This would be an ironic replay of the Suez Crisis when Ike told the British and French to take their armies and go home, a very public demonstration that their day was over. China, then, becomes the maker and keeper of the peace in the region, having shown the US to be irrelevant. Bear in mind, too, that all this could be accomplished very cheaply. It’s just a matter of a phone call to Obama and other peoples’ blood. Although no longer useful to China, N. Korea would likely continue its dismal existence because closing it down isn’t worth the trouble. As for Obama, while the US forces withdraw from the Western Pacific, leaving Japan, S. Korea and Taiwan to make what deals they can with Beijing, he’ll be permitted to take a few bows on the world’s stage for his wise and prudent statesmanship. Such a welcome change from that horrid cowboy Bush!

Gee, looks like thousands of years of military history were right after all.

no… the one common thing in all these comments over two years is that my slate can be rewritten at will, and i am just being difficult to annoy you and everyone else.

so busy thinking as to what you want, you cant get how much your tormenting someone that cant meet your standard. and so has to suffer, there is no other choice as you and others are not offering any.

ever think that complicated turns of phrase and things are common in what i read, and that i don’t find such things convoluted?

or that i recurse a lot and can keep track of lots of sub recursions and such, and i don’t have a problem following it?

that i can use vague labels, like this or that, and can keep all those implied values not having a problem with them?

so i cant figure out what i am doing wrong. and that to write the way you are saying.

you are telling me to make it clear, and it is clear.. i dont have a problem understanding it when i read it or when others write that way (unless they write that way to bs people that they are saying something when they arent)

ever show me an example, and a rewrite of how it should be?

when you teach do you berate them for being wrong, and keep berating them telling them to be right but not illustrating anything?

no, of course not.. beat on someone enough and htey get it, or else they ahve to get used to being told over and over and over.

i cant change the way i think what i know. and all that. i cant change how i express it. i come from an arts and sciences family and to do so is to change me and who i am and how i express it. (guess you quit before the ansel adams quote)

so what does it all amount to your asking me to change what i cant change?

I already know all this stuff, and more, and in lots of areas… and history was one of my worst subjects.

you should try me on other things.

but you win.
i cant change, and my presence is too disturbing as i cant be accepted for what and who and how i am and what i bring the way i bring it.

i would have loved to learn to write better, then maybe instead of what i do, i can be a famous philosopher. maybe even the next cicero…

i write more like gurdjief… ever read him?

“A man can only attain knowledge with the help of those who possess it. This must be understood from the very beginning. One must learn from him who knows.”

but no.. i am way too obstinate, and have too much fun being disliked, critiqued, commented on, ignored while being commented on, and tons of other things…

after a few years, i now have a thin skin

and you actually didnt understand what i said.

Contrary to your assertion, I have no desire to ‘mold’ you nor have I been abusive, needlessly negative, or been part of expressed ‘collectivist’ anger at you.

really? then you have never been on the other side of a lifetime of peopel who saw you as the clay and project of the times.

your commentary certainly was not supportive of who i am now and that who i am is just fine, even if i dont write the way people find easy or pleasurable.

you DO have a desire, because those that dont, do not bother to write off subject and tell me i am making demands of them by writing a way they dont get.

and as far as warning.. you ARE… it doesnt matter what your PURPOSE is… it matters what the results are… what happens when strangers read those lines?

that as you noted, others dont wnat to waste their time. but causationally you dont relize that the reason its not polite to say such things is that those that dont know the person, their writings and such have now formed their first impression by your comments.

ever avoid someone due to rumor to find out that the rumor was wrong and they were not that way (to you) at all?

i was writing and reading at 13th grade level when i was 7… i am nearly half a century on. i like complicated phraseology and difficult recursion.

i do not wish to create a permanent record of my commentary so my bosses at liberal university can put me on the food line in unemployment. or state officials and others who i photograph might decide that i dont thik right. or a future contract i cant get because some wingnut decides that my liking merit is wrong.

ever think that there are good reasons that a person doesnt do what you do? ever think that a man that knows so much MIGHT just MIGHT be making choices out of that greater pool of knowlege and experience.

Nor was I ‘warning others of you’, ‘lacking in will or effort’ or unable to comprehend your brilliant insights.

