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	Comments on: Debt ceiling negotiations, redux	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/07/29/debt-ceiling-negotiations-redux/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Curtis		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/07/29/debt-ceiling-negotiations-redux/#comment-257931</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Curtis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 15:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8404#comment-257931</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Is truth important? 

How about the BIRTHER controversy where most everyone &quot;agreed&quot; to turn a blind eye. Consider the following AT article which calls that behavior information cascade and Wilfred Trotter&#039;s herd-instinct behavior. 

&quot;the president&#039;s long-form birth certificate has a lengthy line of forgery experts willing to testify that the April 27th White House PDF is a complete digital fabrication.&quot;

http://tinyurl.com/3dgouuh]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is truth important? </p>
<p>How about the BIRTHER controversy where most everyone &#8220;agreed&#8221; to turn a blind eye. Consider the following AT article which calls that behavior information cascade and Wilfred Trotter&#8217;s herd-instinct behavior. </p>
<p>&#8220;the president&#8217;s long-form birth certificate has a lengthy line of forgery experts willing to testify that the April 27th White House PDF is a complete digital fabrication.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/3dgouuh" rel="nofollow ugc">http://tinyurl.com/3dgouuh</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Curtis		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/07/29/debt-ceiling-negotiations-redux/#comment-257927</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Curtis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 15:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8404#comment-257927</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Amy. I heartily agree. The following three excerpts capture the heart of McCarthy&#039;s argument:

&quot;John Boehner has a plan that he touts as slashing about $900 billion in government spending – shy of his original claim, only two days earlier, that cuts would amount to $1.2 trillion. It’s nonsense, of course. In Washington, unlike the rest of the known universe, a “cut” is a reduction in the rate of increase.&quot;

&quot;The saddest thing about Thomas Sowell’s take on all this is not his suggestion that the political fallout of the debt controversy trumps the substance of the debt problem. It is his intimation that the truth can’t win.&quot;

&quot;Our system is premised on the conviction that the right side can always win – that the strength of its arguments can turn the political tide and force even committed ideologues like Barack Obama to yield. And I believe the system works.&quot;


Basically, the plan is lies, fears and tears. It is not honest pragmatism. 

Don&#039;t be afraid of the coming hard times. The weak, lazy and dishonest will be winnowed out like chaff.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Amy. I heartily agree. The following three excerpts capture the heart of McCarthy&#8217;s argument:</p>
<p>&#8220;John Boehner has a plan that he touts as slashing about $900 billion in government spending – shy of his original claim, only two days earlier, that cuts would amount to $1.2 trillion. It’s nonsense, of course. In Washington, unlike the rest of the known universe, a “cut” is a reduction in the rate of increase.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;The saddest thing about Thomas Sowell’s take on all this is not his suggestion that the political fallout of the debt controversy trumps the substance of the debt problem. It is his intimation that the truth can’t win.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Our system is premised on the conviction that the right side can always win – that the strength of its arguments can turn the political tide and force even committed ideologues like Barack Obama to yield. And I believe the system works.&#8221;</p>
<p>Basically, the plan is lies, fears and tears. It is not honest pragmatism. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be afraid of the coming hard times. The weak, lazy and dishonest will be winnowed out like chaff.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Amy		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/07/29/debt-ceiling-negotiations-redux/#comment-257917</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 14:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8404#comment-257917</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Here we go. This is exactly right, in my hobbit-humble opinion. Worth reading the whole thing. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/print/273130&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Andrew McCarthy: Against the Boehner Plan&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here we go. This is exactly right, in my hobbit-humble opinion. Worth reading the whole thing. <a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/print/273130" rel="nofollow">Andrew McCarthy: Against the Boehner Plan</a>.</p>
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		By: Mr. Frank		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/07/29/debt-ceiling-negotiations-redux/#comment-257910</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mr. Frank]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 13:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8404#comment-257910</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ricki says: &quot;Sounds like they better get used to sweeping floors and scrubbing toilets for a living, or else starving in the gutter. I don’t much care which.

I have exactly zero concern for what the “urban poor” wants or likes.&quot;

I remember the urban riots of the Sixties. It didn&#039;t take much to set them off. Because Obama is black he has been getting a pass from blacks so far. With the current high unemployment among blacks and the destruction of the black middle class, a white, Republican president would be pilloried right now, and riots would be likely.

