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	<title>
	Comments on: Judith Clark: changer?	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://thenewneo.com/2012/01/14/judith-clark-changer/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/01/14/judith-clark-changer/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 18:26:15 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/01/14/judith-clark-changer/#comment-307535</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 18:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=12719#comment-307535</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ymarsakar: yes, a mole for the British.  At least that&#039;s my recollection.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ymarsakar: yes, a mole for the British.  At least that&#8217;s my recollection.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/01/14/judith-clark-changer/#comment-307522</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=12719#comment-307522</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Not to say it is impossible. If he can keep his cover, anything is possible. If.

The IRA vs Ulster vs British SAS thing tends to get complicated, though. Whenever you add a new faction to the pot, uncertainties increase, cloak and dagger games increase in complexity and irreducible complexity standards, and sometimes the spymasters don&#039;t even know which turn one of their turned spies is at.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to say it is impossible. If he can keep his cover, anything is possible. If.</p>
<p>The IRA vs Ulster vs British SAS thing tends to get complicated, though. Whenever you add a new faction to the pot, uncertainties increase, cloak and dagger games increase in complexity and irreducible complexity standards, and sometimes the spymasters don&#8217;t even know which turn one of their turned spies is at.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/01/14/judith-clark-changer/#comment-307518</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=12719#comment-307518</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I assume that was a mole in the IRA that was set by British SAS or sympathizers, rather than by the IRA&#039;s own enemies.

The reason is that Ireland&#039;s clan connections and mafia like organizations, would make it mighty hard for someone to cross lines like that, survive, complete a loyalty mission, and survive again from both sides.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assume that was a mole in the IRA that was set by British SAS or sympathizers, rather than by the IRA&#8217;s own enemies.</p>
<p>The reason is that Ireland&#8217;s clan connections and mafia like organizations, would make it mighty hard for someone to cross lines like that, survive, complete a loyalty mission, and survive again from both sides.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/01/14/judith-clark-changer/#comment-307240</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=12719#comment-307240</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ymar: actually, I was thinking of a guy who worked as a mole in the IRA, and who had to prove his bona fides by killing somebody who was a designated enemy of the IRA.  Something like that.  I think he wrote a memoir, but I can&#039;t remember his name or where I read it or any of the details.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ymar: actually, I was thinking of a guy who worked as a mole in the IRA, and who had to prove his bona fides by killing somebody who was a designated enemy of the IRA.  Something like that.  I think he wrote a memoir, but I can&#8217;t remember his name or where I read it or any of the details.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/01/14/judith-clark-changer/#comment-307225</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=12719#comment-307225</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neo, I think you might be thinking of double spies like the one that gave Hitler the wrong info on Normandy, and only gained that status by giving him previously accurate information.

That only works if the Allies that he betrayed or sold out, don&#039;t know who he is and what he is doing.  You see, the fundamental problem with double spies is that if their cover gets blown, depending on how it is blown, both sides will try to kill him. 

It has happened. If for example, the regular military knows who this guy is and that he leaked the info, they would assassinate him, arrest him, or bomb him out. If the Nazis figured he was working as a spy for Britain, they would do the same thing. Only the leaders of either side would be allowed access to who he &quot;really is&quot;, so to speak. So these people tend to only be able to work in the shadows. If too many people know about their potential connections, they can&#039;t do their work, probably because people are too suspicious. The British leader couldn&#039;t order his people to cooperate with him, lest they give out his identity, and the British leader isn&#039;t going to tell them that he&#039;s really a double spy. 

