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	Comments on: Pennsylvania 12 special election	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161316</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J. formerly Jimmy J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 18:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161316</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[ELC, Yes, and I always remind the sloganeers that none of them have a national defense worthy of the name because they have put their money in social programs and have relied on us to defend them.  All over the free world peaceful, decent people sleep well at night because they know the USA has a bunch of rough men and high tech weapons standing at the ready.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ELC, Yes, and I always remind the sloganeers that none of them have a national defense worthy of the name because they have put their money in social programs and have relied on us to defend them.  All over the free world peaceful, decent people sleep well at night because they know the USA has a bunch of rough men and high tech weapons standing at the ready.</p>
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		<title>
		By: expat		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161266</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[expat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 13:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161266</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[ELC,  I would follow up the quote you cited with something like, &quot;and all those countries have problems or limitations in their systems. I am upset because congress just dumped a law on us without explaining how our system would not repeat the mistakes of others. I would like to know that they had spent more time on considering longer term ramifications of the law than in arm-twisting legislators. We are all grown-ups and know that hard choices have to be made, so why aren&#039;t they treating us like grown-ups?&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ELC,  I would follow up the quote you cited with something like, &#8220;and all those countries have problems or limitations in their systems. I am upset because congress just dumped a law on us without explaining how our system would not repeat the mistakes of others. I would like to know that they had spent more time on considering longer term ramifications of the law than in arm-twisting legislators. We are all grown-ups and know that hard choices have to be made, so why aren&#8217;t they treating us like grown-ups?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: ELC		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161242</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ELC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 04:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161242</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[“We’re the only industrial nation without socialized medicine.”

We need to start reminding people that AMERICA WAS FOUNDED to be the ALTERNATIVE to the REST OF THE WORLD.

And the rest of the world needs an alternative as much now as it did 200+ years ago.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“We’re the only industrial nation without socialized medicine.”</p>
<p>We need to start reminding people that AMERICA WAS FOUNDED to be the ALTERNATIVE to the REST OF THE WORLD.</p>
<p>And the rest of the world needs an alternative as much now as it did 200+ years ago.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Assistant Village Idiot		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161236</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Assistant Village Idiot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 03:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161236</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Heh.  I should also note that these milder comments are what I think others should do.  I tend to play a little rougher.

My new one, only tried twice, has been &quot;If we wanted an expensive insoluble problem to tackle that helped the actual poor, we should have chosen homelessness.  The poor already had health insurance.  Obamacare is about eliminating feelings of insecurity in the middle class, not helping the poor.&quot;  I haven&#039;t got the phrasing down the way I&#039;d like it, but on one occasion, it was actually the most liberal person who looked startled and was clearly prompted to actually think.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh.  I should also note that these milder comments are what I think others should do.  I tend to play a little rougher.</p>
<p>My new one, only tried twice, has been &#8220;If we wanted an expensive insoluble problem to tackle that helped the actual poor, we should have chosen homelessness.  The poor already had health insurance.  Obamacare is about eliminating feelings of insecurity in the middle class, not helping the poor.&#8221;  I haven&#8217;t got the phrasing down the way I&#8217;d like it, but on one occasion, it was actually the most liberal person who looked startled and was clearly prompted to actually think.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161217</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J. formerly Jimmy J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 00:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161217</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[rickl, No offense taken. It was on a Holland America ship, which caters to a more elderly crowd. &quot;The gray of head and almost  dead&quot; are their clientele. Most of the libs are probably well heeled or at least have secure government pensions. And most of the  libs were easterners. We met a couple from Denver that we enjoyed great political and social compatibility with. However, the libs seemed in the majority.  

My typical strategy when dealing with these people is to ask them questions that  I know they will have a hard time answering. Such as, &quot;How much is Obamacre cutting out  of Medicare Advantage to help pay for other insurance needs?&quot; If they can  answer that then I know we can  have a discussion - otherwise, they will just repeat talking points like, &quot;We&#039;re the only industrial nation without socialized medicine.&quot;

The Arizona immigration law was a major issue for a lot of them. How dare we ask people who have broken a law to identify themselves? My question was, &quot;What would happen to you if you broke a law in Mexico and were stopped by the  Mexican gendarmes?&quot; That allowed them to at least consider if this was such a draconian law. But some were still outraged. 

