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	<title>
	Comments on: David Warren on Libya: &#8220;we don&#8217;t know what we are doing&#8221;	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 23:25:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Parker		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-236140</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Parker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 23:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-236140</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;I just wonder what will be next?&quot;

Corpses stinking of sh%t and p%ss.  The dogs will be well fed.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I just wonder what will be next?&#8221;</p>
<p>Corpses stinking of sh%t and p%ss.  The dogs will be well fed.</p>
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		<title>
		By: LAG		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-236091</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LAG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-236091</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[daniel, I think your final point will happen whether any of the others do or not. As soon as the American media realize this is not going to play well for Obama, and there are signs now among the Congress-things, it will drop its coverage like a hot rock. No morning show angst, no softball interviews with O the Liberator, nada.

I just wonder what will be next?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>daniel, I think your final point will happen whether any of the others do or not. As soon as the American media realize this is not going to play well for Obama, and there are signs now among the Congress-things, it will drop its coverage like a hot rock. No morning show angst, no softball interviews with O the Liberator, nada.</p>
<p>I just wonder what will be next?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Amy		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-236071</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-236071</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/03/no-debate-and-no-objective-obama-enters-war#ixzz1HLkquzaU&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tim Carney, in the Washington Examiner&lt;/a&gt;: &lt;i&gt;At once presumptuous and flippant, President Obama used a Saturday audio recording from Brazil to inform Americans he had authorized a third war -- a war in which America&#039;s role is unclear and the stated objectives are muddled.

Setting aside the wisdom of the intervention, Obama&#039;s entry into Libya&#039;s civil war is troubling on at least five counts. First is the legal and constitutional question. Second is the manner of Obama&#039;s announcement. Third is the complete disregard for public opinion and lack of debate. Fourth is the unclear role the United States will play in this coalition. Fifth is the lack of a clear endgame. Compounding all these problems is the lack of trust created by Obama&#039;s record of deception.&lt;/i&gt;

I find the legal and constitutional question most troubling, particularly since the Obama administration time and again has shown itself willing to bend, ignore and suspend the law on behalf of ideology.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/03/no-debate-and-no-objective-obama-enters-war#ixzz1HLkquzaU" rel="nofollow">Tim Carney, in the Washington Examiner</a>: <i>At once presumptuous and flippant, President Obama used a Saturday audio recording from Brazil to inform Americans he had authorized a third war &#8212; a war in which America&#8217;s role is unclear and the stated objectives are muddled.</p>
<p>Setting aside the wisdom of the intervention, Obama&#8217;s entry into Libya&#8217;s civil war is troubling on at least five counts. First is the legal and constitutional question. Second is the manner of Obama&#8217;s announcement. Third is the complete disregard for public opinion and lack of debate. Fourth is the unclear role the United States will play in this coalition. Fifth is the lack of a clear endgame. Compounding all these problems is the lack of trust created by Obama&#8217;s record of deception.</i></p>
<p>I find the legal and constitutional question most troubling, particularly since the Obama administration time and again has shown itself willing to bend, ignore and suspend the law on behalf of ideology.</p>
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		<title>
		By: kolnai		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-236067</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kolnai]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-236067</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s Stanley Kurtz taking a stab at a &quot;knave&quot; explanation:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/262725/president-reticent-stanley-kurtz

So on this reading, Obama is cementing Samantha Power&#039;s pet &quot;Responsibility to Protect&quot; principle with a kind of &quot;pilot intervention.&quot;  

Not sure about that, though it&#039;s as plausible as anything else at this point.  And it does account for all of the weirdness - ignoring Congress, curtseying to the UN, etc.  