Anyways, for this situation, the threat level is low to non-existent. Too many people know too much. And they&#039;ll take action, if they don&#039;t like what she does, either way.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo, I think you might be thinking of double spies like the one that gave Hitler the wrong info on Normandy, and only gained that status by giving him previously accurate information.</p>
<p>That only works if the Allies that he betrayed or sold out, don&#8217;t know who he is and what he is doing.  You see, the fundamental problem with double spies is that if their cover gets blown, depending on how it is blown, both sides will try to kill him. </p>
<p>It has happened. If for example, the regular military knows who this guy is and that he leaked the info, they would assassinate him, arrest him, or bomb him out. If the Nazis figured he was working as a spy for Britain, they would do the same thing. Only the leaders of either side would be allowed access to who he &#8220;really is&#8221;, so to speak. So these people tend to only be able to work in the shadows. If too many people know about their potential connections, they can&#8217;t do their work, probably because people are too suspicious. The British leader couldn&#8217;t order his people to cooperate with him, lest they give out his identity, and the British leader isn&#8217;t going to tell them that he&#8217;s really a double spy. </p>
<p>Anyways, for this situation, the threat level is low to non-existent. Too many people know too much. And they&#8217;ll take action, if they don&#8217;t like what she does, either way.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/01/14/judith-clark-changer/#comment-307214</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=12719#comment-307214</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Her value was not originally that of a mole, thus a counter-espionage overview would rate her threat level as low on that scale. However, part of what these &quot;loyalty tests&quot; really are is forcing people to burn their bridges. The Left usually give their members loyalty tests as well, and those usually involve something like crime, anti-social behavior, or other things that distance them or completely alienate their circle of social options. This, like a cult, cuts off social ties and supports, allowing the cult to fill in the gap and say &quot;if you leave Jim Jones&#039; camp of safety, the CIA will kill you and x your family&quot;. One of the reasons why the Left didn&#039;t like this woman having a child in a normal family sense, is because it divides her loyalties. Which it proved to be true, more or less.

So my loyalty test would explicitly conjoin success with also forcing her to make herself an enemy of the Left, and a target as well. The only way they could turn or re-turn her, would be kidnap, blackmail, or otherwise control her daughter. That, however, would be easily counter-checked with sufficient bodyguards and Blackwater types.

If she refuses to do so, given the risk of the Left targeting her or her daughter, then you immediately understand what her level of &quot;motivation&quot; is. It&#039;s not enough. If she commits to the task, she can still fail or the Left can still succeed later, but now it&#039;s an even chance battle.

By the very fact that the Left would have to target her or her children, would push her even more into an anti-Leftist camp, making her more reliant on alliances and connections with anti-Leftist alliances. The chances of her cooperation in the future, barring any kidnapping incidents, will be assured.

Btw, her very actions of calming down people and preventing them from using violence, is anti-Leftist itself. The Left needs revolution, race hatred, and divisions, and whatever she does, it will be against them. And the Left treats turncoats especially ruthlessly. Juan Williams and various others, know that quite well. And Juan William wasn&#039;t even part of the hard Left, like Ayers.