My opinion remains that we have a fight on our hands if we want to elect more fiscal conservatives in November.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rickl, No offense taken. It was on a Holland America ship, which caters to a more elderly crowd. &#8220;The gray of head and almost  dead&#8221; are their clientele. Most of the libs are probably well heeled or at least have secure government pensions. And most of the  libs were easterners. We met a couple from Denver that we enjoyed great political and social compatibility with. However, the libs seemed in the majority.  </p>
<p>My typical strategy when dealing with these people is to ask them questions that  I know they will have a hard time answering. Such as, &#8220;How much is Obamacre cutting out  of Medicare Advantage to help pay for other insurance needs?&#8221; If they can  answer that then I know we can  have a discussion &#8211; otherwise, they will just repeat talking points like, &#8220;We&#8217;re the only industrial nation without socialized medicine.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Arizona immigration law was a major issue for a lot of them. How dare we ask people who have broken a law to identify themselves? My question was, &#8220;What would happen to you if you broke a law in Mexico and were stopped by the  Mexican gendarmes?&#8221; That allowed them to at least consider if this was such a draconian law. But some were still outraged. </p>
<p>My opinion remains that we have a fight on our hands if we want to elect more fiscal conservatives in November.</p>
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		<title>
		By: rickl		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161210</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rickl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 22:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161210</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[AVI is right, J.J.  I don&#039;t begrudge you or anyone else for taking a cruise.  I was merely trying to come up with an explanation for why you encountered so many moonbats and Obama supporters on your cruise.  I&#039;m sorry if I wasn&#039;t clearer about that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AVI is right, J.J.  I don&#8217;t begrudge you or anyone else for taking a cruise.  I was merely trying to come up with an explanation for why you encountered so many moonbats and Obama supporters on your cruise.  I&#8217;m sorry if I wasn&#8217;t clearer about that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: expat		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161179</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[expat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 18:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161179</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Avi,  How about &quot;It&#039;s not turning out the way I hoped&quot;?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Avi,  How about &#8220;It&#8217;s not turning out the way I hoped&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Assistant Village Idiot		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161154</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Assistant Village Idiot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 14:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161154</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Such excellent commenters.  You host a great salon, neo.  I was developing a list as I read down of people I wanted to acknowledge as having made important observation, but others clearly had the same idea.

First - no one begrudges you your cruise, JJ.  Have another.  But there are sectors of the economy that are somewhat insulated, which don&#039;t feel the pinch personally for quite a while in a down economy, and such would likely be over-represented (though not universal) among cruise-goers.

The article&#039;s closing - that traditional Dems might not switch votes but just &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; vote, is a wise caution.  I hope that local Tea Partiers take especial note in those districts.  DirtyJobsGuy&#039;s assessment of the area is on point, and should keep us all alert.  Yes, it is a single district, with its own idiosyncracies - but every district is a single district, not reflecting national opinion trends entirely.  If we can&#039;t preach small government but we can preach honest government, start there.  And barely anyone is arguing for &lt;i&gt;bigger&lt;/i&gt; government at this point, even among those who have generally approved of what the government has done since 2006.  Even Bobo&#039;s are wondering whether we&#039;ve jumped the shark.  

Well, except in DC, of course.  They are still ravenous.

If you have cruise-mates, NoCal relatives, arts &#038; humanities-employed acquaintances or the like, you might have to ratchet down and just shake your head solemnly saying &quot;These are all good things, but I have to wonder if it&#039;s just too much.  We may regret this down the road.&quot;  That may strike a chord even among the Blue Believers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Such excellent commenters.  You host a great salon, neo.  I was developing a list as I read down of people I wanted to acknowledge as having made important observation, but others clearly had the same idea.</p>
<p>First &#8211; no one begrudges you your cruise, JJ.  Have another.  But there are sectors of the economy that are somewhat insulated, which don&#8217;t feel the pinch personally for quite a while in a down economy, and such would likely be over-represented (though not universal) among cruise-goers.</p>
<p>The article&#8217;s closing &#8211; that traditional Dems might not switch votes but just <i>not</i> vote, is a wise caution.  I hope that local Tea Partiers take especial note in those districts.  DirtyJobsGuy&#8217;s assessment of the area is on point, and should keep us all alert.  Yes, it is a single district, with its own idiosyncracies &#8211; but every district is a single district, not reflecting national opinion trends entirely.  If we can&#8217;t preach small government but we can preach honest government, start there.  And barely anyone is arguing for <i>bigger</i> government at this point, even among those who have generally approved of what the government has done since 2006.  Even Bobo&#8217;s are wondering whether we&#8217;ve jumped the shark.  </p>
<p>Well, except in DC, of course.  They are still ravenous.</p>
<p>If you have cruise-mates, NoCal relatives, arts &amp; humanities-employed acquaintances or the like, you might have to ratchet down and just shake your head solemnly saying &#8220;These are all good things, but I have to wonder if it&#8217;s just too much.  We may regret this down the road.&#8221;  That may strike a chord even among the Blue Believers.</p>
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		<title>
		By: roc scssrs		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161153</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[roc scssrs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 14:14:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161153</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Bitter Pennsylvanians, still clinging.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bitter Pennsylvanians, still clinging.</p>
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		<title>
		By: expat		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161138</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[expat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 11:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/05/19/pennsylvania-12-special-election/#comment-161138</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think we need to forget about converting the clueless. It is enough if we get them to vote none of the above by staying home. I think a lot of young Obama fans may be inclined this way because hope and change is so yesterday and the oceans are still rising. And keep in mind Wright&#039;s assertion that he was thrown under the bus by Obama. Ask the question &quot;who&#039;s next?&quot; and you might get a few people to sleep in on election day.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we need to forget about converting the clueless. It is enough if we get them to vote none of the above by staying home. I think a lot of young Obama fans may be inclined this way because hope and change is so yesterday and the oceans are still rising. And keep in mind Wright&#8217;s assertion that he was thrown under the bus by Obama. Ask the question &#8220;who&#8217;s next?&#8221; and you might get a few people to sleep in on election day.</p>
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