But spouting such nonsense obviously brings you comfort.

if you cant understand the simple truth in reality that bad comments, and such heard by others before they meet a person, or their works, IS warning people and giving others a first impression of someone before they meet the actual person.

when people come out of a movie while your waiting on line, and you over hear them tell their friend how it sucked and all that. your not influenced?

we are in public, and so such commentary IS a warning… you dont have to precede it and post after it warning warning… please, your not that dense…

you never noticed that those who like to make social coalitions tend to look to build from playing on such comments to get a group together. (we had such a problem a while back when someone sought to do just that)

i am sorry, but if you cant see beyond the personal and get the empirical, then maybe its not just my writing.

anyway
ya dont have to worry much about it.

you win..

i cant change how i write (obviously)
and you cant take how i write

and in general, people like me dont like to make others uncomfortable and such… (read maslow)..

i have too much on my plate anway
and discussing facts that never existed, or ignoring others that do, just isnt debate… its just dead end.. might as well just sit aorund and make up stuff for all that gigo gives you… (and if you dont know its gigo, i guess that isnt my concern anymore, it certainly isnt one of yours)

thanks for the effort.
i am obviously too stupid and obstinate to change for you and to improve… and then collect the fruits of life in my elder years.

my talents run to music and mathematics, and art and sciences… not writing for entertainment.

We’re all our own worst enemy Artfldgr and as long as you continue to equate constructive criticism with personal attack, you will exemplify that truism…

and as long as you think its constructive to not give examples and teach and think its constructive to keep saying the same thing over that is so nasty and amounts to “you should be someone else”, your teaching will not teach…

and your not going to realize that what your giving is abuse and control masquerading as constructive criticism.

i learned a long time ago how that game is played, how one can be so nasty as to say someone should be someone else without saying it, then hide that its all for them that your hurting them is to help them and and they should appreciate it.

but in essence, there was nothing operative i could use in what you said. did you qiuote a paragraph for me? illustrate your point? show where i dont do it? and where i did?

its that lack that makes the prior abuse.

and if you dont get that, well then maybe you dont get why such doesnt work.

ever have a woman play the you know what you did wrong and i dont have to tell you game?

your playing a variant…

Of the three sentences above, the first is an admission of being uninformed. The last is a rhetorical question. Only his characterization of your comments as “ridiculously excessive” could you take umbrage at. Yet you turned two words into an attack upon your worth and the value of your comments.

I, on the other hand tried to explain why the excessive length of your comments was off-putting, which has less to do with the length and far more to do with the rambling presentation.

FYI, I hadn’t read your prior reply to Curtis,“your right curtis, i cant summarize or put things together that way. divergent thinking means that every concept leads to thousands of others…hard to get things ordered for others who want ideas to be the way they think, and converge.

… its not automatic, and not having gone through academia, the side effect of a couple of decades coaching as to how to do that, was never given to me.”

I accept that it is difficult for you but doubt your expressed inability to learn how. As you occasionally do provide comments that are relatively concise.

I’ll be brief in my response to your 2,045 word reply and ‘riposte’. (I used microsoft’s word check)

I make NO demands upon you to meet any imagined idea of writing style, frankly, I could care less. I simply pointed out to you, your lack of coherence.

And, I only did that in response to your attack upon Oldflyer, which tangentially included reference to anyone else who had previously advanced the same view.

Regardless of what you might think, pointing out the necessity for logic in exposition to communicate effectively is not an ‘arbitrary standard’ “made up for themselves”.

I’ve never questioned your originality, just your clarity in communicating.

Contrary to your assertion, I have no desire to ‘mold’ you nor have I been abusive, needlessly negative, or been part of expressed ‘collectivist’ anger at you.

Nor was I ‘warning others of you’, ‘lacking in will or effort’ or unable to comprehend your brilliant insights.

But spouting such nonsense obviously brings you comfort.

So, I shan’t offer constructive criticism in the future, since it’s obviously wasted effort.

We’re all our own worst enemy Artfldgr and as long as you continue to equate constructive criticism with personal attack, you will exemplify that truism…

YOU and others don’t get that you have no right to make ANY demands on me to meet your idea of writing style or to make more effort. [Ever read Gurdjieff I guess not, he didn’t write for you either]

Don’t you get that that is the very heart of freedom sir? To not be subjected to the force and will of others to comply to an arbitrary standard they made up for themselves?

Sometimes you high minded freedom fighters tend to wear despotic clothes more than the fruit bats you’re commenting on.

Now, do you want to share your work on its own merits or must we stroke your ego as the price of admission?

Let me see if you understand what you’re actually saying to someone, and hopefully, you can maybe understand how you feel (being bullied).

I personally do not think its ego stroking for people to hold their tongue on saying not nice things, and that the withdrawal of abuse and negative commentary is not ego stroking.

how’s this.. I decide to focus on some part of you that you can’t change. You’re a cripple, you talk funny because your deaf, your mute, have palsy, your deformed, you’re just not what I want you to be in some way that I think you should be in order to deserve the right for me to not say things to you, and that for me to stop, would be ego stroking. So in essence you have to beat on someone to make sure they don’t get to big in their britches for you and perhaps be what they want to be, and not what you want them to be.

