the page… (go ahead search it)

sending the staff home, is NOT evacuation…
evacuation is taking them out of the country and closing the embassy/consulate

these words have specific meanings.
and to call – sending people home an evacuation shows your changing the meanings of the events not transmitting things as they are or were said.

and by the way… when they evacuate, the LAST to leave are the few marines.. how can you forget that when you wrote about that with vietnam? it was the same in somalia.

the paragraph prior to the one you quote:
In Washington, State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said Egyptian police had removed the demonstrators who entered the embassy grounds. She also condemned the attack on the consulate in Libya “in the strongest terms.”

yes… they did.. what they do is grab them, and turn them over at the gate. the police are not allowed into the compound any more than your allowed to cross the border into north korea.

to enter a consulate or an embassy is to leave the country your in, and enter the country of that consulate. so to enter the US consulate anywhere, is to leave wherever you are, and enter the US… which is why they require passports and immigration people are stationed…

Sending people home is not an evacuation…

e·vac·u·ate – Military definition – to withdraw from or quit (a town, fort, etc., that has been occupied).

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/evacuate

they did NOT evacuate… it has a specific meaning to the people that are talking to the news.

i am sorry neo, but all they did was send the people at the office home for the day so they would not travel thorugh the crowd to the gates.

they did not abandone or evacuate the consulate…
(that would have been reported as such)

the MSG, by their mission statement for more than 100 years have protected embassies and consulates and will continue to do so.

however.

my point and you keep missing it is. the military is not autonomous. it does not make choices as to what the state department wants in terms of MSG.

whatever happens – SOMEONE has to order it.

if on the bottom, then they did so illegally
if on the top, then the miamy herald and others are protecting them by causing many people to go “oh” and not think any more

but ultimately… someone made the choice to pull the protection there. not protect it, or tell those there not to.

even if there was 1 marine..
he would die rather than break his order and discrace the corps

my sister married a marine (and later they divorced amicably)… i spent a lot of time with them.

Semper fidelis!!!!!!!!

No, neither do I. But in the presser this morning, the president appeared obviously shaken.

I can’t believe it was because Stevens was a friend of his.

I think he has stared into the Abyss.

The most sympathy I can stir though, is that he seems to have recognized that things have spiraled out of control.

He’s a second rate politician, an inexperienced sophomoric hack, out of his depth. And totally overwhelmed.

For the second time in 30 years, we have an utterly incompetent individual presiding during a moment of historical crisis.

The fault dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.

Once again in our history as a nation, this is stark.

The American electorate might yet be the demise of the American Experiment …and of the West.

This may not end well. It certainly won’t end soon.