Comments on: Short rumination on sexual harassment laws

By: neo-neocon

neo-neocon — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:32:53 +0000

IGotBupkis: Actually, a lot of men who are violent abusers threaten to track down and kill the woman and/or children if she leaves. And—I don’t have time to find the stats right now—I think the statistics bear this out, finding that a woman is most at risk of being killed after she leaves, especially within the first few months.

Women in those situations feel they have no other way out. My personal opinion is that they should still risk it and leave, and hope to change identities or go far away or stay in a shelter for a while and get help to do those things, rather than to kill the husband. But it often isn’t as simple as “why doesn’t she just leave, and she’ll be okay.”

By: IGotBupkis, Unicorn Fart Entrepreneur

IGotBupkis, Unicorn Fart Entrepreneur — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:21:07 +0000

Battered women who kill to be main beneficiaries …

Geez, what a load of tripe.

The difference would be that being provoked to anger isn’t something one has as much control over as being subject to a steady reign of violence.

Women who hang around too long and then kill aren’t in the same class as a man who is poked and prodded until they lose their cool and lash out. The woman always has the option to leave. That she fails to act on it endlessly should not provide an excuse for murder.

By: IGotBupkis, Unicorn Fart Entrepreneur

IGotBupkis, Unicorn Fart Entrepreneur — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:13:19 +0000

Jokes and innuendo are not technically actionable.

~~Horseshit~~... sorry: "Equine Excreta". Many companies will fire you at the drop of a hat if a woman makes an allegation, after making no effort whatsoever to verify the claims. Just depends on how much they appreciate you/like you/want you. I've seen where some guys who can make blatantly racist or sexist statements and no one says a word, while others have gotten fired for making far lesser comments (cf. the comment alluded to in the above entry) in passing.

By: IGotBupkis, Unicorn Fart Entrepreneur

IGotBupkis, Unicorn Fart Entrepreneur — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:12:32 +0000

Jokes and innuendo are not technically actionable.

By: IGotBupkis, Unicorn Fart Entrepreneur

IGotBupkis, Unicorn Fart Entrepreneur — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:01:15 +0000

You can lose a job these days for things having nothing whatsoever to do with sexual harassment. All a woman has to do these days is cklaim you said something she was offended by of a sexual nature (commenting, for example, on the attractiveness of a model or actress, and I’m not speaking of anything crude mind you — “she’s pretty but I’m not really interested in blondes, myself”) can get you fired in many venues.

The current system is just flat-out wrong.

By: Dan

Dan — Sun, 06 Nov 2011 13:48:01 +0000

I was the target of an extortion attempt by an ex-girlfriend who had been fired from her job for cause and decided to take revenge by alleging sexual harassment since I had a much higher ranking at our mutual employer. I was not, as it happened, in a position of authority over her and the relationship had started and ended at her whim. I chose to hire counsel and oppose the blackmail. I never heard back from her attorney. This may or may not apply to Cain’s situation, but it is always worth considering the option of fighting back rather than taking the easy way out and regretting it later.

By: holmes

holmes — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 14:54:54 +0000

By the way, more victims of sexual harassment claims in the workplace need to sue for defamation. If you can prove it to be false, definitely take action, even if you know you can get no money from the person (maybe attorney’s fees is enough). That should help strike the proper balance. And a legal action cannot be used as evidence of “retaliation” for the initial claim.

By: HEP-T

HEP-T — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 14:52:30 +0000

I recall my time working in a factory during the late 90’s. The plant had a list of words and names that CANNOT BE SPOKEN words and names like, Pussy, pussy cat, tail etc, Cock in all it’s attachments ie: cock fight etc. Beaver, Raccoon or coon, monkey, ape, the N word along with cow (something about Breasts) There was a set of two letters also banned “GD” short for a curse using Gods name.
It was a long list and had it been followed not much conversation would have been had.
Sexual harrassment was the main charge there mostly leadmen and bosses.
Things like this get out of hand and actually become the problem rather than a fix.

By: holmes

holmes — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 14:51:09 +0000

The first SC case to outline sexual harassment was Meritor Savings Bank. It was a terrible case. Yes, the man was a pig, but the women voluntarily went along with the relationship- for quite a long time. She then turned around and said she was coerced because of the very nature of the supervisor-employee relationship, and sexual harassment was born of Title VII.

By: holmes

holmes — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 14:49:49 +0000

Jokes and innuendo are not technically actionable. It must be “severe and pervasive” as well as “‘unwelcome” (see the SNL skit with Tom Brady sexual harrassment training: be attractive.). But…while the law carves out a somewhat narrower area of speech, corporations then need to protect against a wider area of speech and action so that they show that they have taken steps to prevent the speech and action from becoming severe and pervasive. In Jones v. Clinton, the SC ruled that dropping your pants in front of an employee and making a, um, solicitation, one time does not constitute “severe and pervasive.” But if a company allowed that to go unpunished, it would be shown to have contributed to that hostile work environment and incur liability the next time it happens. Part of the problem is the hypersensitivity of corporations (likely a rational reaction) to law suits.

So, when Cain says “I never sexually harassed anyone”, even if he did make inappropriate statements or gestures (I still doubt this), he is being truthful. It’s a term of legal art.

But again, this was more than a settlement for a sexual harassment claim. The complainant left employment after reaching an agreement on her claim. That is unusual and perhaps speaks of other problems.