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	Comments on: More on marriage and kids	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://thenewneo.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 21:19:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Tatyana		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-206196</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tatyana]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 21:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-206196</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To clarify, Oblio:

On my own blog I am free to set up policy. Which is described in &quot;About&quot; section.
But even if you (or anybody else) did not read it, I think general principle of polite conversation would be obvious to anybody: do NOT come to someone&#039;s blog for the first time and start by throwing rude remarks of the host. Especially if they are unfounded.

I don&#039;t think this is too much to ask.
But if you find it unbearable - then no, you probably will not be welcome @my place.

The only reason I asked you to move our conversation from Neo&#039;s thread is because this is &lt;i&gt; Neo&#039;s&lt;/i&gt; thread, and I think it is impolite to use her hospitality for tangential conversation that veered off-topic. Your leaving comments addressed to me here, instead of coming to my place, I also consider rude. As if this blog is some sort of online depository.

In case of E, I know what I am talking about, he(or she?) does too, as does the Indian phony who uses proxy for her warring. It concerns nobody else. And it is not your place to lecture me on something you know nothing about.

Besides, E&#039;s comment betrayed complete misunderstanding of my post -which you, actually, understood better in your previous comments here - and was just a pretext for calling me names. I was , in fact, very tolerant with him/her: otherwise I would simply marked the comment as spam when it first appeared in my inbox.

But, by all means - if you think I have no right, at my own place, to blacklist trolls who come to insult me - we have too different ideas of acceptable behavior; so I withhold my invitation to you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To clarify, Oblio:</p>
<p>On my own blog I am free to set up policy. Which is described in &#8220;About&#8221; section.<br />
But even if you (or anybody else) did not read it, I think general principle of polite conversation would be obvious to anybody: do NOT come to someone&#8217;s blog for the first time and start by throwing rude remarks of the host. Especially if they are unfounded.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think this is too much to ask.<br />
But if you find it unbearable &#8211; then no, you probably will not be welcome @my place.</p>
<p>The only reason I asked you to move our conversation from Neo&#8217;s thread is because this is <i> Neo&#8217;s</i> thread, and I think it is impolite to use her hospitality for tangential conversation that veered off-topic. Your leaving comments addressed to me here, instead of coming to my place, I also consider rude. As if this blog is some sort of online depository.</p>
<p>In case of E, I know what I am talking about, he(or she?) does too, as does the Indian phony who uses proxy for her warring. It concerns nobody else. And it is not your place to lecture me on something you know nothing about.</p>
<p>Besides, E&#8217;s comment betrayed complete misunderstanding of my post -which you, actually, understood better in your previous comments here &#8211; and was just a pretext for calling me names. I was , in fact, very tolerant with him/her: otherwise I would simply marked the comment as spam when it first appeared in my inbox.</p>
<p>But, by all means &#8211; if you think I have no right, at my own place, to blacklist trolls who come to insult me &#8211; we have too different ideas of acceptable behavior; so I withhold my invitation to you.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tatyana		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-206186</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tatyana]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 20:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-206186</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oblio:

I think the same of E- and now of you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oblio:</p>
<p>I think the same of E- and now of you.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Oblio		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-206086</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oblio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 10:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-206086</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tatyana, your treatment of E doesn&#039;t encourage me to comment at your site.  Who is this Indian person of whom you speak?  I&#039;m sure that E is as mystified as I am.  In any event, banning E makes you look as tiresome as the comment says you are.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tatyana, your treatment of E doesn&#8217;t encourage me to comment at your site.  Who is this Indian person of whom you speak?  I&#8217;m sure that E is as mystified as I am.  In any event, banning E makes you look as tiresome as the comment says you are.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Oblio		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-205282</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oblio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2010 19:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-205282</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The thread has played out.  The only thing I would add is that I did not mean to say anything that would censure or blame people who have been through divorce.  I am surrounded by them in my family, including both my siblings, my parents, and Mrs. Oblio&#039;s parents and one of her siblings.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thread has played out.  The only thing I would add is that I did not mean to say anything that would censure or blame people who have been through divorce.  I am surrounded by them in my family, including both my siblings, my parents, and Mrs. Oblio&#8217;s parents and one of her siblings.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tatyana		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-205201</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tatyana]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2010 13:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-205201</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oblio: thanks.
If you have something to say on topic, I&#039;ll be glad to see your comment under my post.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oblio: thanks.<br />
If you have something to say on topic, I&#8217;ll be glad to see your comment under my post.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Oblio		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-205077</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oblio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2010 01:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-205077</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tatyana, your site is beautiful.  You have a wonderful talent.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tatyana, your site is beautiful.  You have a wonderful talent.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Happy now? &#171; Ð¡ÐºÑ€Ð¸Ð¿ÑƒÑ‡Ð°Ñ Ð±ÐµÑÐµÐ´ÐºÐ°		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-204933</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Happy now? &#171; Ð¡ÐºÑ€Ð¸Ð¿ÑƒÑ‡Ð°Ñ Ð±ÐµÑÐµÐ´ÐºÐ°]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Dec 2010 16:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-204933</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] Oblio : the example of people who don’t stay married is before our eyes, and they don’t seem to be happy. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Oblio : the example of people who don’t stay married is before our eyes, and they don’t seem to be happy. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Oblio		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-204907</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oblio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Dec 2010 13:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-204907</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m on record here as saying the law is an ass, and I agree that on balance liberalization of the divorce laws since the Sexual Revolution hasn&#039;t been helpful.

