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	Comments on: Growing political intransigence	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/11/21/growing-political-intransigence/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: JJ		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/11/21/growing-political-intransigence/#comment-284881</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=11396#comment-284881</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sorry about all the typos in the last comment - I&#039;m working from a mini pad and was too quick to enter.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about all the typos in the last comment &#8211; I&#8217;m working from a mini pad and was too quick to enter.</p>
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		<title>
		By: JJ		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/11/21/growing-political-intransigence/#comment-284880</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=11396#comment-284880</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Don Carlos,
The rise of our trade deficits corresponds almost perfectly with our the increase in our importation of oil, lumber, minerals, and, in the last ten years,  years, consumer goods from China  Your view seems to be that nothing can be done - all is lost. If thta&#039;s true, then we should all just give up and maximize our own comforts while things collapse all around us.

I&#039;m old enough to remember how bleak
 things looked for the Allies in 1942. There was no certainty whatsoever that we would prevail.  It took a willingness to do the things that needed to be done to win.  Although I was only eight when WWII began, I was old enough to have noticed the debilitating effects of the Depression. There was a sense of hopelessness. Most people had accepted that things were never going to improve much. The war effort united the population and spurred them to do the things necessary to win. We recycled everything, went without milk, meat, gasoline, tires, and much else. People complained but we had leadership that put politics aside in favor of the survival of the country.  

I recognize, perticularly from the way our President and Senators are be having, that our leaders don&#039;t recognize the problem. That can and will change. Anyway, I believe there is a course out of our present situation and intend to work toward that goal in whatever way I can.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don Carlos,<br />
The rise of our trade deficits corresponds almost perfectly with our the increase in our importation of oil, lumber, minerals, and, in the last ten years,  years, consumer goods from China  Your view seems to be that nothing can be done &#8211; all is lost. If thta&#8217;s true, then we should all just give up and maximize our own comforts while things collapse all around us.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m old enough to remember how bleak<br />
 things looked for the Allies in 1942. There was no certainty whatsoever that we would prevail.  It took a willingness to do the things that needed to be done to win.  Although I was only eight when WWII began, I was old enough to have noticed the debilitating effects of the Depression. There was a sense of hopelessness. Most people had accepted that things were never going to improve much. The war effort united the population and spurred them to do the things necessary to win. We recycled everything, went without milk, meat, gasoline, tires, and much else. People complained but we had leadership that put politics aside in favor of the survival of the country.  </p>
<p>I recognize, perticularly from the way our President and Senators are be having, that our leaders don&#8217;t recognize the problem. That can and will change. Anyway, I believe there is a course out of our present situation and intend to work toward that goal in whatever way I can.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Don Carlos		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/11/21/growing-political-intransigence/#comment-284520</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don Carlos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2011 00:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=11396#comment-284520</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There was indeed a &#039;global&#039; economy post-WWII. There always has been such. The Krauts, Frogs, and Brits didn&#039;t just recover by pulling themselves up by their war-rotted bootstraps. The US had trade surpluses then, but we&#039;ve had trade deficits for the past 25 or so years. That&#039;s the diff.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was indeed a &#8216;global&#8217; economy post-WWII. There always has been such. The Krauts, Frogs, and Brits didn&#8217;t just recover by pulling themselves up by their war-rotted bootstraps. The US had trade surpluses then, but we&#8217;ve had trade deficits for the past 25 or so years. That&#8217;s the diff.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/11/21/growing-political-intransigence/#comment-284402</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J. formerly Jimmy J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=11396#comment-284402</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Don  Carlos said, &quot;I think there is a fundamental difference between post-WWII and now, which we overlook at some peril.
The US was the major industrial power then. The world needed our products.
Today, we are a service economy, wiping each other’s noses, waiting on each other’s tables.&quot;

You forget that there was no &quot;global&quot; economy then. There were few customers for our products save our own  middle class. We made and sold our products to ourseles for the most part because the rest of the world was broke. We helped them change that, but failled to see the change and how it would affect us. Even worse, since the eighties, the  problem has been the rise of the  anti-industrial environmental  movement in this country. We have quit  making  and producing things (except agricultural products, airplanes, and heavy industrial  equipment) because the enviros have made it expensive or against the law. Even today they are harrassing  the  farmers by cutting off irrigation water, and forcing them to cultivate less land to &quot;protect wet lands and watersheds.&quot; If the enviros have their way we will  become a nation totally  dependent on others. That would be a tragedy because we are blessed with all the  natural resources we need, very productive farm land, plenty of people who are willing  to  work, and the capital markets that  can make it  happen.  Instead we are harnessed, tied down like Gulliver  by  the Lilliputians of the environmental movement.  