Obama&#039;s mere presence in the White House is buying us some time, but the economic data suggest no relief in sight. The flash mobs in the cities are a look into the future.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ricki says: &#8220;Sounds like they better get used to sweeping floors and scrubbing toilets for a living, or else starving in the gutter. I don’t much care which.</p>
<p>I have exactly zero concern for what the “urban poor” wants or likes.&#8221;</p>
<p>I remember the urban riots of the Sixties. It didn&#8217;t take much to set them off. Because Obama is black he has been getting a pass from blacks so far. With the current high unemployment among blacks and the destruction of the black middle class, a white, Republican president would be pilloried right now, and riots would be likely.</p>
<p>Obama&#8217;s mere presence in the White House is buying us some time, but the economic data suggest no relief in sight. The flash mobs in the cities are a look into the future.</p>
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		<title>
		By: SteveH		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/07/29/debt-ceiling-negotiations-redux/#comment-257904</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SteveH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 12:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8404#comment-257904</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;&quot;The meaning of freedom has been changed from freedom to achieve to freedom from all constraints,&quot;&quot;
expat

 Wasn&#039;t it FDR who came up with freedom from want? An absurd notion that probably set the course for the omniscient super state in charge of removing all suffering from life. And if it fails (which is guaranteed) it&#039;s really an issue of a lack of funding from heartless citizens who don&#039;t care.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8221;The meaning of freedom has been changed from freedom to achieve to freedom from all constraints,&#8221;&#8221;<br />
expat</p>
<p> Wasn&#8217;t it FDR who came up with freedom from want? An absurd notion that probably set the course for the omniscient super state in charge of removing all suffering from life. And if it fails (which is guaranteed) it&#8217;s really an issue of a lack of funding from heartless citizens who don&#8217;t care.</p>
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		<title>
		By: thomass		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/07/29/debt-ceiling-negotiations-redux/#comment-257901</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thomass]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 10:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8404#comment-257901</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[SteveH Says: 

&quot;What’s really frightening is NOBODY is talking about the massive wealth creation that will be needed to fix this mess.&quot;

Not gonna happen if we push taxes up to 20%+ of GDP to pay for the dems spending (assuming 3-4% more is paid with inflation...). :) 

So, a double whammy. Out of control spending with 1-2% growth.... Ah dem econ..]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SteveH Says: </p>
<p>&#8220;What’s really frightening is NOBODY is talking about the massive wealth creation that will be needed to fix this mess.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not gonna happen if we push taxes up to 20%+ of GDP to pay for the dems spending (assuming 3-4% more is paid with inflation&#8230;). 🙂 </p>
<p>So, a double whammy. Out of control spending with 1-2% growth&#8230;. Ah dem econ..</p>
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		<title>
		By: thomass		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/07/29/debt-ceiling-negotiations-redux/#comment-257900</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thomass]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 10:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8404#comment-257900</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I liked bill #3 much better than 1 or 2. Your right though; the Senate will tear it up and send it back. 

On the micro good side of this issue; all the dead on arrival talk and any gloating about rewrites by democrats chips away at their argument that wacko tea party people are causing this whole thing.

But the republicans will probably loose on the pr war on the whole for the issue. The house republican leaders are not up to arguing their case. The democrats tore up the constitution to pass the healthcare bill (used interstate commerce bs). They scammed paygo with reconciliation and bogus cbo data points… Now they’re creating a phony crisis with default talk and no Social Security checks + threats to creatively living constitution the 14th amendment. We shouldn’t need to have a fight over the debt ceiling but we are having it due to their previous pattern of lawlessness. This is a place we were able to get some footing to push back.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I liked bill #3 much better than 1 or 2. Your right though; the Senate will tear it up and send it back. </p>
<p>On the micro good side of this issue; all the dead on arrival talk and any gloating about rewrites by democrats chips away at their argument that wacko tea party people are causing this whole thing.</p>
<p>But the republicans will probably loose on the pr war on the whole for the issue. The house republican leaders are not up to arguing their case. The democrats tore up the constitution to pass the healthcare bill (used interstate commerce bs). They scammed paygo with reconciliation and bogus cbo data points… Now they’re creating a phony crisis with default talk and no Social Security checks + threats to creatively living constitution the 14th amendment. We shouldn’t need to have a fight over the debt ceiling but we are having it due to their previous pattern of lawlessness. This is a place we were able to get some footing to push back.</p>
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		<title>
		By: expat		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/07/29/debt-ceiling-negotiations-redux/#comment-257899</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[expat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 09:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8404#comment-257899</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Amy,
I think the people are frightened, but I think the problem is caused by lack of leadership. If we had a president who believed in this country, recognized its strengths, and really tried to pull us together with coherent policies, the people would take heart. 
What we now have is a man who worked as a victim group recruiter and protest organizer who equates those things with building a community. We&#039;ve had about 50 years of this kind of leadership from the left, people who told women they can have it all and told inner city blacks that the college degree even without accomplishment is what will get them ahead. These &quot;leaders&quot; have told them  someone else is to blame if they don&#039;t have it all. They have turned attention away from the essential questions about what makes a good life. For me, a good life is about relationships and accomplishments, no matter how modest. There is something unbelievably satisfying about saying to yourself, I did it when what you did reflects your own desires and your own efforts. Today, we have allowed that to be taken from large parts of our people. Ivy credentials and thread counts in sheets have been used to separate people who count from those who don&#039;t.  Michelle Obama once complained that when you achieved something &quot;they&quot; raised the bar. Guess what, Michelle, stop trying to jump over their bar. Pick another course. Our country is big enough and free enough to let people do this. It has gotten where it is because we&#039;ve let people have their own dreams. The meaning of freedom has been changed from freedom to achieve to freedom from all constraints, including the laws of physics.

