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	Comments on: Krauthammer on the debt debate	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/08/12/krauthammer-on-the-debt-debate/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Don Carlos		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/08/12/krauthammer-on-the-debt-debate/#comment-260025</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don Carlos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2011 15:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8764#comment-260025</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Curtis 8/12 @ 8:38pm:
Let&#039;s consider what taking a political risk is.
The risk is a) not succeeding, and b) losing  political power or employment. No guillotine awaits.

Now, liken that to a risky surgical procedure: who bears the risk? Not the surgeon.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curtis 8/12 @ 8:38pm:<br />
Let&#8217;s consider what taking a political risk is.<br />
The risk is a) not succeeding, and b) losing  political power or employment. No guillotine awaits.</p>
<p>Now, liken that to a risky surgical procedure: who bears the risk? Not the surgeon.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Parker		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/08/12/krauthammer-on-the-debt-debate/#comment-259983</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Parker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2011 02:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8764#comment-259983</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Over the last year the USA has given unaccounted for billions to &#039;aid&#039; Greece.  Somewhere around 45 cents of each dollar of &#039;aid&#039; to Greece was borrowed money. In the last 2.5 years the debt burden has grown by 4 trillion and the &#039;great comprise&#039; just added another 2.4 trillion within the next 18 months. The most &#039;conservative&#039; plan offered up, but not enacted, would add another 10+ trillion in debt by 2020. Somewhere between 75 to 150 trillion (no one knows for sure) in unfunded liabilities and interest payments will come due in less than 25 years.

Krauthammer and others can pontificate till the cows come home, but nothing can avert this train wreck except drastic measures. The GOP house flinched.  They missed the opportunity to put this mess in BHO&#039;s lap and the laps of the senate dems.  Now, they too are tainted.

BTW, I&#039;m all for repealing the 17th along with the 16th, the 23rd, and the 26th. And I fervently support requiring everything DC does to pass the test of the 9th &#038; 10th. And yes, that is but a dream.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over the last year the USA has given unaccounted for billions to &#8216;aid&#8217; Greece.  Somewhere around 45 cents of each dollar of &#8216;aid&#8217; to Greece was borrowed money. In the last 2.5 years the debt burden has grown by 4 trillion and the &#8216;great comprise&#8217; just added another 2.4 trillion within the next 18 months. The most &#8216;conservative&#8217; plan offered up, but not enacted, would add another 10+ trillion in debt by 2020. Somewhere between 75 to 150 trillion (no one knows for sure) in unfunded liabilities and interest payments will come due in less than 25 years.</p>
<p>Krauthammer and others can pontificate till the cows come home, but nothing can avert this train wreck except drastic measures. The GOP house flinched.  They missed the opportunity to put this mess in BHO&#8217;s lap and the laps of the senate dems.  Now, they too are tainted.</p>
<p>BTW, I&#8217;m all for repealing the 17th along with the 16th, the 23rd, and the 26th. And I fervently support requiring everything DC does to pass the test of the 9th &amp; 10th. And yes, that is but a dream.</p>
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		By: texexec		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/08/12/krauthammer-on-the-debt-debate/#comment-259978</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[texexec]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2011 02:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8764#comment-259978</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[rickl said:

&quot;texexec:
I agree with most of what you said at 3:40 pm, except that the Senate is not functioning as the Founders intended, ever since the ratification of the 17th Amendment. A Senate that still represented the states’ interests would be a powerful check on the runaway growth of the federal government. That’s what the Founders had in mind.&quot;

You make a good point, rickl.  The pre-17th amendment way of putting people into the senate WAS a better way than now.

The Senate does temper what the House does now but it&#039;s a washed out version of how things used to work.

Republicans currently have large majorities in lots of states&#039; legislatures.  Wouldn&#039;t if be great if they could select our senators?

Of course, if ya get right down to it, our founders didn&#039;t intend that anyone &quot;of age&quot; who breathes should be able to vote either.

