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	Comments on: Heartlandgate, memos, and writing styles	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/02/25/heartlandgate-memos-and-writing-styles/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: J Bowers		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/02/25/heartlandgate-memos-and-writing-styles/#comment-323183</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J Bowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Feb 2012 07:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=14158#comment-323183</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;Until more certainty is established, in the words of Bjorn Lomborg, let’s “COOL IT.” See here: http://www.lomborg.com/cool_it/&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

&quot;The IPCC&#039;s regular reports are the gold standard in climate change science. Each report — the latest was in 2007 — is the result of years of writing, reviewing and consensus-building among hundreds of scientists.

This process is robust and custom-made to weather criticism. Its consensus findings are incredibly difficult to ignore, and have done more than anything to spread the vital message that climate change is real and it is caused by human impact.&quot;
-- &lt;b&gt;Bjorn Lomborg&lt;/b&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/17/climate-change-ipcc&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;How to save the world in Copenhagen&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;i&gt;&quot;You really need to read Dr. Roy Spencer’s blog and his latest book, THE GREAT GLOBAL WARMING BLUNDER. &quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Maybe.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/roy-spencers-great-blunder-part-1/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Roy Spencer’s Great Blunder, Part 1&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2011/02/28/roy-spencers-great-blunder-part-2/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Roy Spencer’s Great Blunder, Part 2&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/roy-spencers-great-blunder-part-3/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Roy Spencer’s Great Blunder, Part 3&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;Just Put the Model Down, Roy&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Just Put the Model Down, Roy&lt;/a&gt;

Then again, maybe not ;)

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Gavin, Kevin, Michael, and all the others (The Hockey team) have admitted that they must use guesstimates in their climate models, which they tinker with until they get the results that they want. &quot;&lt;/i&gt;

&quot;All models are wrong, but some are useful.&quot; -- George Box.

All scientific theories and laws are models at their basest level. All science is probabilistic with uncertainties.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Until more certainty is established, in the words of Bjorn Lomborg, let’s “COOL IT.” See here: <a href="http://www.lomborg.com/cool_it/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.lomborg.com/cool_it/</a>&#8220;</i></p>
<p>&#8220;The IPCC&#8217;s regular reports are the gold standard in climate change science. Each report — the latest was in 2007 — is the result of years of writing, reviewing and consensus-building among hundreds of scientists.</p>
<p>This process is robust and custom-made to weather criticism. Its consensus findings are incredibly difficult to ignore, and have done more than anything to spread the vital message that climate change is real and it is caused by human impact.&#8221;<br />
&#8212; <b>Bjorn Lomborg</b>, <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/17/climate-change-ipcc" rel="nofollow">How to save the world in Copenhagen</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;You really need to read Dr. Roy Spencer’s blog and his latest book, THE GREAT GLOBAL WARMING BLUNDER. &#8220;</i></p>
<p>Maybe.</p>
<p><a href="http://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/roy-spencers-great-blunder-part-1/" rel="nofollow">Roy Spencer’s Great Blunder, Part 1</a><br />
<a href="http://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2011/02/28/roy-spencers-great-blunder-part-2/" rel="nofollow">Roy Spencer’s Great Blunder, Part 2</a><br />
<a href="http://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/roy-spencers-great-blunder-part-3/" rel="nofollow">Roy Spencer’s Great Blunder, Part 3</a><br />
<a href="Just Put the Model Down, Roy" rel="nofollow">Just Put the Model Down, Roy</a></p>
<p>Then again, maybe not 😉</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Gavin, Kevin, Michael, and all the others (The Hockey team) have admitted that they must use guesstimates in their climate models, which they tinker with until they get the results that they want. &#8220;</i></p>
<p>&#8220;All models are wrong, but some are useful.&#8221; &#8212; George Box.</p>
<p>All scientific theories and laws are models at their basest level. All science is probabilistic with uncertainties.</p>
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		By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/02/25/heartlandgate-memos-and-writing-styles/#comment-322628</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J. formerly Jimmy J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 04:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=14158#comment-322628</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[J. Bowers,
Nice to see a fan of realclimate.org joining in the conversation. 

Gavin, Kevin, Michael, and all the others (The Hockey team) have admitted that  they must use guesstimates in their climate models, which  they tinker with until they get  the results that  they want. Then they cry foul when people point put that  we should not  be making trillion dollar economic decisions based on these models that are really nothing more  than estimates.  