Nevertheless, given the power of the social dynamics we are talking about here, the idea that a return to fault-based divorce would do anything to restore the attractiveness of marriage strikes me as far-fetched.  At the margin, it might help a little, at the cost of consequences that I can&#039;t completely foresee.  I&#039;m with Mrs Whatsit.  I don&#039;t know why we are barking up this tree.

To gain adoption and influence, the institution of marriage will need to outcompete the alternatives.  In the parts of society to which I am exposed, people who get married and stay married clearly outperform all the alternative arrangements, financially and with respect to child-rearing.     Maybe we have self-selected for discipline and self-control, as Occam&#039;s Beard suggested.  Still, the example of people who don&#039;t stay married is before our eyes, and they don&#039;t seem to be happy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m on record here as saying the law is an ass, and I agree that on balance liberalization of the divorce laws since the Sexual Revolution hasn&#8217;t been helpful.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, given the power of the social dynamics we are talking about here, the idea that a return to fault-based divorce would do anything to restore the attractiveness of marriage strikes me as far-fetched.  At the margin, it might help a little, at the cost of consequences that I can&#8217;t completely foresee.  I&#8217;m with Mrs Whatsit.  I don&#8217;t know why we are barking up this tree.</p>
<p>To gain adoption and influence, the institution of marriage will need to outcompete the alternatives.  In the parts of society to which I am exposed, people who get married and stay married clearly outperform all the alternative arrangements, financially and with respect to child-rearing.     Maybe we have self-selected for discipline and self-control, as Occam&#8217;s Beard suggested.  Still, the example of people who don&#8217;t stay married is before our eyes, and they don&#8217;t seem to be happy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ben David		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-204899</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Dec 2010 11:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-204899</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;Now&lt;/b&gt; I believe that Mrs. Whatsit is an attorney - only a lawyer could produce this circular, self-contradictory paragraph:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Immature, selfish parents are probably going to fight forever whether or not they get divorced. I don’t think any particular set of divorce laws can force anybody to grow up – but anything that gives warring spouses a weapon will be used to draw blood, and a solely fault-based divorce system is basically an ammunition depot. I could not disagree more with Art’s theory that a solely fault-based divorce system keeps erring spouses together. In my experience, all it does is give them more ways to hurt each other, and fewer options for the kind of relatively civilized resolution that helps their kids survive the battlefield.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

...but by your own admission, the courts will NEVER see the reasonable divorcees, under any system. Because they are &quot;grown ups&quot; who don&#039;t misuse the courts like the immature, vindictive ones do.

Let&#039;s consider, instead, the larger impact of divorce law on social norms and the decision to wed.

No-fault spawned -and bolsters - the culture of entitlement that has led men to shun marriage - and led women to accept childbearing out of wedlock. It has helped reduce the seriousness of the marriage bond.

The social dynamics behind the statistics go like this:

Lower class - government handouts enable and encourage out-of-wedlock births.

Middle/Upper class - no-fault divorce removes the risks of divorce for women, even women with children. Men wise up - and a cohort of women accommodate that by having children in &quot;stable&quot; relationships not legitimized by marriage.

So:
No-fault didn&#039;t solve the problem of immature divorcees, it just made it worse.

A return to fault-only divorce sends a much needed message that marriage is a serious commitment.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Now</b> I believe that Mrs. Whatsit is an attorney &#8211; only a lawyer could produce this circular, self-contradictory paragraph:</p>
<blockquote><p>Immature, selfish parents are probably going to fight forever whether or not they get divorced. I don’t think any particular set of divorce laws can force anybody to grow up – but anything that gives warring spouses a weapon will be used to draw blood, and a solely fault-based divorce system is basically an ammunition depot. I could not disagree more with Art’s theory that a solely fault-based divorce system keeps erring spouses together. In my experience, all it does is give them more ways to hurt each other, and fewer options for the kind of relatively civilized resolution that helps their kids survive the battlefield.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8230;but by your own admission, the courts will NEVER see the reasonable divorcees, under any system. Because they are &#8220;grown ups&#8221; who don&#8217;t misuse the courts like the immature, vindictive ones do.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s consider, instead, the larger impact of divorce law on social norms and the decision to wed.</p>
<p>No-fault spawned -and bolsters &#8211; the culture of entitlement that has led men to shun marriage &#8211; and led women to accept childbearing out of wedlock. It has helped reduce the seriousness of the marriage bond.</p>
<p>The social dynamics behind the statistics go like this:</p>
<p>Lower class &#8211; government handouts enable and encourage out-of-wedlock births.</p>
<p>Middle/Upper class &#8211; no-fault divorce removes the risks of divorce for women, even women with children. Men wise up &#8211; and a cohort of women accommodate that by having children in &#8220;stable&#8221; relationships not legitimized by marriage.</p>
<p>So:<br />
No-fault didn&#8217;t solve the problem of immature divorcees, it just made it worse.</p>
<p>A return to fault-only divorce sends a much needed message that marriage is a serious commitment.</p>
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		<title>
		By: E		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-204844</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[E]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Dec 2010 04:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/11/29/more-on-marriage-and-kids/#comment-204844</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oblio is merely following Austen&#039;s pattern, as outlined in Northanger Abbey: 

&quot;Wherever you are you should always be contented, but especially at home, because there you must spend the most of your time.&quot;

Wise and happy man!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oblio is merely following Austen&#8217;s pattern, as outlined in Northanger Abbey: </p>
<p>&#8220;Wherever you are you should always be contented, but especially at home, because there you must spend the most of your time.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wise and happy man!</p>
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