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	Comments on: So, is being fat incurable?	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/07/14/so-is-being-fat-incurable/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Don Carlos		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/07/14/so-is-being-fat-incurable/#comment-384116</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don Carlos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 15:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=17974#comment-384116</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[LJ-
You&#039;re mixing your apples and oranges! When talking Type I diabetes and how insulin works, don&#039;t veer off target!
Persons with high energy input needs benefit from fats more than proteins or carbs, for the reason that fats yield 9 cal/gm, while proteins and carbs yield only 4.

E.M.H. has it exactly right: Non-compliance.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LJ-<br />
You&#8217;re mixing your apples and oranges! When talking Type I diabetes and how insulin works, don&#8217;t veer off target!<br />
Persons with high energy input needs benefit from fats more than proteins or carbs, for the reason that fats yield 9 cal/gm, while proteins and carbs yield only 4.</p>
<p>E.M.H. has it exactly right: Non-compliance.</p>
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		<title>
		By: E.M.H.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/07/14/so-is-being-fat-incurable/#comment-384058</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[E.M.H.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=17974#comment-384058</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ok, I love Cracked.com. I really do. They&#039;re hilarious, they&#039;re pitch-perfect in mixing irreverency with pointed remarks and making gut-bustingly funny points. I often get lost in their site for hours at a time.

But one thing they&#039;re not is &lt;i&gt;accurate&lt;/i&gt;. 

The article came out and said &quot;incurable&quot;, but that&#039;s a lousy term to use. That&#039;s actually contradicted by one of the very links the author uses:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Wing says that she agrees that physiological changes probably do occur that make permanent weight loss difficult, but she says the larger problem is environmental, and that people struggle to keep weight off because they are surrounded by food, inundated with food messages and constantly presented with opportunities to eat. “We live in an environment with food cues all the time,” Wing says. “We’ve taught ourselves over the years that one of the ways to reward yourself is with food. It’s hard to change the environment and the behavior.” &lt;/blockquote&gt;

One of the cited sources contradicts the premise. The state of being fat is not &quot;incurable&quot;. It&#039;s merely very, Very, VERY difficult to fix permanently.

The ultimate problem is not that biology absolutely dictates that a person cannot do anything about being fat. It&#039;s that dieting has n incredibly high rate of failure. Like Neo here said: Recidivism. The crux of the problem is behavioral. We&#039;re all too undisciplined to keep up with it, and we&#039;re all too surrounded by pressures contrary to losing weight. 

This is not to diminish the problem. The issue of discipline and pressures is indeed real and immense. I myself have troubles eating properly and exercising regularly, and I have a medical reason (diabetes) to be diligent about such control. Even &lt;i&gt;with&lt;/i&gt; the added stick of health issues, I do find it painfully hard at times to do things right. 

But that said, I also recognize that the fault is a conscious, behavioral one. So it&#039;s one ultimately in my control, even though said control is difficult in the extreme at times. It&#039;s not a real impossibility, it&#039;s simply a practical difficulty, albeit a large one.