You really  need to read Dr. Roy Spencer&#039;s blog and his latest book, THE GREAT GLOBAL WARMING BLUNDER.  It&#039;s here: http://www.drroyspencer.com/
Dr. Spencer is is probably the best of the climate scientists that disagree with the Hockey Team. However, there  is also Steve McIntyre at Climate Audit  or Dr Richard Lindzen here: http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02148/RSL-HouseOfCommons_2148505a.pdf
Do some reading of other voices, it might  give you some perspective.

In spite of what the Hockey Team says, the debate is just getting started. They have dominated  the field (and the finances) up to this point, but  the uneconomic mitigation solutions they are calling  for have raised questions as to whether the predictions and science on which they are based is sound.  Until more certainty  is established, in the  words of Bjorn Lomborg, let&#039;s &quot;COOL IT.&quot; See here: http://www.lomborg.com/cool_it/  
The amount of warming observed and predicted calls for adaptation not mitigation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J. Bowers,<br />
Nice to see a fan of realclimate.org joining in the conversation. </p>
<p>Gavin, Kevin, Michael, and all the others (The Hockey team) have admitted that  they must use guesstimates in their climate models, which  they tinker with until they get  the results that  they want. Then they cry foul when people point put that  we should not  be making trillion dollar economic decisions based on these models that are really nothing more  than estimates.  </p>
<p>You really  need to read Dr. Roy Spencer&#8217;s blog and his latest book, THE GREAT GLOBAL WARMING BLUNDER.  It&#8217;s here: <a href="http://www.drroyspencer.com/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.drroyspencer.com/</a><br />
Dr. Spencer is is probably the best of the climate scientists that disagree with the Hockey Team. However, there  is also Steve McIntyre at Climate Audit  or Dr Richard Lindzen here: <a href="http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02148/RSL-HouseOfCommons_2148505a.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02148/RSL-HouseOfCommons_2148505a.pdf</a><br />
Do some reading of other voices, it might  give you some perspective.</p>
<p>In spite of what the Hockey Team says, the debate is just getting started. They have dominated  the field (and the finances) up to this point, but  the uneconomic mitigation solutions they are calling  for have raised questions as to whether the predictions and science on which they are based is sound.  Until more certainty  is established, in the  words of Bjorn Lomborg, let&#8217;s &#8220;COOL IT.&#8221; See here: <a href="http://www.lomborg.com/cool_it/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.lomborg.com/cool_it/</a><br />
The amount of warming observed and predicted calls for adaptation not mitigation.</p>
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		By: J Bowers		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/02/25/heartlandgate-memos-and-writing-styles/#comment-322365</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J Bowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=14158#comment-322365</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;If you have the facts on your side, you don’t have to lie and make shit up.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Very true: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2012/02/bickmore-on-the-wsj-response/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bickmore on the WSJ response.&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;If you have the facts on your side, you don’t have to lie and make shit up.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Very true: <a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2012/02/bickmore-on-the-wsj-response/" rel="nofollow">Bickmore on the WSJ response.</a></p>
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		By: Don		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/02/25/heartlandgate-memos-and-writing-styles/#comment-322331</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=14158#comment-322331</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think this sordid affair does say something about AGW. Or, rather, about the type of &quot;scientists&quot; who are pushing AGW. 

This fake memo is not out of line with the various efforts revealed by the Climategate e-mails. It isn&#039;t surprising, and it reinforces the &quot;ends justifies the means&quot; mindset of the AGW &quot;scientists&quot;. 

This implies the actual weakness of their factual AGW argument. 