Dunno.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s Stanley Kurtz taking a stab at a &#8220;knave&#8221; explanation:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/262725/president-reticent-stanley-kurtz" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/262725/president-reticent-stanley-kurtz</a></p>
<p>So on this reading, Obama is cementing Samantha Power&#8217;s pet &#8220;Responsibility to Protect&#8221; principle with a kind of &#8220;pilot intervention.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Not sure about that, though it&#8217;s as plausible as anything else at this point.  And it does account for all of the weirdness &#8211; ignoring Congress, curtseying to the UN, etc.  </p>
<p>Dunno.</p>
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		<title>
		By: daniel		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-236057</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[daniel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 15:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-236057</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My prediction:

- we back out of this in a couple of weeks, leaving c&#038;c in place for the europeans

- The Europeans back out after a few more weeks, citing mission accomplished

- Daffi moves in without air and slaughters the same number of civilians that he would have slaughtered with air support

- Daffi stays in charge

- American media just drops coverage and we all forget about this before summer.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My prediction:</p>
<p>&#8211; we back out of this in a couple of weeks, leaving c&amp;c in place for the europeans</p>
<p>&#8211; The Europeans back out after a few more weeks, citing mission accomplished</p>
<p>&#8211; Daffi moves in without air and slaughters the same number of civilians that he would have slaughtered with air support</p>
<p>&#8211; Daffi stays in charge</p>
<p>&#8211; American media just drops coverage and we all forget about this before summer.</p>
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		<title>
		By: kolnai		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-236047</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kolnai]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 14:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-236047</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Beverly -

My Latin is as rusty as Barack Obama&#039;s actual writing abilities, but &quot;Bellum interruptus&quot; is quite clever.  I love it (the phrase, not the practice).    

I&#039;m on board with you not being able to figure this thing out.  I had a long discussion with my brother last night to that end, and we were still stumped when we finished.  

I don&#039;t see what Obama gets out of it, aside from some cheap validation of his multilateral, un-bush, internationalist bona fides.  I&#039;m not sure what Libya gets out of it.  The mission sends no message at all to anyone we&#039;d like to send a message to.  Obama ignored Congress, for reasons I can&#039;t fathom, thus unnecessarily setting himself up to fall hard if things go bad.  

On this one, I&#039;m thinking &quot;fool&quot; is the explanation.  The only account I can come up with is bumbling incompetence and lack of concern.  It feels really weird not being able to understand why Obama chose to intervene, to what end, and how exactly he plans to secure it.  I can&#039;t even feel strongly &quot;pro&quot; or &quot;con&quot; - I&#039;m just mystified.  

Anyone got any clue about the TOTUS&#039;s thinking here?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beverly &#8211;</p>
<p>My Latin is as rusty as Barack Obama&#8217;s actual writing abilities, but &#8220;Bellum interruptus&#8221; is quite clever.  I love it (the phrase, not the practice).    </p>
<p>I&#8217;m on board with you not being able to figure this thing out.  I had a long discussion with my brother last night to that end, and we were still stumped when we finished.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see what Obama gets out of it, aside from some cheap validation of his multilateral, un-bush, internationalist bona fides.  I&#8217;m not sure what Libya gets out of it.  The mission sends no message at all to anyone we&#8217;d like to send a message to.  Obama ignored Congress, for reasons I can&#8217;t fathom, thus unnecessarily setting himself up to fall hard if things go bad.  </p>
<p>On this one, I&#8217;m thinking &#8220;fool&#8221; is the explanation.  The only account I can come up with is bumbling incompetence and lack of concern.  It feels really weird not being able to understand why Obama chose to intervene, to what end, and how exactly he plans to secure it.  I can&#8217;t even feel strongly &#8220;pro&#8221; or &#8220;con&#8221; &#8211; I&#8217;m just mystified.  </p>
<p>Anyone got any clue about the TOTUS&#8217;s thinking here?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Beverly		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-236010</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Beverly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 05:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-236010</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I had forgotten about David Warren; thanks for the reminder. I&#039;ve often liked his columns.

I really can&#039;t make head or tail of this Libya affair. If Obummer really wanted to stop him from killing his people, why didn&#039;t he? I mean, before he had the chance to do it? 