So, what&#039;s the answer? I don&#039;t know; again, I said I myself fail frequently. My point isn&#039;t that there&#039;s any answer, it&#039;s that there&#039;s an exaggeration and a misleading argument in the article. The only real point the author made is that being fat has in the past proven to be statistically incurable. But we know the reasons why this is so, and we know that it&#039;s not actually biologically, physiologically &lt;b&gt;incurable&lt;/b&gt;. We know that it&#039;s simply an extremely high rate of failure to keep with the ongoing regimen. In short, in medical terms, the high rate of failure is due to &lt;i&gt;noncompliance&lt;/i&gt;, and that&#039;s not the same thing as being truly &quot;incurable&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, I love Cracked.com. I really do. They&#8217;re hilarious, they&#8217;re pitch-perfect in mixing irreverency with pointed remarks and making gut-bustingly funny points. I often get lost in their site for hours at a time.</p>
<p>But one thing they&#8217;re not is <i>accurate</i>. </p>
<p>The article came out and said &#8220;incurable&#8221;, but that&#8217;s a lousy term to use. That&#8217;s actually contradicted by one of the very links the author uses:</p>
<blockquote><p>Wing says that she agrees that physiological changes probably do occur that make permanent weight loss difficult, but she says the larger problem is environmental, and that people struggle to keep weight off because they are surrounded by food, inundated with food messages and constantly presented with opportunities to eat. “We live in an environment with food cues all the time,” Wing says. “We’ve taught ourselves over the years that one of the ways to reward yourself is with food. It’s hard to change the environment and the behavior.” </p></blockquote>
<p>One of the cited sources contradicts the premise. The state of being fat is not &#8220;incurable&#8221;. It&#8217;s merely very, Very, VERY difficult to fix permanently.</p>
<p>The ultimate problem is not that biology absolutely dictates that a person cannot do anything about being fat. It&#8217;s that dieting has n incredibly high rate of failure. Like Neo here said: Recidivism. The crux of the problem is behavioral. We&#8217;re all too undisciplined to keep up with it, and we&#8217;re all too surrounded by pressures contrary to losing weight. </p>
<p>This is not to diminish the problem. The issue of discipline and pressures is indeed real and immense. I myself have troubles eating properly and exercising regularly, and I have a medical reason (diabetes) to be diligent about such control. Even <i>with</i> the added stick of health issues, I do find it painfully hard at times to do things right. </p>
<p>But that said, I also recognize that the fault is a conscious, behavioral one. So it&#8217;s one ultimately in my control, even though said control is difficult in the extreme at times. It&#8217;s not a real impossibility, it&#8217;s simply a practical difficulty, albeit a large one.</p>
<p>So, what&#8217;s the answer? I don&#8217;t know; again, I said I myself fail frequently. My point isn&#8217;t that there&#8217;s any answer, it&#8217;s that there&#8217;s an exaggeration and a misleading argument in the article. The only real point the author made is that being fat has in the past proven to be statistically incurable. But we know the reasons why this is so, and we know that it&#8217;s not actually biologically, physiologically <b>incurable</b>. We know that it&#8217;s simply an extremely high rate of failure to keep with the ongoing regimen. In short, in medical terms, the high rate of failure is due to <i>noncompliance</i>, and that&#8217;s not the same thing as being truly &#8220;incurable&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: LJ		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/07/14/so-is-being-fat-incurable/#comment-383916</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 05:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=17974#comment-383916</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Don Carlos - Thanks for the clarification.  We might be talking apples and oranges, but I think we are aiming at the same fruit salad! :)  

As you mentioned, insulin is necessary for the glucose to get into the cells and it is also necessary for fat storage.  I think you would agree that while the whole metabolic process involves more than just insulin (such as the bowel enzymes), insulin is the key (dominate) hormone in both the body&#039;s successful use of energy and (over-)storage of fat.  

Type 1 diabetics clearly must control insulin intake for good health since they are deficient in insulin.  But what about folks on the other end of the spectrum, who are producing too much insulin?  They need to try and control how much insulin is in their body as well. 

So, the idea I was aiming at is that the control point needs to be regarding the body&#039;s production of insulin, because it is such a dominate hormone.  

Since proteins and fats don&#039;t trigger insulin production, one way to bring insulin over-production under control (and potentially regain insulin sensitivity in cells which have become insulin resistant - such as in type 2 diabetics) is to make fats and proteins a larger percentage of your diet and reduce the carbs so less insulin production is triggered.  The weight loss is really just a side effect of correcting the metabolic imbalance.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Don Carlos &#8211; Thanks for the clarification.  We might be talking apples and oranges, but I think we are aiming at the same fruit salad! 🙂  </p>
<p>As you mentioned, insulin is necessary for the glucose to get into the cells and it is also necessary for fat storage.  I think you would agree that while the whole metabolic process involves more than just insulin (such as the bowel enzymes), insulin is the key (dominate) hormone in both the body&#8217;s successful use of energy and (over-)storage of fat.  </p>
<p>Type 1 diabetics clearly must control insulin intake for good health since they are deficient in insulin.  But what about folks on the other end of the spectrum, who are producing too much insulin?  They need to try and control how much insulin is in their body as well. </p>
<p>So, the idea I was aiming at is that the control point needs to be regarding the body&#8217;s production of insulin, because it is such a dominate hormone.  </p>
<p>Since proteins and fats don&#8217;t trigger insulin production, one way to bring insulin over-production under control (and potentially regain insulin sensitivity in cells which have become insulin resistant &#8211; such as in type 2 diabetics) is to make fats and proteins a larger percentage of your diet and reduce the carbs so less insulin production is triggered.  The weight loss is really just a side effect of correcting the metabolic imbalance.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Beverly		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/07/14/so-is-being-fat-incurable/#comment-383912</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Beverly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 05:31:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=17974#comment-383912</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[For anyone who&#039;s bottomed out: try Overeaters Anonymous. Seriously. Patterned on AA, and it&#039;s free. My sister was able to stay comfortably abstinent from compulsive eating for 28 years.

