Comments on: Jewish voters and Obama

By: Sergey

Sergey — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:43:17 +0000

Those who believe that they can have morality without religion, are delusional. It simply can not be passed to the next generation without religious authority behind it. There is not and never was a culture atheistic for several generations: it would desintegrate much faster. (Or repent and ressurrect.)

By: Richard Aubrey

Richard Aubrey — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 14:18:11 +0000

Tatyana,
So, your bold words notwithstanding, you’d have no problem if the guy showing up with a dozen gross of Javelin reloads said he brought them because Jesus told him to, to preserve Israel for conversion.

By: Tatyana

Tatyana — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 13:56:00 +0000

I forge alliances – and prioritize.

By: Richard Aubrey

Richard Aubrey — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 04:04:11 +0000

Tatyana.
So you would judge Haig’s help during the Yom Kippur War as good, bad, or indifferent, depending on his motivations?
Thing is, whatever the motivation, the result was hundreds upon hundreds of destroyed Egyptian and Syrian tanks.
There’s a point where reality intrudes. Like then.
What do you do about reality?

By: Tatyana

Tatyana — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 01:04:00 +0000

Richard: atheist might (and indeed many are) to be against abortions (if that’s what you mean; why otherwise direct people suddenly speak in wink-wink hints on this issue, is beyond me). But he would not oppose it on religious ground – but out of moral, medical, etc reasons* .

Someone who supports Israel because his Christian tenets instruct him, however, does.

If it doesn’t apply to you, if you are pro-Israel for reasons other than your religion – thank you, that attitude is exactly what I would have preferred, as I said several times already.

*To nib possible tangent in the bud: no, I don’t consider morality to be direct consequence of religious revelations; yes, this is irrelevant to the issue we are discussing.

By: Richard Aubrey

Richard Aubrey — Sun, 18 Apr 2010 15:24:22 +0000

Tatyana,
I am tempted, sometimes, to be juvenile.
As in, “Okay. You’re on your own. No more of my skin in the game.”
It would relieve me of some obligations I don’t really want.
Fortunately, I’m an adult. Not fortunately for me, I mean.
However, now that I find that some Christians are said–not that I’ve heard if from them and I don’t trust what anybody says about Christians–to want to lead Jews to Christ, what do I do, who never thought about the issue?
I am reminded of the insistence that pro-life positions are grounded in religion and are thus disallowed in public discourse due to the separation of church and state.
What if an atheist became pro-life? This is not OT, but an example of a nonsensical argument.

By: Tatyana

Tatyana — Sun, 18 Apr 2010 11:50:57 +0000

R. Aubrey:”hostility” did not appear out of thin air, and it’s not the Jews who are to blame for it.

If my explanations above don’t seem clear to you, read Bob from Virginia -and make your conclusions.

J.Baker: what, you want to turn this into a Battle of Quotations? How Bible-study-worthy of you.

By: Richard Aubrey

Richard Aubrey — Sun, 18 Apr 2010 10:02:03 +0000

Tatyana.
I have favored Israel since I was old enough to know about it.
Three years ago, approximately, I found that some Christians think favoring Israel is their Christian duty.
Now what do I do?
As I said, this hostility makes it difficult.

By: jon baker

jon baker — Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:20:42 +0000

Tatyana-have you ever looked at the actual Founding documents, or are you just going by what somebody told you?

By: jon baker

jon baker — Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:18:33 +0000

Tatyana said “Luckily, you and R. Aubrey are not in charge of Department of State…To think of it, luckily, people like you (and Curtic, and Aubrey, etc) are not in charge of anything important – or this country would be subverted into a clerics-runl prison on steroids – and that was not an intent of the Founding Fathers”

Thats funny- I quoted the founding documents,-written by the founding fathers- and yet you do not address those documents. Instead you make some claim that myself and others who take the founders seriuosly somehow want to set up some kind of theocracy. That could not be further than the truth.

Your anger is with the founders for daring to not follow the French Revolutionary model of total secularization.

We see where that went.