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	Comments on: A country destroyed: Zimbabwe	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: JLawson		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-155195</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JLawson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:30:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-155195</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;South Africa and Zimbabwe (indeed the whole of Africa) will need to be liberated economically from the choking grip of the white capitalist.&quot;

Seems like they&#039;re doing pretty well on that already.  But going from &#039;the choking grip of the white capitalist&#039; to self-inflicted economic strangulation and disaster doesn&#039;t seem like much of an upgrade to me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;South Africa and Zimbabwe (indeed the whole of Africa) will need to be liberated economically from the choking grip of the white capitalist.&#8221;</p>
<p>Seems like they&#8217;re doing pretty well on that already.  But going from &#8216;the choking grip of the white capitalist&#8217; to self-inflicted economic strangulation and disaster doesn&#8217;t seem like much of an upgrade to me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: will		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-155184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[will]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-155184</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dreadful stuff indeed. Rhodesia was once the breadbasket of Africa, now, it&#039;s on it&#039;s way to becoming a desert, figuratively and literally. They took back the farms but cannot somehow make them work. In the Northern reachs of the continent they make do with slaves, Mugabe and his gang can&#039;t even seem to manage that. Not surprised a bit to hear the man pine for the old days. I worked with a fair number of Jamaicans when in N.Y. and heard the same sentiment from some of the elders that had some measure of stability when the Union Jack still flew over Kingston. Jamaica, Haiti, Zimbabwe...I&#039;ll leave well enough alone.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dreadful stuff indeed. Rhodesia was once the breadbasket of Africa, now, it&#8217;s on it&#8217;s way to becoming a desert, figuratively and literally. They took back the farms but cannot somehow make them work. In the Northern reachs of the continent they make do with slaves, Mugabe and his gang can&#8217;t even seem to manage that. Not surprised a bit to hear the man pine for the old days. I worked with a fair number of Jamaicans when in N.Y. and heard the same sentiment from some of the elders that had some measure of stability when the Union Jack still flew over Kingston. Jamaica, Haiti, Zimbabwe&#8230;I&#8217;ll leave well enough alone.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tatterdemalian		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-155126</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tatterdemalian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 22:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-155126</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Rickl: “afrikman” seems to be one of the few people on earth who will defend the vile Mugabe.&quot;

Actually, I know a lot of people who defend Mugabe, on the same grounds they used to defend Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, et al... &quot;The capitalists used their conspiracies and witchcraft to sabotage what would have been beautiful workers&#039; utopias.&quot; Such a marvelously convenient excuse, since the only way to disprove it is to eliminate all democracy from the world (to prevent &quot;capitalist corruption&quot;) and see if socialism can then be used to construct a true paradise. Even if it can&#039;t... well, too bad there&#039;s no other alternative left, right? Might as well keep trying socialism until it succeeds, no matter how many starve in the meantime, because there&#039;s no more free countries to run off to.

It&#039;s like the cargo cultists, who eventually declare that all the seeds for next year&#039;s crops (or even the next generation of children) must be sacrificed to the Cargo Gods before their shiny silver birds drop the magic boxes full of holy treasure. If you don&#039;t do it, you must be forced to do it anyhow or else your holding out will doom us all! And, once everyone makes the sacrifice either willingly or unwillingly, if the Cargo Gods&#039; never come, then the tribe is doomed anyhow, making the desperate people very easy to control, even by the people who doomed them in the first place. No point in seeking revenge when we&#039;re all going to die anyhow; might as well let the priests rule their Hell, on the rapidly disappearing chance the Cargo God will actually come.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Rickl: “afrikman” seems to be one of the few people on earth who will defend the vile Mugabe.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, I know a lot of people who defend Mugabe, on the same grounds they used to defend Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, et al&#8230; &#8220;The capitalists used their conspiracies and witchcraft to sabotage what would have been beautiful workers&#8217; utopias.&#8221; Such a marvelously convenient excuse, since the only way to disprove it is to eliminate all democracy from the world (to prevent &#8220;capitalist corruption&#8221;) and see if socialism can then be used to construct a true paradise. Even if it can&#8217;t&#8230; well, too bad there&#8217;s no other alternative left, right? Might as well keep trying socialism until it succeeds, no matter how many starve in the meantime, because there&#8217;s no more free countries to run off to.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s like the cargo cultists, who eventually declare that all the seeds for next year&#8217;s crops (or even the next generation of children) must be sacrificed to the Cargo Gods before their shiny silver birds drop the magic boxes full of holy treasure. If you don&#8217;t do it, you must be forced to do it anyhow or else your holding out will doom us all! And, once everyone makes the sacrifice either willingly or unwillingly, if the Cargo Gods&#8217; never come, then the tribe is doomed anyhow, making the desperate people very easy to control, even by the people who doomed them in the first place. No point in seeking revenge when we&#8217;re all going to die anyhow; might as well let the priests rule their Hell, on the rapidly disappearing chance the Cargo God will actually come.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-155013</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J. formerly Jimmy J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 01:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-155013</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[rickl,
Yep, Mugabe&#039;s plan is basically what Obama thinks would be nice to do here.  

