ALL except for one Sergey

the one that anticipated just that and saw that, and planned for that!!!

no.. the foundation of prosperity is PROPERTY

one has to own before one can profit.

so one owns oneself as an individual and can earn a salary by renting oneself out to other people for an acceptable amount.

you can work FREELY because you own yourself.

in a collective, as we are moving to, you do NOT own yourself, the collective does. and so you cant actually contract your labor or anything, because its not yours to contract out

happiness in the constitution is a referral to property

socialism enslaves the population by understanding that a man with no property has no place of his own.

by owning everything material, they own all the people who have no right to be on their property witout compensation. and since tehy own nothing, then slavery is the compensation.

as i have been trying to say, LEARN about the ideology its implications and such.. then you will understand them.

to think that profit is a foundation, is to forget property.

and

failure to understand property is foundational, you might just accept a bit of socialism as a good thing

but once they acted this way, ALL property was theirs. time was the only thing left remaining.

you try to make a profit from nothing!!!

Hey! That’s my line! /g

i prefer..

When your tired of voting for the lesser of two evils…

Geoffrey of Britain ??? Do you really expect us to make sense of those last paragraphs?

Have you not learned that I do not respond well to ad hominem as a debate form? that brutal commentary from someone I don’t know, doesn’t affect me, has no entitlement to my life and energies, and all that, will not get you anywhere (you would actually want to go).

So here is my answer. NO, I only expect SOME of those with the capacity to read, comprehend, and do so with texts harder than 5th or 8th grade, the latter being the old standard of the middle of last century, the former the current standard.

GOB, you don’t have to read me. You don’t HAVE to understand me.
But trying to control other people is the whole core of the problem we face
And if we can’t get control of ourselves and that particular attitude, as you so clearly show then we are no better than other despots and control freaks.

Personally I am a completely free man who is subject to no idiots missives or insults to move me to where THEY want for THEM.

Personally doing such is what idiots do best as its their majority method of parasitism.

Is that a better answer GOB….

The VAT certainly will significantly increase the cost of goods to the consumer. But the gov’t. will harvest vast new revenues which will allow them to keep the ponzi scheme going longer, perhaps much longer.

Part of good reading skills is understanding that the answer you just gave was not an answer and that the sentences were sarcasm to get us to move off the canned responses which are propagandist lies and move us to real answers that follow cause and effect.

The govt will NOT harvest new revenues, it will harvest LESS.
And if you would take a minute, and concentrate real hard, you will see that this will happen because this is a dynamic and adaptable system, it REACTS to STIMULI.

And to get this, one has to think synoptically… a talent that most do not have, and most fancy they do. In fact they are so poor at it, you can slowly move a population to self slavery!!!!!!!!!!! That you can divide a quarter into a heads piece and a half piece is inane but the ignorant do it. Just as they make false summations. The trick is in knowing.

Here is what will happen… they will talk for a while, like now… and those who are a bit more intelligent will put some food and other stables away… they will go up in price, and there will be a salary lag. So better to buy some now, sit tight and so on. I learned that from depression era people.

So what will happen is that there will be a big buy out at the low tax rate.
The tax rate will rise, and of course… the money will not appear.

As I said,the majority worker will continue to buy food, but will NOT continue to buy doohickeys. Our economy is MOSTLY doohickeys not food and fuel. So when they stop buying the products that put cash into a majority of spenders pockets, they will also stop buying doohickies.

Now, here is the fun part. if you know communism, and socialism, and all that as what it REALLY is, then you would know that luxuries are a bad thing. the problem is that you don’t get that everything above food, fuel, shelter, basic med, is considered a luxury by them, and so EVERYTHING of that sort is a waste and a inefficiency.

As far as owners go, they are owners of a farm, not a house. You are not a pet with toys, you are a drought horse. One only has to read the Washington times and its expose article on falun gong, and house Christians. Tibetans being mined for body parts. In prison they are a cost, in the street they are a danger promoting religion, but imprisoned and taken apart, they are worth 100k to the Chinese government. isn’t PRAGMATISM great?

ONLY the people in state who are more important than you and I, get to have any of these things. your going to have to have them removed from you as they facilitate capital and success and that facilitates opposition, and they will NOT allow opposition, which is why the family has to go (they are well along with this), social romantic pairings (as they will die for each other not the state), religion has to go (other than Islam (for now)), art work is philosophically a waste other than for the state (see NEA social justice pages), pets and such have to go…

And so you think a vat will delay things..
I am telling you that it will FACILIATE things
Because as supply of money goes down, we restrict out purchases to basic needs
And if the majority only have enough for housing, electricity, food and a bit of med, what is there left to tax, or to take?

Now granted this is a longer paragraph than my originals,. But it seems that the slow ones want an explanation in detail that is too large for them to read and that when its smaller they are too ignorant of principals and potentials, that they don’t understand it.

They also, as you allude to, intend to greatly reduce expenditures on defense.

Well, I didn’t ALLUDE to it, I SAID it… that might be why you don’t understand what I write, you have a general inexact grasp of English, and I write from an exacting place.

To allude is to say without saying…

we have moved our financing of military to lower than before WWII as a percentage of GDP

That is a STATEMENT… not an allusion… while it sounds nice when you write to use words like allusion, you really have to wait for someone to make one, in order to use it.