Also, I want to kick him in the fanny every time he gives our enemies a &quot;date certain&quot; when we will pull out. &lt;i&gt;Bellum interruptus&lt;/i&gt; is impotence indeed. (Erm, feel free to correct my Latin: I know it&#039;s a highly inflected language, but I never studied it.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had forgotten about David Warren; thanks for the reminder. I&#8217;ve often liked his columns.</p>
<p>I really can&#8217;t make head or tail of this Libya affair. If Obummer really wanted to stop him from killing his people, why didn&#8217;t he? I mean, before he had the chance to do it? </p>
<p>Also, I want to kick him in the fanny every time he gives our enemies a &#8220;date certain&#8221; when we will pull out. <i>Bellum interruptus</i> is impotence indeed. (Erm, feel free to correct my Latin: I know it&#8217;s a highly inflected language, but I never studied it.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: gs		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-235983</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 02:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-235983</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[1. If Obama fires Hillary for her &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/262574/graham-i-thank-god-strong-women-obama-administration-robert-costa&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;bad advice&lt;/a&gt;, she has a perfect pretext to primary him.  If he keeps her around, good luck getting her to recognize her mistake.

2. What&#039;s the absolute dumbest thing Obama can do under the circumstances?  Blame the military for botching the implementation of his strategic genius.  

Just sayin&#039;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. If Obama fires Hillary for her <a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/262574/graham-i-thank-god-strong-women-obama-administration-robert-costa" rel="nofollow">bad advice</a>, she has a perfect pretext to primary him.  If he keeps her around, good luck getting her to recognize her mistake.</p>
<p>2. What&#8217;s the absolute dumbest thing Obama can do under the circumstances?  Blame the military for botching the implementation of his strategic genius.  </p>
<p>Just sayin&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: texexec		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-235972</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[texexec]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 01:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-235972</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is the weirdest entry by the USA into armed combat I can remember.  This administration is like the Keystone Cops.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the weirdest entry by the USA into armed combat I can remember.  This administration is like the Keystone Cops.</p>
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		<title>
		By: betsybounds		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-235970</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[betsybounds]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 01:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2011/03/21/david-warren-on-libya-we-dont-know-what-we-are-doing/#comment-235970</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been thinking that the Jewish feast of Purim may have a direct application to Libya. It certainly applies to Darfur and Rwanda, and probably other, similar situations as well. Here&#039;s the short version: In the Book of Esther, the King of Persia succumbs to pressure to order the Hebrews slaughtered. However, he does not know that his wife, Queen Esther, is a Hebrew and so will be slaughtered along with all the others. When she tells him, while he cannot rescind his first order, he issues a second: The Hebrews shall be armed and permitted to defend themselves. This is the origin of the feast of Purim, meaning the casting of lots, for the date set for the Hebrews&#039; attempted slaughter and self-defense was set by the casting of lots. 

I&#039;ve always thought it would be a good modern application of this old, old story to allow people who are oppressed and marked for slaughter to be armed and permitted to defend themselves, rather than being forced into the uncertain, undignified, and supplicant position of being dependent on the sketchy good-will and alleged protection of such worthless outfits as the UN and, yes, even the U.S.  It was the ultimate in being self-congratulatory and patronizing to refuse the Darfur refugees arms against their Sudanese-government-sponsored Janjaweed persecutors.  Instead, we herded them into refugee camps and gave them a bit of food between attacks.  How awful it all was--and yet we want to repeat it again and again.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking that the Jewish feast of Purim may have a direct application to Libya. It certainly applies to Darfur and Rwanda, and probably other, similar situations as well. Here&#8217;s the short version: In the Book of Esther, the King of Persia succumbs to pressure to order the Hebrews slaughtered. However, he does not know that his wife, Queen Esther, is a Hebrew and so will be slaughtered along with all the others. When she tells him, while he cannot rescind his first order, he issues a second: The Hebrews shall be armed and permitted to defend themselves. This is the origin of the feast of Purim, meaning the casting of lots, for the date set for the Hebrews&#8217; attempted slaughter and self-defense was set by the casting of lots. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always thought it would be a good modern application of this old, old story to allow people who are oppressed and marked for slaughter to be armed and permitted to defend themselves, rather than being forced into the uncertain, undignified, and supplicant position of being dependent on the sketchy good-will and alleged protection of such worthless outfits as the UN and, yes, even the U.S.  It was the ultimate in being self-congratulatory and patronizing to refuse the Darfur refugees arms against their Sudanese-government-sponsored Janjaweed persecutors.  Instead, we herded them into refugee camps and gave them a bit of food between attacks.  How awful it all was&#8211;and yet we want to repeat it again and again.</p>
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