And then I decide to comment on you. Hey! Geoffrey stutters… why should we listen to Geoffrey the stutterer… lets make jokes about Geoffrey the stutterer… hey stutterer, if you want to be a part of our group and have us listen to you, then go out and get a cure and then come back and we might start trying!!!

Why do you stutter Geoffrey? Geoffrey you know if you don’t stutter people will magically like you (I tempt you with a prize I can’t deliver).

I never ever listen to what a stutterer like Geoffrey says, I have to concentrate too hard and its wrong for him to DEMAND that I concentrate on what he says… and I think that all you people should treat Geoffrey the way I do, and maybe just maybe we can make him miserable enough, feel the pain enough, and all that, to finally become someone we might want to see if we might like.

[get the feeling that I have met a lot of Geoffrey’s in my life?]

If he wants to be listened to by the likes of us, and get the big huge rewards we are offering him!!! oh, the benefits are enumerable. Fame, fortune, maybe I Geoffrey might even read a comment he makes and say something trite like Paris Hilton and declare his words cool or not.

I mean I just don’t understand why he doesn’t do all that.

Doesn’t he really understand how wonderful and important we are and now much more important our time is than his time, and how he should bow to us to be approved so tha we will read the writings we force him to write, rather than read what he wants to say the way he wants to say it. How dare he!

I have met a lot of parasitical termites in my life, they starve playing their games

Here is your missive in a nutshell – and maybe if you get it, you might get that I am an original individual who knows all this and can do all I do, precisely because I don’t fall victim to the bullshit arguments of people who really offer me nothing in exchange for something.

either your like us or what we want you to be, or we will abuse and harangue you until you leave, get tired, become depressed, or whatever we can do to you to get you to comply with our wishes. Be a part of the herd and comply with us so we don’t have to expend effort, or go, and we will find some other sucker who will cater to us for nothing (so there). And if you want to be treated nicely, respectfully, with no snide comments bout what you cant change, we will under no circumstances stroke your ego by removing the abuse, until you become what we want you to be. face it, we don’t like you, and when you become someone else, then maybe we will see if we like you

You have no right to try to mold me to some person you enjoy better for the reason that its easier for you to be entertained!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ESPECIALLY when all you and others offer is the FALSE promise or withholding your abuse, negative, commentary, and generally collectivist anger.

You’re no freaking different than the thug who wants a store to pay him for not breaking the windows.

Don’t think so, well then look at your language!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what you in effect do with such a presentation is demand that the reader…

Are you fng bonkers? I DEMAND of you by how I write?

Oh… and my reward for such “demands” is to be abused and have comments in the third party with the idea of manipulating others to also collectively act…

Ever stand there as someone tells someone else something bad or negative about you (who doesn’t know you, read you, etc), as if your not there? You may not want to read me, but do you realize your negative comments denies others who may like to read me from taking a chance? That if Occam (and others who do enjoy) listened to people like you, he would never have learned what he learned by reading and checking out things.

Which is the point…

Your sullying me to others because YOU don’t like me is not a public service
Refraining from sullying me because of your own opinion, is not ego stroking

Telling me that you will no longer sully me if I comply with your critical desires amounts to being a gatekeeper for the rest of the people while never being appointed by them to filter what they can partake in.

oh.. and lets take the second half, that’s a beauty too

What you in effect do with such a presentation is demand that the reader invest an inordinate amount of time, prior to determining the worth and relevance of your comments, for the reader.

So let me see if i get this right…

You wont read me until your positively sure by my writing style that I am worthy of your precious time. And that you think that because everyone is like you, your commentary that they read before reading me, is a social service making sure that others don’t waste their time and expend effort to understand something that you find you can’t muster the effort or will to.

So if you buy a book too hard for you, or in a style you don’t like, you think that the author is demanding things of you?

If you buy a book and the author is rambling and you don’t like him the way some others do, that you have to comment so as to warn others not to waste their time?

Want to know what? I agree… you shouldn’t have to pay for the writing you don’t like.

So in the interest of fairness, honesty and good will. I am offering you a credit, you can get your money back and spend your money and buy someone elses words and in that way, put your vote into the COMMERCIAL market of entertainment writing.

What? You didn’t pay anything? The credit is meaningless?

So is your point, even if you don’t get it, I am sure many others just did.

You didn’t pay, and you can’t grant me others will like me if I write to your ideals. Can you?

So all your really offering me in exchange if I write better, work harder, take more time, is that someone who belittles, critiques what they don’t read, advertises to others who they should or shouldn’t listen or try to read, might read me.

And that’s a very big might…

Since you are assuming that if I construct the writing better, throw out salient points to make it short, and do all those neat and proper things, the content which you don’t understand will become understandable, and you will be filled with the desire to read my posts and then say nice things.

You realize that I am not writing for narcissistic pleasure, right?