Heck...in South Texas and Chicago, some people get to vote who DON&#039;T still breathe.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rickl said:</p>
<p>&#8220;texexec:<br />
I agree with most of what you said at 3:40 pm, except that the Senate is not functioning as the Founders intended, ever since the ratification of the 17th Amendment. A Senate that still represented the states’ interests would be a powerful check on the runaway growth of the federal government. That’s what the Founders had in mind.&#8221;</p>
<p>You make a good point, rickl.  The pre-17th amendment way of putting people into the senate WAS a better way than now.</p>
<p>The Senate does temper what the House does now but it&#8217;s a washed out version of how things used to work.</p>
<p>Republicans currently have large majorities in lots of states&#8217; legislatures.  Wouldn&#8217;t if be great if they could select our senators?</p>
<p>Of course, if ya get right down to it, our founders didn&#8217;t intend that anyone &#8220;of age&#8221; who breathes should be able to vote either.</p>
<p>Heck&#8230;in South Texas and Chicago, some people get to vote who DON&#8217;T still breathe.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Curtis		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/08/12/krauthammer-on-the-debt-debate/#comment-259969</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Curtis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2011 00:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8764#comment-259969</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks Don Carlos. 

On retrospection, I see what is animating my thoughts and it is Krauthammer&#039;s rebuke to the very people who risked something. And then incorporating into his argument someone like Scott Walker whose demeanor literally shouts friendliness and bi-partisanship but his actions were 100% heroically no compromise-- incorporating him as if that were an example of what Krauthammer endorsed. Walker stood strong and alone. The compromisers did not. They gave into fear.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Don Carlos. </p>
<p>On retrospection, I see what is animating my thoughts and it is Krauthammer&#8217;s rebuke to the very people who risked something. And then incorporating into his argument someone like Scott Walker whose demeanor literally shouts friendliness and bi-partisanship but his actions were 100% heroically no compromise&#8211; incorporating him as if that were an example of what Krauthammer endorsed. Walker stood strong and alone. The compromisers did not. They gave into fear.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Don Carlos		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/08/12/krauthammer-on-the-debt-debate/#comment-259968</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don Carlos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2011 00:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8764#comment-259968</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I share Curtis&#039; disgust with the aircraft carrier analogy. Krauthammer is comfortable in his passivity, with his chin-stroking psychiatric approach; not exactly a man of action. 

To persist with the carrier analogy, one must consider that the command deck is peopled with idiots and the malevolent, the helm is not hard over, the engines are at slow forward, the radar is inoperative or ignored.

The SuperCommittee will be a disaster. Vicious assaulters(Cliburn for one) are in the same cage with softies (e.g. Kyl) and nothing good will emerge-one of the Repubs will cave, a la Boehner, and that will be that. 

We are at the point where one must ask whether playing by the rules must be abandoned. And act.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I share Curtis&#8217; disgust with the aircraft carrier analogy. Krauthammer is comfortable in his passivity, with his chin-stroking psychiatric approach; not exactly a man of action. </p>
<p>To persist with the carrier analogy, one must consider that the command deck is peopled with idiots and the malevolent, the helm is not hard over, the engines are at slow forward, the radar is inoperative or ignored.</p>
<p>The SuperCommittee will be a disaster. Vicious assaulters(Cliburn for one) are in the same cage with softies (e.g. Kyl) and nothing good will emerge-one of the Repubs will cave, a la Boehner, and that will be that. </p>
<p>We are at the point where one must ask whether playing by the rules must be abandoned. And act.</p>
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		<title>
		By: rickl		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/08/12/krauthammer-on-the-debt-debate/#comment-259966</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rickl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Aug 2011 23:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8764#comment-259966</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[texexec:
I agree with most of what you said at 3:40 pm, except that the Senate is &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; functioning as the Founders intended, ever since the ratification of the 17th Amendment.  A Senate that still represented the states&#039; interests would be a powerful check on the runaway growth of the federal government.  &lt;i&gt;That&#039;s&lt;/i&gt; what the Founders had in mind.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>texexec:<br />
I agree with most of what you said at 3:40 pm, except that the Senate is <i>not</i> functioning as the Founders intended, ever since the ratification of the 17th Amendment.  A Senate that still represented the states&#8217; interests would be a powerful check on the runaway growth of the federal government.  <i>That&#8217;s</i> what the Founders had in mind.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Curtis		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/08/12/krauthammer-on-the-debt-debate/#comment-259963</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Curtis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Aug 2011 23:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8764#comment-259963</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yeah, I spose it&#039;s academic at this point. The important  thing is protecting the 2012 vote from fraud. Hope there is: We could gain the Senate and the Presidency. And the 11th Circuit just struck down the mandate and it seems likely the Supreme Court will hear and rule likewise. 