I keep telling people to look at the history of Chile  under Allende, Peru under Garcia,  Argentina under Peron and a number of other  leftists. It&#039;s the same old plan. Make things more fair with more equal economic outcomes. Has failed everywhere its been tried.  Yet the left keeps thinking that they can make it work. Aaarrrggghhh!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rickl,<br />
Yep, Mugabe&#8217;s plan is basically what Obama thinks would be nice to do here.  </p>
<p>I keep telling people to look at the history of Chile  under Allende, Peru under Garcia,  Argentina under Peron and a number of other  leftists. It&#8217;s the same old plan. Make things more fair with more equal economic outcomes. Has failed everywhere its been tried.  Yet the left keeps thinking that they can make it work. Aaarrrggghhh!!</p>
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		<title>
		By: rickl		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-155004</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rickl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 01:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-155004</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[J.J. formerly Jimmy J.:

Great comment.  Zimbabwe is Ayn Rand&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Atlas Shrugged&lt;/i&gt; come to life.  Now South Africa is going down that same path.

The United States is still a couple of decades away, if present trends continue.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J.J. formerly Jimmy J.:</p>
<p>Great comment.  Zimbabwe is Ayn Rand&#8217;s <i>Atlas Shrugged</i> come to life.  Now South Africa is going down that same path.</p>
<p>The United States is still a couple of decades away, if present trends continue.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-154943</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J. formerly Jimmy J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-154943</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A very good view of Africa is in the book  &quot;DARK STAR SAFARI&quot; by Paul Theroux. He served there in the Peace Corps in the 60s. He decided to go back and revisit the continent. He started in Cairo and traveled native  style (foot, cab, jeepney, truck, traina , and bus) to Capetown. What he found was a continent generally worse off than during his time there  40 years earlier.  The blame seems to lie with corrupt, kleptocratic governments, NGO aid groups, and missionaries.  The governments have kept the people from engaging  in any  meaningful enterprise, and the NGOs and missionaries have tuend a vast segment  of the population into dependents on their largesse. 

When he was in Zimbabwe, there were still a few white farmers hanging on,  but the hand writing was on the wall. Mugabe redistributed the farms seized from productive white farmers to blacks who knew little or nothing of farming. The producers are all gone now and the country, once quite prosperous,  can&#039;t even feed itself.  

I saw the  same thing in Kenya in 1997. Once a very prosperous country it was in a process of slow decay because Moi&#039;s kleptocrats kept people from building any successful enterprises.

Things are starting to go downhill in South Africa, the hope of African renewal is beginning  to decay. This from Shrinkwrapped&#039;s blog:
http://shrinkwrapped.blogs.com/blog/2010/04/western-white-guilt-and-suicidal-moral-masochism.html#comments

&quot;Nelson Mandela won the Nobel Peace Prize because when South Africa gave up apartheid he led the way to a peaceful transition and eschewed revenge in favor of enabling the emergence of a functional multi-ethnic democracy.  This is now failing in South Africa.  Governance in South Africa has been poor and the economy is failing its people.  It is now a nation descending into magical thinking, splitting, and paranoid delusion.&quot; 