If you have the facts on your side, you don&#039;t have to lie and make shit up.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this sordid affair does say something about AGW. Or, rather, about the type of &#8220;scientists&#8221; who are pushing AGW. </p>
<p>This fake memo is not out of line with the various efforts revealed by the Climategate e-mails. It isn&#8217;t surprising, and it reinforces the &#8220;ends justifies the means&#8221; mindset of the AGW &#8220;scientists&#8221;. </p>
<p>This implies the actual weakness of their factual AGW argument. </p>
<p>If you have the facts on your side, you don&#8217;t have to lie and make shit up.</p>
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		By: J Bowers		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/02/25/heartlandgate-memos-and-writing-styles/#comment-321907</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J Bowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Feb 2012 07:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=14158#comment-321907</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;According to the warmists, the AGW skeptics are against “settled science,” and thus against “science.”&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/12/unsettled-science/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Unsettled Science.&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>According to the warmists, the AGW skeptics are against “settled science,” and thus against “science.”&#8221;</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/12/unsettled-science/" rel="nofollow">Unsettled Science.</a></p>
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		By: Sgt. Mom		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/02/25/heartlandgate-memos-and-writing-styles/#comment-321784</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sgt. Mom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Feb 2012 23:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=14158#comment-321784</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dr. Gleick was - as Gringo pointed out - was trying to write as he thought an AGW skeptic would; not as an AGW skeptic actually does write. And that&#039;s the weak point for someone trying to do a &#039;moby&#039; on a libertarian/conservative site. They&#039;re basing their writing &#039;voice&#039; on the caricature that they have in their own minds. It&#039;s as if I were about to get in the mind-set to write some Victoriana by going to read some bodice-ripping romance novels, instead of some genuine period Victorian letters and memoirs.
It&#039;s like listening to accents ... you know when an actor is faking it badly.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Gleick was &#8211; as Gringo pointed out &#8211; was trying to write as he thought an AGW skeptic would; not as an AGW skeptic actually does write. And that&#8217;s the weak point for someone trying to do a &#8216;moby&#8217; on a libertarian/conservative site. They&#8217;re basing their writing &#8216;voice&#8217; on the caricature that they have in their own minds. It&#8217;s as if I were about to get in the mind-set to write some Victoriana by going to read some bodice-ripping romance novels, instead of some genuine period Victorian letters and memoirs.<br />
It&#8217;s like listening to accents &#8230; you know when an actor is faking it badly.</p>
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		By: Gringo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/02/25/heartlandgate-memos-and-writing-styles/#comment-321776</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gringo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Feb 2012 23:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=14158#comment-321776</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sgt. Mom:
&lt;blockquote&gt;I guess we’re lucky that Dr. Gleick wasn’t skilled that way, eh?&lt;/blockquote&gt;Yes, we are. 

One of the many indicators that the memo was fake was where it said that Heartland would push a curriculum “dissuading teachers from teaching science.”

This is how the warmists view the skeptics. According to the warmists, the AGW skeptics are against &quot;settled science,&quot; and thus against &quot;science.&quot; 

While this may be  a warmist view of  AGW skeptics, it is not how AGW skeptics view themselves. It is thus a good indication the memo was fake. 

While most of us are not adept at imitating writing styles as is an experienced writer like Sgt. Mom, I suspect that wingnuts at this blog can do a more credible job of constructing libs&#039; arguments than libs can do of constructing  wingnuts&#039; arguments. The reason at least at this blog is that a lot of us used to be libs, so we are familiar with lib ways of thinking.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sgt. Mom:</p>
<blockquote><p>I guess we’re lucky that Dr. Gleick wasn’t skilled that way, eh?</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, we are. </p>
<p>One of the many indicators that the memo was fake was where it said that Heartland would push a curriculum “dissuading teachers from teaching science.”</p>
<p>This is how the warmists view the skeptics. According to the warmists, the AGW skeptics are against &#8220;settled science,&#8221; and thus against &#8220;science.&#8221; </p>
<p>While this may be  a warmist view of  AGW skeptics, it is not how AGW skeptics view themselves. It is thus a good indication the memo was fake. </p>
<p>While most of us are not adept at imitating writing styles as is an experienced writer like Sgt. Mom, I suspect that wingnuts at this blog can do a more credible job of constructing libs&#8217; arguments than libs can do of constructing  wingnuts&#8217; arguments. The reason at least at this blog is that a lot of us used to be libs, so we are familiar with lib ways of thinking.</p>
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		By: J Bowers		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/02/25/heartlandgate-memos-and-writing-styles/#comment-321765</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J Bowers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Feb 2012 22:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=14158#comment-321765</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;Many AGW proponents and their political supporters in the press and elsewhere have alleged that the Climategate emails were hacked, although there’s no evidence of this and most on the right believe that dump was an inside job.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Well, I guess it really must take an insider to hack into the servers they already have access to using an exploit, and then use an exploit to hack another website, take it over, and upload the ZIP file there, all via servers in Russia and Turkey. Not really your run-of-the-mill whistleblower.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;But AGW goes well beyond that. It is: hypothesis + money (LOTS of money) + politics + power. &quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Actually, it&#039;s older than relativity and quantum mechanics and based on fully accepted physical laws and theories. Look up John Tyndall and Svante Arrhenius.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Many AGW proponents and their political supporters in the press and elsewhere have alleged that the Climategate emails were hacked, although there’s no evidence of this and most on the right believe that dump was an inside job.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Well, I guess it really must take an insider to hack into the servers they already have access to using an exploit, and then use an exploit to hack another website, take it over, and upload the ZIP file there, all via servers in Russia and Turkey. Not really your run-of-the-mill whistleblower.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;But AGW goes well beyond that. It is: hypothesis + money (LOTS of money) + politics + power. &#8220;</i></p>
<p>Actually, it&#8217;s older than relativity and quantum mechanics and based on fully accepted physical laws and theories. Look up John Tyndall and Svante Arrhenius.</p>
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		By: Gary		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/02/25/heartlandgate-memos-and-writing-styles/#comment-321752</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Feb 2012 22:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=14158#comment-321752</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[RE Sgt Mom:

Evidently your ability to mimic different styles far exceeds that of most people (including writers) and especially that of technical people, such as scientists, engineers and programmers. Having worked for a long time in a technical field, I can tell you that a large percentage of techies cannot write at all, a fair chunk are marginally competent, some are reasonably capable and very few are good or excellent. And I&#039;d bet that most of the latter group are good-excellent exclusively in their own distinctive voice.

So fortunately, I think the luck runs the opposite way. That is, Dr Gleick (or someone like him) would have to be very lucky to concoct a convincing memo in a style significantly different from his own.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE Sgt Mom:</p>
<p>Evidently your ability to mimic different styles far exceeds that of most people (including writers) and especially that of technical people, such as scientists, engineers and programmers. Having worked for a long time in a technical field, I can tell you that a large percentage of techies cannot write at all, a fair chunk are marginally competent, some are reasonably capable and very few are good or excellent. And I&#8217;d bet that most of the latter group are good-excellent exclusively in their own distinctive voice.</p>
<p>So fortunately, I think the luck runs the opposite way. That is, Dr Gleick (or someone like him) would have to be very lucky to concoct a convincing memo in a style significantly different from his own.</p>
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		By: Sgt. Mom		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/02/25/heartlandgate-memos-and-writing-styles/#comment-321664</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sgt. Mom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Feb 2012 15:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=14158#comment-321664</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Getting back to distinctive writhing styles and the apparent inability/disinclination of Dr. Gleick to &#039;assume&#039; another voice in generating a convincing memo ... I think his problem is the same one that turns up on comment threads on libertarian/conservative websites. The &#039;moby&#039; trying to sound like what they assume a real libertarian/conservative sounds like, and getting it so wrong that the regular commenters instantly pick them out. The fake memo instantly &#039;sounded&#039; so wrong to people like Megan McArdle. I think ordinary people are pretty good and picking out this kind of fakery.

On the other hand, I know that a writing style can be mimicked; I am very good at doing it for my own books. I can read up on certain 19th century authors and writers, and then &#039;do&#039; page after page in their style. For one of my books, I did a series of letters and the diary of a character leading a wagon train so convincingly that there are a lot of readers who were sure that I had found a genuine cache of letters and the diary someplace!

I guess we&#039;re lucky that Dr. Gleick wasn&#039;t skilled that way, eh?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting back to distinctive writhing styles and the apparent inability/disinclination of Dr. Gleick to &#8216;assume&#8217; another voice in generating a convincing memo &#8230; I think his problem is the same one that turns up on comment threads on libertarian/conservative websites. The &#8216;moby&#8217; trying to sound like what they assume a real libertarian/conservative sounds like, and getting it so wrong that the regular commenters instantly pick them out. The fake memo instantly &#8216;sounded&#8217; so wrong to people like Megan McArdle. I think ordinary people are pretty good and picking out this kind of fakery.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I know that a writing style can be mimicked; I am very good at doing it for my own books. I can read up on certain 19th century authors and writers, and then &#8216;do&#8217; page after page in their style. For one of my books, I did a series of letters and the diary of a character leading a wagon train so convincingly that there are a lot of readers who were sure that I had found a genuine cache of letters and the diary someplace!</p>
<p>I guess we&#8217;re lucky that Dr. Gleick wasn&#8217;t skilled that way, eh?</p>
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