The value added goods come from farm products, oil and gas, mining output, lumbering, fishing, electrical generating plants, the development of real estate, and manufacturing of both high  and low  tech goods. Except for heavy equipment, and airplanes we have forced our manufacturing offshore through regulation, unionization, and high taxes.  We could change back quite  easily.   Rules and regulations written on pieces of paper are  holding us back. Those can  be changed.  Let&#039;s do it!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don  Carlos said, &#8220;I think there is a fundamental difference between post-WWII and now, which we overlook at some peril.<br />
The US was the major industrial power then. The world needed our products.<br />
Today, we are a service economy, wiping each other’s noses, waiting on each other’s tables.&#8221;</p>
<p>You forget that there was no &#8220;global&#8221; economy then. There were few customers for our products save our own  middle class. We made and sold our products to ourseles for the most part because the rest of the world was broke. We helped them change that, but failled to see the change and how it would affect us. Even worse, since the eighties, the  problem has been the rise of the  anti-industrial environmental  movement in this country. We have quit  making  and producing things (except agricultural products, airplanes, and heavy industrial  equipment) because the enviros have made it expensive or against the law. Even today they are harrassing  the  farmers by cutting off irrigation water, and forcing them to cultivate less land to &#8220;protect wet lands and watersheds.&#8221; If the enviros have their way we will  become a nation totally  dependent on others. That would be a tragedy because we are blessed with all the  natural resources we need, very productive farm land, plenty of people who are willing  to  work, and the capital markets that  can make it  happen.  Instead we are harnessed, tied down like Gulliver  by  the Lilliputians of the environmental movement.  </p>
<p>The value added goods come from farm products, oil and gas, mining output, lumbering, fishing, electrical generating plants, the development of real estate, and manufacturing of both high  and low  tech goods. Except for heavy equipment, and airplanes we have forced our manufacturing offshore through regulation, unionization, and high taxes.  We could change back quite  easily.   Rules and regulations written on pieces of paper are  holding us back. Those can  be changed.  Let&#8217;s do it!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Randy		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/11/21/growing-political-intransigence/#comment-284382</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Randy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 17:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=11396#comment-284382</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Stan said:

&quot;And conservatives have noticed.&quot;

Yep.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stan said:</p>
<p>&#8220;And conservatives have noticed.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yep.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Randy		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/11/21/growing-political-intransigence/#comment-284376</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Randy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 17:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=11396#comment-284376</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;I see a similar thing operating among Republicans; just switch the parties &quot;

Intransigence from the conservative side originates, I believe, from the fact that it has no structural conservative policy victories under its belt. None. This is in spite the fact conservatives have a pretty good record at the polls.

The Democrats, on the other hand, are so used to the GOP caving that they have come to believe that is what compromise looks like. 

It really is time for a fight. Or we can compromise and fight when things bleaker.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I see a similar thing operating among Republicans; just switch the parties &#8221;</p>
<p>Intransigence from the conservative side originates, I believe, from the fact that it has no structural conservative policy victories under its belt. None. This is in spite the fact conservatives have a pretty good record at the polls.</p>
<p>The Democrats, on the other hand, are so used to the GOP caving that they have come to believe that is what compromise looks like. </p>
<p>It really is time for a fight. Or we can compromise and fight when things bleaker.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Don Carlos		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/11/21/growing-political-intransigence/#comment-284360</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don Carlos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 16:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=11396#comment-284360</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[J.J.-
I think there is a fundamental difference between post-WWII and now, which we overlook at some peril.
The US was the major industrial power then. The world needed our products.
Today, we are a service economy, wiping each other&#039;s noses, waiting on each other&#039;s tables.
Not something we can grow ourselves out of. We are not adding value.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J.J.-<br />
I think there is a fundamental difference between post-WWII and now, which we overlook at some peril.<br />
The US was the major industrial power then. The world needed our products.<br />
Today, we are a service economy, wiping each other&#8217;s noses, waiting on each other&#8217;s tables.<br />
Not something we can grow ourselves out of. We are not adding value.</p>
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		<title>
		By: armchair pessimist		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/11/21/growing-political-intransigence/#comment-284357</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[armchair pessimist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 16:23:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=11396#comment-284357</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I once had a civil conversation with a red hot liberal in which we agreed that we each desired to see the other put 6 feet under.  Lenin&#039;s famous question:  Who whom?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I once had a civil conversation with a red hot liberal in which we agreed that we each desired to see the other put 6 feet under.  Lenin&#8217;s famous question:  Who whom?</p>
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		<title>
		By: stan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/11/21/growing-political-intransigence/#comment-284289</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=11396#comment-284289</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Charles Krauthammer -- the difference between Democrats and Republicans is that Republicans think Democrats are wrong and Democrats think Republicans are evil.