It is to weep. Anyone who has been to Africa knows it is a continent with boundless resources and hard working people who, if provided with decent  governmment and free markets, could have a prosperous future.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very good view of Africa is in the book  &#8220;DARK STAR SAFARI&#8221; by Paul Theroux. He served there in the Peace Corps in the 60s. He decided to go back and revisit the continent. He started in Cairo and traveled native  style (foot, cab, jeepney, truck, traina , and bus) to Capetown. What he found was a continent generally worse off than during his time there  40 years earlier.  The blame seems to lie with corrupt, kleptocratic governments, NGO aid groups, and missionaries.  The governments have kept the people from engaging  in any  meaningful enterprise, and the NGOs and missionaries have tuend a vast segment  of the population into dependents on their largesse. </p>
<p>When he was in Zimbabwe, there were still a few white farmers hanging on,  but the hand writing was on the wall. Mugabe redistributed the farms seized from productive white farmers to blacks who knew little or nothing of farming. The producers are all gone now and the country, once quite prosperous,  can&#8217;t even feed itself.  </p>
<p>I saw the  same thing in Kenya in 1997. Once a very prosperous country it was in a process of slow decay because Moi&#8217;s kleptocrats kept people from building any successful enterprises.</p>
<p>Things are starting to go downhill in South Africa, the hope of African renewal is beginning  to decay. This from Shrinkwrapped&#8217;s blog:<br />
<a href="http://shrinkwrapped.blogs.com/blog/2010/04/western-white-guilt-and-suicidal-moral-masochism.html#comments" rel="nofollow ugc">http://shrinkwrapped.blogs.com/blog/2010/04/western-white-guilt-and-suicidal-moral-masochism.html#comments</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Nelson Mandela won the Nobel Peace Prize because when South Africa gave up apartheid he led the way to a peaceful transition and eschewed revenge in favor of enabling the emergence of a functional multi-ethnic democracy.  This is now failing in South Africa.  Governance in South Africa has been poor and the economy is failing its people.  It is now a nation descending into magical thinking, splitting, and paranoid delusion.&#8221; </p>
<p>It is to weep. Anyone who has been to Africa knows it is a continent with boundless resources and hard working people who, if provided with decent  governmment and free markets, could have a prosperous future.</p>
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		By: Occam's Beard		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-154930</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Occam's Beard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 19:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-154930</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;The bloody British had to be fought tooth and nail so Africans can have their human dignity and rights.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And now Africans have had them for the last 40 years. How&#039;s that working out for you?

Oh.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Now the same evil oppressors and their accomplices (US, Aussies, etc) have teamed up to destabilize the African economies, including Zimbabwe to advance their supremacist views, and make the point that Africans cannot rule.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So...we&#039;re to blame for Africa being a basket case? Right. And in your view, without our &quot;destabilization&quot; efforts, Zimbabwe would be an economic powerhouse, is that right? Please try to argue that — we don&#039;t get many laughs around here.

Here&#039;s a reality check: how was Africa doing before colonialism? Even worse than now, right? 

And a bonus question: whom do you blame for, e.g., Rwanda? You&#039;ll have to work hard to blame us for intertribal genocide, but I&#039;m sure you&#039;re up to it.

Bottom line: Africa is and will remain a basket case until and unless Africans own up to their own shortcomings, and stop blaming everyone else for them. You&#039;re running your own tab.

&lt;blockquote&gt;point the finger at poor African leaders who are trying hard to rebuild societies
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I believe that should read &quot; trying hard to &lt;i&gt;build &lt;/i&gt;societies,&quot; not &quot;rebuild.&quot; Not that it matters; poor African leaders are in fact trying hard to become wealthy African leaders, and clearly don&#039;t give a rat&#039;s ass about building their societies.

&lt;blockquote&gt;it is time for a revolution across the African continent . &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Just what the doctor ordered. More political upheaval and uncertainty, well known drivers of economic growth that exert a siren call luring in foreign investment. For the record, against what exactly are you proposing to rebel? Africa is now run (after a fashion) by Africans.