This is for making her a member or enemy of the Left. If you just want to see her motivational levels for reform, that would accomplish the same goal. The thing about counter turning and triple, or quadruple, spies is their inherent value. She has little to no inherent value as a spy or 4X agent. But she does have much value as an example of Leftist history and current modus operandi, or as an example of what the Left does to turncoats. That will have to suffice for people who can&#039;t read character and belief just by meeting with her. That will have to suffice for them and their doubts.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Her value was not originally that of a mole, thus a counter-espionage overview would rate her threat level as low on that scale. However, part of what these &#8220;loyalty tests&#8221; really are is forcing people to burn their bridges. The Left usually give their members loyalty tests as well, and those usually involve something like crime, anti-social behavior, or other things that distance them or completely alienate their circle of social options. This, like a cult, cuts off social ties and supports, allowing the cult to fill in the gap and say &#8220;if you leave Jim Jones&#8217; camp of safety, the CIA will kill you and x your family&#8221;. One of the reasons why the Left didn&#8217;t like this woman having a child in a normal family sense, is because it divides her loyalties. Which it proved to be true, more or less.</p>
<p>So my loyalty test would explicitly conjoin success with also forcing her to make herself an enemy of the Left, and a target as well. The only way they could turn or re-turn her, would be kidnap, blackmail, or otherwise control her daughter. That, however, would be easily counter-checked with sufficient bodyguards and Blackwater types.</p>
<p>If she refuses to do so, given the risk of the Left targeting her or her daughter, then you immediately understand what her level of &#8220;motivation&#8221; is. It&#8217;s not enough. If she commits to the task, she can still fail or the Left can still succeed later, but now it&#8217;s an even chance battle.</p>
<p>By the very fact that the Left would have to target her or her children, would push her even more into an anti-Leftist camp, making her more reliant on alliances and connections with anti-Leftist alliances. The chances of her cooperation in the future, barring any kidnapping incidents, will be assured.</p>
<p>Btw, her very actions of calming down people and preventing them from using violence, is anti-Leftist itself. The Left needs revolution, race hatred, and divisions, and whatever she does, it will be against them. And the Left treats turncoats especially ruthlessly. Juan Williams and various others, know that quite well. And Juan William wasn&#8217;t even part of the hard Left, like Ayers.</p>
<p>This is for making her a member or enemy of the Left. If you just want to see her motivational levels for reform, that would accomplish the same goal. The thing about counter turning and triple, or quadruple, spies is their inherent value. She has little to no inherent value as a spy or 4X agent. But she does have much value as an example of Leftist history and current modus operandi, or as an example of what the Left does to turncoats. That will have to suffice for people who can&#8217;t read character and belief just by meeting with her. That will have to suffice for them and their doubts.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Victor Krueger		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/01/14/judith-clark-changer/#comment-306607</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Victor Krueger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 08:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=12719#comment-306607</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To those who think ill of Governor Bush for not commuting Ms. Tucker&#039;s sentence:  He could NOT do that.

The Governor of the State of Texas does NOT have that authority.  That authority is held by the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles.  The most that the Governor can do is to delay a scheduled execution, once, for 30 days.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To those who think ill of Governor Bush for not commuting Ms. Tucker&#8217;s sentence:  He could NOT do that.</p>
<p>The Governor of the State of Texas does NOT have that authority.  That authority is held by the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles.  The most that the Governor can do is to delay a scheduled execution, once, for 30 days.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/01/14/judith-clark-changer/#comment-306338</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jan 2012 20:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=12719#comment-306338</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ymar: ah, but putting aside your specific example (offing Ayers), she could cooperate with whatever task might be set her in order to deceive the authorities into a false belief that she&#039;s reformed, if she&#039;s really a revolutionary.  Don&#039;t moles have to do that sort of thing all the time?
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ymar: ah, but putting aside your specific example (offing Ayers), she could cooperate with whatever task might be set her in order to deceive the authorities into a false belief that she&#8217;s reformed, if she&#8217;s really a revolutionary.  Don&#8217;t moles have to do that sort of thing all the time?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/01/14/judith-clark-changer/#comment-306336</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jan 2012 20:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=12719#comment-306336</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s pretty simple. I would only require a concrete form of her loyalty or change. Thus I would set her a mission to prove her loyalty. Preferably to kill someone like Ayers, but there are other less extreme options. If she succeeds at the mission, she passes. If she does not, then she remains a fugitive.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s pretty simple. I would only require a concrete form of her loyalty or change. Thus I would set her a mission to prove her loyalty. Preferably to kill someone like Ayers, but there are other less extreme options. If she succeeds at the mission, she passes. If she does not, then she remains a fugitive.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sergey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2012/01/14/judith-clark-changer/#comment-306314</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sergey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jan 2012 19:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=12719#comment-306314</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Every terrorist deserve hanging, repentant or not. Repentance only allows them make some pease with themselves. Good for them, if so, but it does not abolish a need to hang them anyway.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every terrorist deserve hanging, repentant or not. Repentance only allows them make some pease with themselves. Good for them, if so, but it does not abolish a need to hang them anyway.</p>
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