The fear of the people will subside when they finally have people in government and positions of power who respect them and encourage them and recognize them for what they contribute to our society. Then people will not be frightened about raising the retirement age.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amy,<br />
I think the people are frightened, but I think the problem is caused by lack of leadership. If we had a president who believed in this country, recognized its strengths, and really tried to pull us together with coherent policies, the people would take heart.<br />
What we now have is a man who worked as a victim group recruiter and protest organizer who equates those things with building a community. We&#8217;ve had about 50 years of this kind of leadership from the left, people who told women they can have it all and told inner city blacks that the college degree even without accomplishment is what will get them ahead. These &#8220;leaders&#8221; have told them  someone else is to blame if they don&#8217;t have it all. They have turned attention away from the essential questions about what makes a good life. For me, a good life is about relationships and accomplishments, no matter how modest. There is something unbelievably satisfying about saying to yourself, I did it when what you did reflects your own desires and your own efforts. Today, we have allowed that to be taken from large parts of our people. Ivy credentials and thread counts in sheets have been used to separate people who count from those who don&#8217;t.  Michelle Obama once complained that when you achieved something &#8220;they&#8221; raised the bar. Guess what, Michelle, stop trying to jump over their bar. Pick another course. Our country is big enough and free enough to let people do this. It has gotten where it is because we&#8217;ve let people have their own dreams. The meaning of freedom has been changed from freedom to achieve to freedom from all constraints, including the laws of physics.</p>
<p>The fear of the people will subside when they finally have people in government and positions of power who respect them and encourage them and recognize them for what they contribute to our society. Then people will not be frightened about raising the retirement age.</p>
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		<title>
		By: rickl		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/07/29/debt-ceiling-negotiations-redux/#comment-257898</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rickl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 09:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8404#comment-257898</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;I don’t think that people in the blogosphere are typical of the average American. I’m not talking about their political persuasions–liberal, conservative, or in-between. I’m talking about their &lt;i&gt;intensity&lt;/i&gt; about politics, and their interest in it and patience for reading and thinking about it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, I resent having to think about politics 24/7/365.  That is not a natural state of affairs.

Before the New Deal, the average American citizen had little if any interaction with the federal government.  The governing authorities were local, county, and state governments, in that order.

But nowadays the federal government asserts total control over everybody and everything, and is stampeding across the landscape like Godzilla on crystal meth.

We definitely need to change it back.  And then we could get back to our normal lives and would no longer need to be obsessed with federal politics.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite=""><p>I don’t think that people in the blogosphere are typical of the average American. I’m not talking about their political persuasions–liberal, conservative, or in-between. I’m talking about their <i>intensity</i> about politics, and their interest in it and patience for reading and thinking about it.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, I resent having to think about politics 24/7/365.  That is not a natural state of affairs.</p>
<p>Before the New Deal, the average American citizen had little if any interaction with the federal government.  The governing authorities were local, county, and state governments, in that order.</p>
<p>But nowadays the federal government asserts total control over everybody and everything, and is stampeding across the landscape like Godzilla on crystal meth.</p>
<p>We definitely need to change it back.  And then we could get back to our normal lives and would no longer need to be obsessed with federal politics.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bobar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/07/29/debt-ceiling-negotiations-redux/#comment-257877</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bobar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 02:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=8404#comment-257877</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Amy - People want something for nothing or something for the least expenditure of energy - hence our modern technological western society.
It does come at a price. Those who can&#039;t or won&#039;t be educated will be left at the mercy of the government. God help them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amy &#8211; People want something for nothing or something for the least expenditure of energy &#8211; hence our modern technological western society.<br />
It does come at a price. Those who can&#8217;t or won&#8217;t be educated will be left at the mercy of the government. God help them.</p>
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