This is the real test of the character of our nation: The tea party initiates the hard measures necessary to restore prosperity, there is genuine distress, but the people remain true. We weather the storm and for a generation the liberals are discredited.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I spose it&#8217;s academic at this point. The important  thing is protecting the 2012 vote from fraud. Hope there is: We could gain the Senate and the Presidency. And the 11th Circuit just struck down the mandate and it seems likely the Supreme Court will hear and rule likewise. </p>
<p>This is the real test of the character of our nation: The tea party initiates the hard measures necessary to restore prosperity, there is genuine distress, but the people remain true. We weather the storm and for a generation the liberals are discredited.</p>
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		<title>
		By: texexec		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/08/12/krauthammer-on-the-debt-debate/#comment-259960</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[texexec]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Aug 2011 22:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8764#comment-259960</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think the debt deal WAS a small victory and about all that could be accomplished with Republican control of only one branch of the legislature.  At least they were talking about cutting spending and not raising taxes instead of raising taxes and trying to figure out how to spend more money.

Want more?  Wanna &quot;keep the Republic&quot;?  Then do everything you can to help the Republicans capture a BIG majority in the Senate, keep the majority in the House, and elect a Republican president in 2012.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the debt deal WAS a small victory and about all that could be accomplished with Republican control of only one branch of the legislature.  At least they were talking about cutting spending and not raising taxes instead of raising taxes and trying to figure out how to spend more money.</p>
<p>Want more?  Wanna &#8220;keep the Republic&#8221;?  Then do everything you can to help the Republicans capture a BIG majority in the Senate, keep the majority in the House, and elect a Republican president in 2012.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Curtis		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/08/12/krauthammer-on-the-debt-debate/#comment-259957</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Curtis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Aug 2011 22:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8764#comment-259957</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I really believe people are missing a point, not because the idea &quot;the system worked&quot; is necessarily (per se) wrong, but because it doesn&#039;t mean anything meaningful.

Look at some of Krauthammer&#039;s language: &quot;change this fundamental should not be enacted quietly.&quot;

&quot;Change this fundamental?&quot; We&#039;ve gone so far around the bend that what the tea partier&#039;s want is &quot;change so fundamental?&quot; Reminds me of a joke: A man comes home, finds a man in bed with his wife. Wife says, &quot;Look who&#039;s here, big mouth. Now the whole neighborhood will know.&quot; 

Our freakish government is so far gone that the big perspective has been lost. Our country is committing adultery and were told to keep our mouth shut. 

The voting mob &quot;can&#039;t be dealt with. It feels no pity. It wants you dead. And it will not stop ever.&quot; But I digress here into &quot;hysteria,&quot; and I would spare you that. 

Another one: &quot;It deserves big, serious, animated public debate.&quot;

It does? Between whom? Fools and people answering fools? Krauthammer is bestowing legitimacy upon fools; it&#039;s been poverty and the threat of poverty which, for quite some time now, has turned the tide. Not debate. 

There is fear and denial which seeks to provide a false assurance and it asserts, &quot;Everything is okay. Hey, our system still works.&quot; 

Our system is broken because the actors therein are broken. We have enslaved our children, threatened our security, and now one little non-victory and our system works? 

