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	Comments on: Why Clinton got a pass and Weiner hasn&#8217;t	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://thenewneo.com/2011/06/14/why-clinton-got-a-pass-and-weiner-hasnt/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/06/14/why-clinton-got-a-pass-and-weiner-hasnt/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:02:58 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/06/14/why-clinton-got-a-pass-and-weiner-hasnt/#comment-251597</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J. formerly Jimmy J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=7254#comment-251597</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[neo said, &quot;But it is another form of overreach to decide that perjury consists of a misleading statement under oath by a person you don’t like. It is not.&quot;

Tell it to Scooter Libby.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>neo said, &#8220;But it is another form of overreach to decide that perjury consists of a misleading statement under oath by a person you don’t like. It is not.&#8221;</p>
<p>Tell it to Scooter Libby.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Don Carlos		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/06/14/why-clinton-got-a-pass-and-weiner-hasnt/#comment-251520</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don Carlos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 03:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=7254#comment-251520</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Weiner story was &quot;much more in our face&quot; because the evidence is visual, unlike Clinton&#039;s.
Weiner is gross, which may be fine with his constituents, and reflect upon them.
But neither W nor the Clintons were truthful about personal conduct.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Weiner story was &#8220;much more in our face&#8221; because the evidence is visual, unlike Clinton&#8217;s.<br />
Weiner is gross, which may be fine with his constituents, and reflect upon them.<br />
But neither W nor the Clintons were truthful about personal conduct.</p>
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		<title>
		By: righthook38		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/06/14/why-clinton-got-a-pass-and-weiner-hasnt/#comment-251493</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[righthook38]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=7254#comment-251493</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think part of the difference is because the Weiner situation was much more in our face.  With Clinton, it was stories and rumors. We didn&#039;t actually see anything.  With Weiner, pics of his privates are all over the internet, and it&#039;s gross.  

And I think the fact that he was so extremely cocky (no pun intended) with reporters while knowing full well it was a lie, just made him that much more dispicable to us.  He&#039;s a jerk.  At least Clinton was a little more personable, although I&#039;ve personally never been a fan.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think part of the difference is because the Weiner situation was much more in our face.  With Clinton, it was stories and rumors. We didn&#8217;t actually see anything.  With Weiner, pics of his privates are all over the internet, and it&#8217;s gross.  </p>
<p>And I think the fact that he was so extremely cocky (no pun intended) with reporters while knowing full well it was a lie, just made him that much more dispicable to us.  He&#8217;s a jerk.  At least Clinton was a little more personable, although I&#8217;ve personally never been a fan.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/06/14/why-clinton-got-a-pass-and-weiner-hasnt/#comment-251419</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 19:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=7254#comment-251419</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[JJ: You might think the law is about clever wordsmithing, but I disagree strongly.  The laws about perjury have evolved over time in order to protect the state from perjury, but at the same time to finely balance the definition of perjury so that it is not overbroad.  Perjury is NOT the same as our common sense idea of lying, or evading the truth, or misleading, or not giving out full and complete information.  I am preparing a post (maybe for tomorrow, or in a few days) on the subject of Clinton and whether he committed perjury, because clearly there&#039;s much more to be said on this matter.

The law may seem like nitpicking and hairsplitting.  Sometimes, of course, it is.  But the reason for the careful attention to words and what they mean is that therein lie important safeguards to our liberty, and protection from the overreach of the law &lt;i&gt;or&lt;/i&gt; of the mob.  

Your informant lawyer is an example of that overreach.  The Constitution, and guilt and innocence, can and do still matter.  But it is another form of overreach to decide that perjury consists of a misleading statement under oath by a person you don&#039;t like.  It is not.