Key word there: comfortably. Took her a while to get traction, but once she did, she never looked back.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For anyone who&#8217;s bottomed out: try Overeaters Anonymous. Seriously. Patterned on AA, and it&#8217;s free. My sister was able to stay comfortably abstinent from compulsive eating for 28 years.</p>
<p>Key word there: comfortably. Took her a while to get traction, but once she did, she never looked back.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Don Carlos		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/07/14/so-is-being-fat-incurable/#comment-383824</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don Carlos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2012 22:17:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=17974#comment-383824</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Further, carb counting counts grams of carbohydrates-which are converted to sugars.

Calories counts energy per gram, which proteins and fats and carbs all yield. But ingested fats and proteins have no need for insulin to supply their metabolic values. 1 calorie raises the temp of 1 gram of water 1 degree C.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Further, carb counting counts grams of carbohydrates-which are converted to sugars.</p>
<p>Calories counts energy per gram, which proteins and fats and carbs all yield. But ingested fats and proteins have no need for insulin to supply their metabolic values. 1 calorie raises the temp of 1 gram of water 1 degree C.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Don Carlos		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/07/14/so-is-being-fat-incurable/#comment-383805</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don Carlos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2012 21:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=17974#comment-383805</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[LJ-
As an internist, among my other certifications, I must correct you about how insulin works. Insulin does NOT convert carbs to glucose. Bowel enzymes do that. All carbs-All- are polymerized sugars. Sucrose (table sugar) is a very small polymer of two sugar molecules hooked together.

The reason your son counts carbs, as I do for the same reason, is to figure (indirectly) how much insulin to take to deal with the (polymerized sugar) carbohydrate load he&#039;s fixing to eat.

Insulin is the key that allows entry of glucose (a sugar) into cells. Without insulin, such diabetics&#039; organs are starving in the midst of plenty; their blood sugars are high,high.  Exercise has the same &quot;key&quot; effect; thus insulin-dependent diabetics will become hypoglycemic, indeed dangerously so, after substantial exercise if they have not lowered their insulin intake or boosted their blood sugar first.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LJ-<br />
As an internist, among my other certifications, I must correct you about how insulin works. Insulin does NOT convert carbs to glucose. Bowel enzymes do that. All carbs-All- are polymerized sugars. Sucrose (table sugar) is a very small polymer of two sugar molecules hooked together.</p>
<p>The reason your son counts carbs, as I do for the same reason, is to figure (indirectly) how much insulin to take to deal with the (polymerized sugar) carbohydrate load he&#8217;s fixing to eat.</p>
<p>Insulin is the key that allows entry of glucose (a sugar) into cells. Without insulin, such diabetics&#8217; organs are starving in the midst of plenty; their blood sugars are high,high.  Exercise has the same &#8220;key&#8221; effect; thus insulin-dependent diabetics will become hypoglycemic, indeed dangerously so, after substantial exercise if they have not lowered their insulin intake or boosted their blood sugar first.</p>
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		<title>
		By: holmes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/07/14/so-is-being-fat-incurable/#comment-383803</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[holmes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2012 21:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=17974#comment-383803</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think once you are really overweight, it is difficult to return/stay thin.  The key is not getting there to begin with.  But otherwise, it&#039;s not a diet, it&#039;s a lifestyle change.  We&#039;re in a world with infinite calories available for the taking for the rest of our lives; we&#039;re constantly making diet decisions.    I think Gary Taubes&#039; diet makes sense for these folks.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think once you are really overweight, it is difficult to return/stay thin.  The key is not getting there to begin with.  But otherwise, it&#8217;s not a diet, it&#8217;s a lifestyle change.  We&#8217;re in a world with infinite calories available for the taking for the rest of our lives; we&#8217;re constantly making diet decisions.    I think Gary Taubes&#8217; diet makes sense for these folks.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gringo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/07/14/so-is-being-fat-incurable/#comment-383773</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gringo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2012 19:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=17974#comment-383773</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The issue of losing weight and keeping it off reminds me of Mark Twain&#039;s crack about smoking. &quot;It is easy to quit smoking. I have done it hundreds of time.&quot;