Hank Johnson wants to offer you a tip: make sure you have equal numbers of people on either side of Africa, so it doesn&#039;t capsize.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The bloody British had to be fought tooth and nail so Africans can have their human dignity and rights.</p></blockquote>
<p>And now Africans have had them for the last 40 years. How&#8217;s that working out for you?</p>
<p>Oh.</p>
<blockquote><p>Now the same evil oppressors and their accomplices (US, Aussies, etc) have teamed up to destabilize the African economies, including Zimbabwe to advance their supremacist views, and make the point that Africans cannot rule.</p></blockquote>
<p>So&#8230;we&#8217;re to blame for Africa being a basket case? Right. And in your view, without our &#8220;destabilization&#8221; efforts, Zimbabwe would be an economic powerhouse, is that right? Please try to argue that — we don&#8217;t get many laughs around here.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a reality check: how was Africa doing before colonialism? Even worse than now, right? </p>
<p>And a bonus question: whom do you blame for, e.g., Rwanda? You&#8217;ll have to work hard to blame us for intertribal genocide, but I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re up to it.</p>
<p>Bottom line: Africa is and will remain a basket case until and unless Africans own up to their own shortcomings, and stop blaming everyone else for them. You&#8217;re running your own tab.</p>
<blockquote><p>point the finger at poor African leaders who are trying hard to rebuild societies
</p></blockquote>
<p>I believe that should read &#8221; trying hard to <i>build </i>societies,&#8221; not &#8220;rebuild.&#8221; Not that it matters; poor African leaders are in fact trying hard to become wealthy African leaders, and clearly don&#8217;t give a rat&#8217;s ass about building their societies.</p>
<blockquote><p>it is time for a revolution across the African continent . </p></blockquote>
<p>Just what the doctor ordered. More political upheaval and uncertainty, well known drivers of economic growth that exert a siren call luring in foreign investment. For the record, against what exactly are you proposing to rebel? Africa is now run (after a fashion) by Africans.</p>
<p>Hank Johnson wants to offer you a tip: make sure you have equal numbers of people on either side of Africa, so it doesn&#8217;t capsize.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-154905</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 17:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-154905</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Rickl: &quot;afrikman&quot; seems to be one of the few people on earth who will defend the vile Mugabe.  His accusation of racism against commenters here would be laughable if it were not so vile as well (&quot;afrikman&quot; seems to be commenting from Canada, by the way). And he&#039;s planning to return, like Lenin returning to Russia, to ruin what&#039;s left of Africa.

It is an ominous thing that the reverse racists (for want of a better term) have co-opted accusations of racism in their attempts to immunize some of the world&#039;s worst tyrants against all criticism.  Obama---though not one of the world&#039;s worst tyrants, but certainly one of America&#039;s---is in that vein as well.  It is a transparently pernicious thing to use the fight against the very real problem of racism to try to protect vile tyrants from valid criticism.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rickl: &#8220;afrikman&#8221; seems to be one of the few people on earth who will defend the vile Mugabe.  His accusation of racism against commenters here would be laughable if it were not so vile as well (&#8220;afrikman&#8221; seems to be commenting from Canada, by the way). And he&#8217;s planning to return, like Lenin returning to Russia, to ruin what&#8217;s left of Africa.</p>
<p>It is an ominous thing that the reverse racists (for want of a better term) have co-opted accusations of racism in their attempts to immunize some of the world&#8217;s worst tyrants against all criticism.  Obama&#8212;though not one of the world&#8217;s worst tyrants, but certainly one of America&#8217;s&#8212;is in that vein as well.  It is a transparently pernicious thing to use the fight against the very real problem of racism to try to protect vile tyrants from valid criticism.</p>
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		By: rickl		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-154904</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rickl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 17:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-154904</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oops.  Looks like Neo deleted Afrikman&#039;s last post.  Aw, c&#039;mon.  I was having fun!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops.  Looks like Neo deleted Afrikman&#8217;s last post.  Aw, c&#8217;mon.  I was having fun!</p>
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		<title>
		By: rickl		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-154902</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rickl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 17:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2010/04/09/a-country-destroyed-zimbabwe/#comment-154902</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt; I will not waste anymore time trying to educate you bastards on history.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

Fair enough, and I won&#039;t waste any more time trying to educate you about reality.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite=""><p> I will not waste anymore time trying to educate you bastards on history.</p></blockquote>
<p>Fair enough, and I won&#8217;t waste any more time trying to educate you about reality.</p>
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