By the way, I never was a Clinton fan, even when I was a Democrat and voted for him.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JJ: You might think the law is about clever wordsmithing, but I disagree strongly.  The laws about perjury have evolved over time in order to protect the state from perjury, but at the same time to finely balance the definition of perjury so that it is not overbroad.  Perjury is NOT the same as our common sense idea of lying, or evading the truth, or misleading, or not giving out full and complete information.  I am preparing a post (maybe for tomorrow, or in a few days) on the subject of Clinton and whether he committed perjury, because clearly there&#8217;s much more to be said on this matter.</p>
<p>The law may seem like nitpicking and hairsplitting.  Sometimes, of course, it is.  But the reason for the careful attention to words and what they mean is that therein lie important safeguards to our liberty, and protection from the overreach of the law <i>or</i> of the mob.  </p>
<p>Your informant lawyer is an example of that overreach.  The Constitution, and guilt and innocence, can and do still matter.  But it is another form of overreach to decide that perjury consists of a misleading statement under oath by a person you don&#8217;t like.  It is not.</p>
<p>By the way, I never was a Clinton fan, even when I was a Democrat and voted for him.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/06/14/why-clinton-got-a-pass-and-weiner-hasnt/#comment-251409</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J. formerly Jimmy J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 18:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=7254#comment-251409</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[vanderleun said, &quot;Did Clinton skate? Why yes he did by being found not guilty. Was he guilty? No he wasn’t since he was found &#039;not guilty.&#039;&quot; 

Which  is one of the problems with the law as practiced today. It really is  more about clever wordsmithing and  not so much about justice. 

As one lawyer told me, &quot;The law is what we say  it is. The Constitution and all those old ideas of weighing guilt and innocence no longer carry as much weight.&quot; 

Kinda explains why there is a TEA Party.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>vanderleun said, &#8220;Did Clinton skate? Why yes he did by being found not guilty. Was he guilty? No he wasn’t since he was found &#8216;not guilty.'&#8221; </p>
<p>Which  is one of the problems with the law as practiced today. It really is  more about clever wordsmithing and  not so much about justice. </p>
<p>As one lawyer told me, &#8220;The law is what we say  it is. The Constitution and all those old ideas of weighing guilt and innocence no longer carry as much weight.&#8221; </p>
<p>Kinda explains why there is a TEA Party.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Parker		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/06/14/why-clinton-got-a-pass-and-weiner-hasnt/#comment-251393</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Parker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 16:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=7254#comment-251393</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Okay, I did some checking this morning and discovered my memory was less than accurate.  I jumped the gun and should have checked before typing. 

Still it remains obvious, at least to me, that he knowingly  committed perjury per the definition supplied by Neo.  1.) The statement was made under oath.  2.) The statement concerning the issue at hand, sexual relations with Lewinsky, was material and relevant to Jones&#039; accusation.  3.) Clinton certainly had an intent to deceive.  However, instead of being judged guilty of perjury, Clinton was held to be in civil contempt of court by Judge Susan Wright (ironically one of his former law students) and his license to practice law in Arkansas was suspended for 5 years. The SCOTUS later upheld that suspension.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I did some checking this morning and discovered my memory was less than accurate.  I jumped the gun and should have checked before typing. </p>
<p>Still it remains obvious, at least to me, that he knowingly  committed perjury per the definition supplied by Neo.  1.) The statement was made under oath.  2.) The statement concerning the issue at hand, sexual relations with Lewinsky, was material and relevant to Jones&#8217; accusation.  3.) Clinton certainly had an intent to deceive.  However, instead of being judged guilty of perjury, Clinton was held to be in civil contempt of court by Judge Susan Wright (ironically one of his former law students) and his license to practice law in Arkansas was suspended for 5 years. The SCOTUS later upheld that suspension.</p>
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		<title>
		By: vanderleun		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/06/14/why-clinton-got-a-pass-and-weiner-hasnt/#comment-251380</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vanderleun]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=7254#comment-251380</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Please focus here: There is &quot;lying&quot; and there is &quot;misleading&quot; and then there is &quot;perjury.&quot; The first two are behaviors, the last is a crime. &quot;Perjury&quot; is a very specific crime and is defined clearly in statute, and people can avoid committing it and avoid being found guilty of it by speaking in very specific ways. The result, if they do it well, is exoneration and a not guilty verdict. 

In the Clinton case, the charge of perjury was weak and could not be proved. Hence the &quot;perjury&quot; charge failed not only to be carried with the 2/3rds vote but failed to garner even a simple majority (45-55) which included 10 Republicans. Probably because the Senators (many lawyers among them) had a much clearer idea of what the meaning of &quot;perjury&quot; is than laymen. Obstruction also failed at 50/50 votes. Hence, whether we like or not, Clinton was in a formal and irrevocable manner found not guilty of the high crimes and misdemeanors specifically charged.

Saying he &quot;shoulda woulda couda&quot; means exactly nothing after the fact of acquittal. Saying &quot;I woulda&quot; means zero, zip, squat, nada other than &quot;I pulled out a plum and said what a good boy am I.&quot;  It&#039;s blathering.