You realize that I am writing in a bad time in history to help others not be ignorant, right?

You realize that if it wastn like that, and that wasn’t happening, I would not be commenting on any of this, as I would be very happy knowing, and leaving you in the complete dark..

You realize that given what’s coming, my efforts come at a cost I know I will pay very dearly for if they win and those costs are such that if I leave you in the dark, I have much better odds?

You realize that without me posting that stuff, a very many people would never really know the facts?

I am sorry you feel that my writing makes demands of you
If it does, then that’s the price to pay for the knowledge inside that.

You ended with
If “brevity be the soul of whit”, a coherent, concise presentation is the heart of education.

Fine… then I will riposte.

First of all, you mean wit, not whit…
the keen perception and cleverly apt expression of those connections between ideas that awaken amusement and pleasure.

Note that I don’t give a whit about wit since wit doesn’t teach a whit about anything! [I am sorry if this is makng demands of you]

Parry

I see your Shakespeare quote on wit, and raise you:

“Quotation is a serviceable substitute for wit.”

I think though that you don’t like wit when its directed at you
And since I see wit as an act of abuse (something that you obviously have problems with when thinking removing abuse is ego stroking)

“Good nature is more agreeable in conversation than wit, and gives a certain air to the countenance which is more amiable than beauty”

So your advice I will be liked better for: “Wit is educated insolence.” Aristotle

Personally I don’t use wit as I can bite harder than most and while entertaining for those to watch the person get beat up, I don’t entertain that way.

Most of our pocket wisdom is conceived for the use of mediocre people, to discourage them from ambitious attempts, and generally console them in their mediocrity.

I believed better of everyone…

And riposte

Intellectual freedom is the right of every individual to both seek and receive information from all points of view without restriction. It provides for free access of all expressions of ideas through which any and all sides of a question, cause or movement may be explored. // Intellectual freedom is the basis of our democratic system. We expect our people to be self-governors. But to do so responsibly, our citizenry must be well informed.

Parry

It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.

And thrust

It is a truth, however sad and strange, that we cannot give what we have not got, and cannot teach to other people what we do not know ourselves.

Touché!

To educate a man is to unfit him to be a slave!
Frederick Douglas

“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” Martin Luther king

And my last point

“No man has the right to dictate what other men should perceive, create or produce, but all should be encouraged to reveal themselves, their perceptions and emotions, and to build confidence in the creative spirit.” Ansel Adams…

Rather it is the frequently rambling, confusing, disjointed, stream-of-consciousness presentation of your comments which is being criticized. What you in effect do with such a presentation is demand that the reader invest an inordinate amount of time, prior to determining the worth and relevance of your comments, for the reader.

Now, do you want to share your work on its own merits or must we stroke your ego as the price of admission?

I don’t agree…

I would rather stand up and be torn apart by the furies than debase myself to the irrelevancy of fantasy as my belief system, accept convenience and circumstance as my modifier of moral action, while being advised by pragmatic expediency (without regard to anything but myself).

Your mileage may vary

and thanks occam and curtis..
and your right curtis, i cant summarize or put things together that way. divergent thinking means that every concept leads to thousands of others…. great for inventing and turning ideas all around, hard to get things ordered for others who want ideas to be the way they think, and converge.

if you can get passed it, you will find that its information rich, and idea rich, and more than makes up in content what it loses in composition.

yes great writers can do both. but i never ever claimed that i was a good writer, its not automatic, and not having gone through academia, the side effect of a couple of decades coaching as to how to do that, was never given to me.

those who do social engineering know what their games do to the top performers of such… which is why their suicide rate is so high, their success rate is very low if not in a contrived place, and social violence whether physical or mental is a constant from others.

while they say i dont have aspergers, i ahve discussed more than once here having autistic ‘skills’ despite not being autistic.

so yes… the problme comes from having rain man abilities… that was VERY astute of you…

your brain is paring down information, mine offers me everything in huge quantity.

think of it this way… if you think my writing is information dense, very interconnected, have obscure relationships and wide reference… remember thats a linear expression of what in my head is a 4D hyper linked whole in which all these cross links, ideas, and relationships exist at one time.

i would hope that someone like occam would notice if i have improved from a long time ago..

expat helped give me insight into how others exprience it, and without ego, it was very welcome as i can use it to refine and try.

funny… but when i was young, and maslow was very popular, the shrinks that would study me because i was not only a eidetic poodle, but can create art as well, would constantly point out maslow seminal book chapters 11 and 12…

most who take up the moniker do so because of their deep desire to be what they are not, and be regarded by others as what they are not, without having to invest in actually being it

i am lucky enough to own a copy of that book, given to me when i was young by a young researcher working on her doctorate thesis (me).

thanks for the kind words curtis… 🙂