We HAVE already moved it to the level I have said and you are stating is coming.
What’s coming is moving it LOWER. than that.
While at the same time, Russia is mass producing a cheap missile system that will facilitate using shipping containers from china as an invasion potential. At the very least it will make every productive country vulnerable in ways that the unproductive despotic ones are not.

That is, we would have to accept the missiles in order to get our supplies
Bet you didn’t see that synoptic view! (and that’s why my simple sentences don’t reach you. without me pointing it out, and spoon feeding you like pabulum, you cant see it. and you can thank the education system invented by the soviets, transplanted by Dewey and copied by all the western states as they use the Prussian model…)

they’re not done soaking the rich either and are laying plans for global pursuit of the rich.

That wont work.. if it did, then WWII would more easily be ended by ignoring Germany and going for their money. Problem was it was the relatives of the people usurping power now that were funding the Germans (and Russians before that)…

The rich are mobile, especially the ones that they want to go after.
They CANT go after them.

Here is why… and what you and others don’t see… (by choice, because if you did, you would have to find other ideas, rather than banging on the bs one they handed you like a chew toy (for your mind to keep busy on)).

How much is one of those super wealthy people?
Gates over 40 BILLION
Paul McCartney? Half a billion

See there are different leagues

But imagine you decided to actually go after them.. what would happen if paul mcartney, bill gates, warren buffet, and more… each pledged 10% and used that to fund weaponry of EVERY terrorist group they could.

I mean, what if bill gates, says… better to put 10 billion contract out on American state than let them take that 10 billion and use it against me and my family?

Not possible? Well that is EXACTLY what happened. Osama bin laden is worth how much? why is he still worth anything? Ayers? He is from a wealthy family, no? what is he doing with that time and such? Soros?

The idea is like the soviets. They pretend to go after the wealthy, and the wealthy pretend they are being hunted… but in truth, you can’t go after someone that can fund your whole army for a few years out of their pocket. Can you?

So the whole thing, as bella dodd described, is a way for the wealthy to trick YOU, into loseing your life ends, and property.

They won’t get the rich because they ARE the rich.
(and everyone is too stupid to see that. here let me put it in a way you can understand given that you have complained: its impossible to elect someone to a position to shoot themselves. you might elect them, but they wont shoot. And if you get one that will, he wont be elected)

All this just faciliatates their taking of what you have since your weak
They need your permission to act.

If they didn’t have some permission, we would LITERALLY take em out and hang em.
[that used to happen]

So, what will happen in Obama’s socialistic utopia is the impoverishment of America, which will have to find solace in the fact that the majority of Americans will be equally miserable.

No.. that’s not the end story… your story of a beaten people (which is what it is) as being morally superior, doesn’t cut it with someone who has seen where tha will goeventually. All your doing is describing what all of Norway, and Sweden and other sdocialist countries and America have always denied.

Socialism, communism, fascism, and progressivism are the same thing

Want to know there are other people that behave the same way you just described?

Well, my grandparents… they too had been beaten by life and socialist circumstances.
And a person who is bit by a dog hard, they avoid dogs, and the things that would allow another bite to hurt more. In this case, owning property which hurts to lose.

You spin it as a morally superior way of life..

But it isnt. Not because living that way is not moral, it is. but living that way because you were whipped is not the same thing as embracing that way because you are that way.

The final end to it is that they will nto spend on invention. they will squirrel for rainy days, and will nto take risks.

The behavior you described is ‘risk aversion’, not cultural moral choices.

You even point out the Pavlovian training they got to be that way
And that even though they are no longer there, like a good pet they still behave the way the masters made them behave!!!

When soviets came here, they did the same thing
When Ukrainians came here, they did the same thing
When Slovaks, and Czechs came here, they did the same thing
When Latvians came here, they did the same thing

And just so you don’t say its western culture..
When chinese came here, Vietnamese came here, etc.. they did the same thing.

Want to know why immigrants succeed more than residential Americans (47% who don’t work)…

Because they behave this way, and that gives them the capital that the other Americans don’t believe they can get. and they work together, because they have not learned how to be Americans, and piss on each other that much. they also know not to get sucked into the politics… (notice how few of those in the know actually go on line to help make things better. they know that its potential SUICIDE in the long run. or haven’t you noticed the progressives looking to make anything in the past something they can use?)

I am hoping that this longer piece was more understandable.
And hoping that I am not one who will respond with kindness to insulting stuff

You address me in a way that is insulting your going to get a response that is insulting
If you don’t realize that you’re insulting, and its normalized, that’s not my problem. Its yours.

Problem is that most people who want to debate, don’t wan to work and learn and get all the facts… so they resort to thinking its clever to cheat and a win by cheating is equal to a win by honest competition. Its not.

I am not an academic, I am an inner city street kid, and so if you want to debate like an academic, I am fine with that. And if you want to pull bladed and go to it, I am fine with that too, I grew up in a social war zone, its no skin off my back, its just a return to a very brutal childhood (which I would rather not).

An academic might be intimidated by such… I am not. it’s a waste of time. and being such I do not respond in kind as you see above. Keep a clean fight, and you wont find out how dirty your opponent can be. Assuming you have the upper hand is assuming he is not capable of returning fire dirtier than you.

Sometimes nice and honest doesn’t mean weak and scared.
Sometimes it means powerful, and compassionate

Being 6’3” and 230lbs I have learned that last point…
And that using other means, means losing, even if you steal the trophy.