Did Clinton skate? Why yes he did by being found not guilty. Was he guilty? No he wasn&#039;t since he was found &quot;not guilty.&quot; 


Still a bitter pill after all these years and still met with the &quot;yes, but...&quot; sputter, but still the truth.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please focus here: There is &#8220;lying&#8221; and there is &#8220;misleading&#8221; and then there is &#8220;perjury.&#8221; The first two are behaviors, the last is a crime. &#8220;Perjury&#8221; is a very specific crime and is defined clearly in statute, and people can avoid committing it and avoid being found guilty of it by speaking in very specific ways. The result, if they do it well, is exoneration and a not guilty verdict. </p>
<p>In the Clinton case, the charge of perjury was weak and could not be proved. Hence the &#8220;perjury&#8221; charge failed not only to be carried with the 2/3rds vote but failed to garner even a simple majority (45-55) which included 10 Republicans. Probably because the Senators (many lawyers among them) had a much clearer idea of what the meaning of &#8220;perjury&#8221; is than laymen. Obstruction also failed at 50/50 votes. Hence, whether we like or not, Clinton was in a formal and irrevocable manner found not guilty of the high crimes and misdemeanors specifically charged.</p>
<p>Saying he &#8220;shoulda woulda couda&#8221; means exactly nothing after the fact of acquittal. Saying &#8220;I woulda&#8221; means zero, zip, squat, nada other than &#8220;I pulled out a plum and said what a good boy am I.&#8221;  It&#8217;s blathering.</p>
<p>Did Clinton skate? Why yes he did by being found not guilty. Was he guilty? No he wasn&#8217;t since he was found &#8220;not guilty.&#8221; </p>
<p>Still a bitter pill after all these years and still met with the &#8220;yes, but&#8230;&#8221; sputter, but still the truth.</p>
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		By: gcotharn		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/06/14/why-clinton-got-a-pass-and-weiner-hasnt/#comment-251362</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gcotharn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 04:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=7254#comment-251362</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@roy lofquist
Thank you for the clarification re the definition of &quot;high crimes and misdemeanors&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@roy lofquist<br />
Thank you for the clarification re the definition of &#8220;high crimes and misdemeanors&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/06/14/why-clinton-got-a-pass-and-weiner-hasnt/#comment-251363</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 04:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=7254#comment-251363</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jim Kearney: I fully expected many people here to disagree with me on Clinton.  But &lt;a href=&quot;http://neoneocon.com/2011/06/14/why-clinton-got-a-pass-and-weiner-hasnt/#comment-251284&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;see my comment above&lt;/a&gt; about the subject of Clinton&#039;s lies, perjury, etc.

Nor do I think that Clinton was &lt;i&gt;correct&lt;/i&gt; to trust Lewinsky.  Nothing he did in the entire incident, from start to finish, was correct.  My point was a different one---merely that, just playing the odds, it&#039;s a better bet to trust one person whom you actually know and can evaluate in person, compared to six (or more people) you&#039;ve never even met.  The chances of exposure in the latter case is even greater, and therefore the action more stupid.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim Kearney: I fully expected many people here to disagree with me on Clinton.  But <a href="http://neoneocon.com/2011/06/14/why-clinton-got-a-pass-and-weiner-hasnt/#comment-251284" rel="nofollow">see my comment above</a> about the subject of Clinton&#8217;s lies, perjury, etc.</p>
<p>Nor do I think that Clinton was <i>correct</i> to trust Lewinsky.  Nothing he did in the entire incident, from start to finish, was correct.  My point was a different one&#8212;merely that, just playing the odds, it&#8217;s a better bet to trust one person whom you actually know and can evaluate in person, compared to six (or more people) you&#8217;ve never even met.  The chances of exposure in the latter case is even greater, and therefore the action more stupid.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Occam's Beard		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/06/14/why-clinton-got-a-pass-and-weiner-hasnt/#comment-251359</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Occam's Beard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 03:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=7254#comment-251359</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;The first word that came to mind was murder as in a group of crows, but I thought that a bit dire so gaggle seemed a more PC alternative.&lt;/i&gt;

How about a &quot;squawk&quot; of feminists?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The first word that came to mind was murder as in a group of crows, but I thought that a bit dire so gaggle seemed a more PC alternative.</i></p>
<p>How about a &#8220;squawk&#8221; of feminists?</p>
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