No one has any interest in compromising with evil or even trying to understand it.  This leads to &quot;bitter clingers&quot; and &quot;what&#039;s the matter with Kansas&quot;.  Liberals genuinely believe that conservatives are mean-spirited, hate-filled, anti-science, racist, sexist homophobes bent on exploiting workers and spoiling the environment.

And conservatives have noticed.  Some haven&#039;t liked it very much and have begun to return fire. Does anyone really believe there is going to be an amicable relationship in government when one side despises the other so much?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles Krauthammer &#8212; the difference between Democrats and Republicans is that Republicans think Democrats are wrong and Democrats think Republicans are evil.</p>
<p>No one has any interest in compromising with evil or even trying to understand it.  This leads to &#8220;bitter clingers&#8221; and &#8220;what&#8217;s the matter with Kansas&#8221;.  Liberals genuinely believe that conservatives are mean-spirited, hate-filled, anti-science, racist, sexist homophobes bent on exploiting workers and spoiling the environment.</p>
<p>And conservatives have noticed.  Some haven&#8217;t liked it very much and have begun to return fire. Does anyone really believe there is going to be an amicable relationship in government when one side despises the other so much?</p>
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		<title>
		By: FrankB		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/11/21/growing-political-intransigence/#comment-284285</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FrankB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=11396#comment-284285</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think a lot of the discussion about the polarity of the current political parties misses a larger trend. Typically in American politics one party is dominate and is an instrument of the current cultural zeitgeist.

What I see happening now is that both parties are effectively in a draw. Which produces unnaturally divisive, and highly frictional conflicts over political matters because there exists no &quot;natural&quot; mandate on any particular position.

For some reason the Dems believe that they ought to possess this dominate position. I do wonder if it has anything to do with the extreme careerism of politicians in the current era. (After all 40-50 years in public life is bound to lead to some level of stagnation). Because I don&#039;t believe the Dems ever adjusted to the idea that they weren&#039;t the majority party after the 1980, 1994, 2010 elections. And Republican&#039;s have never really gained the confidence to act like the majority party. (Here I think is the source of a lot of the problems the GOP faces. The Rinoism situation, the rarity of strong conservative voices in the party.)

So when I read these articles on how &quot;mean&quot; the parties are I think the authors aren&#039;t really looking the big picture. Not to mention that narrative always seems to start favoring one side of the political equation. Never mind the fact that that side is also the same side with the most extreme political rhetoric.

Lets just hope for all our sakes that this next election proves more decisive and starts transitioning from this political draw back into a single party dominance.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a lot of the discussion about the polarity of the current political parties misses a larger trend. Typically in American politics one party is dominate and is an instrument of the current cultural zeitgeist.</p>
<p>What I see happening now is that both parties are effectively in a draw. Which produces unnaturally divisive, and highly frictional conflicts over political matters because there exists no &#8220;natural&#8221; mandate on any particular position.</p>
<p>For some reason the Dems believe that they ought to possess this dominate position. I do wonder if it has anything to do with the extreme careerism of politicians in the current era. (After all 40-50 years in public life is bound to lead to some level of stagnation). Because I don&#8217;t believe the Dems ever adjusted to the idea that they weren&#8217;t the majority party after the 1980, 1994, 2010 elections. And Republican&#8217;s have never really gained the confidence to act like the majority party. (Here I think is the source of a lot of the problems the GOP faces. The Rinoism situation, the rarity of strong conservative voices in the party.)</p>
<p>So when I read these articles on how &#8220;mean&#8221; the parties are I think the authors aren&#8217;t really looking the big picture. Not to mention that narrative always seems to start favoring one side of the political equation. Never mind the fact that that side is also the same side with the most extreme political rhetoric.</p>
<p>Lets just hope for all our sakes that this next election proves more decisive and starts transitioning from this political draw back into a single party dominance.</p>
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