My experience with losing weight and keeping it off has led me to this conclusion. 1) If you do not exercise, you will not maintain the weight loss. 2) Walking 2 miles a day will maintain the weight loss.  Very simple. 

While I weigh more than I did 20 years ago, I weigh less than I did in high school.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue of losing weight and keeping it off reminds me of Mark Twain&#8217;s crack about smoking. &#8220;It is easy to quit smoking. I have done it hundreds of time.&#8221;</p>
<p>My experience with losing weight and keeping it off has led me to this conclusion. 1) If you do not exercise, you will not maintain the weight loss. 2) Walking 2 miles a day will maintain the weight loss.  Very simple. </p>
<p>While I weigh more than I did 20 years ago, I weigh less than I did in high school.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Julie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/07/14/so-is-being-fat-incurable/#comment-383734</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Julie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2012 17:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=17974#comment-383734</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think you&#039;re right about the individual differences, Neo, which was why I added the qualifier &quot;for me.&quot; Others do far better eating more fruits and fewer fats, etc. I suspect, however, that the modern diet of foods that are highly processed doesn&#039;t do many people any favors, regardless of what the macronutrient breakdown may be.

It strikes me as patently ridiculous that everyone&#039;s body responds to foods in exactly the same way, so I think the key for most people is to consider where their ancestors came from and what they thrived on, food-wise. And of course, there are plenty of people who really do have a heavier build and there isn&#039;t much they can do about it. However, I don&#039;t buy for a moment that that is the case for virtually everyone. I disagree strongly  that weight is destiny, as the article suggests.

I know too many people who have had long-term success at losing weight and mostly keeping it off to believe that there is nothing that can be done.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re right about the individual differences, Neo, which was why I added the qualifier &#8220;for me.&#8221; Others do far better eating more fruits and fewer fats, etc. I suspect, however, that the modern diet of foods that are highly processed doesn&#8217;t do many people any favors, regardless of what the macronutrient breakdown may be.</p>
<p>It strikes me as patently ridiculous that everyone&#8217;s body responds to foods in exactly the same way, so I think the key for most people is to consider where their ancestors came from and what they thrived on, food-wise. And of course, there are plenty of people who really do have a heavier build and there isn&#8217;t much they can do about it. However, I don&#8217;t buy for a moment that that is the case for virtually everyone. I disagree strongly  that weight is destiny, as the article suggests.</p>
<p>I know too many people who have had long-term success at losing weight and mostly keeping it off to believe that there is nothing that can be done.</p>
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		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/07/14/so-is-being-fat-incurable/#comment-383723</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2012 16:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=17974#comment-383723</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve written several times before about my experience with low-carb diets.  I&#039;ve tried several types.

The summary version is that they don&#039;t work for me in terms of weight loss, and they also make me ill.  There are a lot of people like that.  I&#039;m firmly convinced that people&#039;s heredity and physiology are different, and although a certain percentage do well on those diets many many don&#039;t at all.

See &lt;a href=&quot;http://neoneocon.com/2011/07/02/the-atkins-diet-and-me/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; for my story.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve written several times before about my experience with low-carb diets.  I&#8217;ve tried several types.</p>
<p>The summary version is that they don&#8217;t work for me in terms of weight loss, and they also make me ill.  There are a lot of people like that.  I&#8217;m firmly convinced that people&#8217;s heredity and physiology are different, and although a certain percentage do well on those diets many many don&#8217;t at all.</p>
<p>See <a href="http://neoneocon.com/2011/07/02/the-atkins-diet-and-me/" rel="nofollow">this</a> for my story.</p>
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