Small victory, perhaps, the debt deal. Certainly, not a huge one, but to a people accustomed to losing, it seems large. Wisconsin was a great victory, but not the debt debate which will turn out on the outside just as it is on the inside.

There&#039;s no such thing as just the system. Thank God for the system but like Franklin told the questing lady, &quot;A Republic, madam, if you can keep it.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really believe people are missing a point, not because the idea &#8220;the system worked&#8221; is necessarily (per se) wrong, but because it doesn&#8217;t mean anything meaningful.</p>
<p>Look at some of Krauthammer&#8217;s language: &#8220;change this fundamental should not be enacted quietly.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Change this fundamental?&#8221; We&#8217;ve gone so far around the bend that what the tea partier&#8217;s want is &#8220;change so fundamental?&#8221; Reminds me of a joke: A man comes home, finds a man in bed with his wife. Wife says, &#8220;Look who&#8217;s here, big mouth. Now the whole neighborhood will know.&#8221; </p>
<p>Our freakish government is so far gone that the big perspective has been lost. Our country is committing adultery and were told to keep our mouth shut. </p>
<p>The voting mob &#8220;can&#8217;t be dealt with. It feels no pity. It wants you dead. And it will not stop ever.&#8221; But I digress here into &#8220;hysteria,&#8221; and I would spare you that. </p>
<p>Another one: &#8220;It deserves big, serious, animated public debate.&#8221;</p>
<p>It does? Between whom? Fools and people answering fools? Krauthammer is bestowing legitimacy upon fools; it&#8217;s been poverty and the threat of poverty which, for quite some time now, has turned the tide. Not debate. </p>
<p>There is fear and denial which seeks to provide a false assurance and it asserts, &#8220;Everything is okay. Hey, our system still works.&#8221; </p>
<p>Our system is broken because the actors therein are broken. We have enslaved our children, threatened our security, and now one little non-victory and our system works? </p>
<p>Small victory, perhaps, the debt deal. Certainly, not a huge one, but to a people accustomed to losing, it seems large. Wisconsin was a great victory, but not the debt debate which will turn out on the outside just as it is on the inside.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no such thing as just the system. Thank God for the system but like Franklin told the questing lady, &#8220;A Republic, madam, if you can keep it.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: expat		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/08/12/krauthammer-on-the-debt-debate/#comment-259949</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[expat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Aug 2011 20:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8764#comment-259949</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Baklava,
I don&#039;t know whether we will have to worry about Dems compromising. So much of their spending is for programs that don&#039;t work that I think the people are getting fed up. If you look at what Philly&#039;s mayor said about the flash mobs, it seems that minds are changing about the causes of problems and people will look to different solutions instead of more money being thrown away. Bill Cosby broke the ice on the black teens issue, but it&#039;s taken a few years for his message to penetrate. Similarly, when it really sinks in that Wisconsin is better off when union bargaining is restricted, more people will say, Why not here? 

Krauterhammer is right that our slow and messy system works. It gives the people time to rethink the old givens and form a new consensus. The leftist fringe is losing its allure. They just didn&#039;t know when to stop.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baklava,<br />
I don&#8217;t know whether we will have to worry about Dems compromising. So much of their spending is for programs that don&#8217;t work that I think the people are getting fed up. If you look at what Philly&#8217;s mayor said about the flash mobs, it seems that minds are changing about the causes of problems and people will look to different solutions instead of more money being thrown away. Bill Cosby broke the ice on the black teens issue, but it&#8217;s taken a few years for his message to penetrate. Similarly, when it really sinks in that Wisconsin is better off when union bargaining is restricted, more people will say, Why not here? </p>
<p>Krauterhammer is right that our slow and messy system works. It gives the people time to rethink the old givens and form a new consensus. The leftist fringe is losing its allure. They just didn&#8217;t know when to stop.</p>
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