Not tired enough.

I have read almost nothing of artfl’s posts, but I did catch some of the answers to him and scanned back into his work for his responses.

Artfl, you have no idea what the American people are like. You have been told this but refuse to accept it because of your limited perspective. You see it as genes + ideas = character.

People who were brought up differently act differently. They have a different culture, different responses, different interpretations. The Anglosphere in general, and America in specific, is different than the rest of the world. You would prefer to think otherwise, and reason that people here must be just like the people you grew up with, and that we are foolish for not seeing that. Somewhere above you have said many of us were wrong at every turn, but the evidence you provide for that is only your interpretation of selected events. A better argument could be made that you have been wrong at every turn, connecting dots according to your own imagination and calling those connections the only possible picture that can be drawn. You are a bright but paranoid person, straight out of the 2nd chapter of Chesterton’s Orthodoxy http://www.ccel.org/ccel/chesterton/orthodoxy.v.html. The evidence for this is that you have displayed no ability to reframe, nor ability to admit 1% error. When challenged, you run in a tighter circle, admitting even less contrary information, acknowledging ever less of the validity of other’s perspective. You grew up in a paranoid place. That world is applicable to many places in space and time, but not this place.

I say this for visitors more than for Artfl, who I know from long professional experience will be incapable of taking this in. I didn’t want folks dropping by to think that we let paranoia go unchallenged. Most of us just don’t read him and have no interest in his CFR Trilateralist fantasies.

Or is this what it looks like – a cumulative string of abject failures by a team of delusionally confident Ivy Leaguers with little or no executive, business, or military experience?

because as i said, they unmask themselves a bit early every time. (which is why they dont win 100%)…i said that long ago. but rather than ask me rational questions like your doing fecetiously to sound smart, you did an end around.

they think they have power, and some end up taking their masks off early, or in company they are relaxed in. this is the time when things can be disrupted for a while, becuase this is the time when people recoil. since they coordinate on a time table, they have to hit their marks as they go. miss too many and they then have to take a while to maneuver into place. ergo the harder they push when everyone thinks they should stop. its a keystone point if they refuse to drop it, and if the keystone dont make it in, or the parts of the stone needed dont, then the arch cant stand. if they had control.. they would not have to play games they play… but if you listen carefully they give their tells.

what then happens is we then convince ourselves that a tell is not a tell. after all, its reasonable to give others the benifit of the doubt, right? (and i keep bringing that up as thats the thing con men use, and sociopaths, and other maladaptive strategies against the good in heart). you see this as a battle between two parties. you dont realize that, its people in both parties that are of the same idea? i explained it, but you were too busy trying to slam me than get it. like a parent who says you can have peas or carrots, you dont realize you still get a vegetable no matter what choice.

of course they are going to lose to republicans.remember my example of feminists for porn, and feminists against porn, all united under one umbrella above the two issues? you think its a dem rep thing, when its a progressive democrat/progressive republican vs democrat/republican thing. you cant get it unless you understand your opponent, and i said, failure to do that, and you wouldnt even know the “wolf in sheeps clothing” next to you… (fabians)

control both side of an issue and you control the whole issue. for a person who belittles me a lot you sure dont get when a person has been dropping hints as to things the size of cinder blocks. the people blocking them in their majority are not republicans… are they? no… its the progressive caucus and progressives (socialists, communists, menshiviks, liberals, call them whatever you want this decade after this attempt they will have a new name anyway), against those who are not.

what is the magic they will pull next election? we will vote to get rid of the DEMS..,and we will vote in a new set of progressives who are under the republican ticket. not only that, but since the reps are the party to hate, guess which side is going to seem to do things? oh… and if it fails, which do you think will walk away with the blame, republicans or progressives?

Is this all some cunning plan and in early November we will wake up to martial law?

no… martial law will become apparant when we realize we have been played and we cant do anything about it. that is, when all these laws COME INTO EFFECT at the same time, with china or others sayin screw it and pulling the debt to ZERO in one month. how many symbols and signs does one need to know that they are yelling we meet at 2012.. that wont be till after chavez has his factories up and they are sure that they can send the problem army people to another country. how do you think they solve the army problem in other countries?

that is, a conflict allows you to separate your forces in any way you want. and so those soldiers your saying wont let it happen, wont be here.

they will be in columbia, afghanistan, maybe iran now that they can launch a emp attack. kind of hard to fight your way from south america, up through the canal, and then counter others in the US when you get here. even harder from afghanistan.

in case you havent noticed, obama broke his promise to stop the war..

Or is this what it looks like – a cumulative string of abject failures by a team of delusionally confident Ivy Leaguers with little or no executive, business, or military experience?

oh yes they are incompetent.. but i never said this was their plan…did i? the only way such incompetents with skeletons can get anywhere is if others are feeding them. i said this long ago when i talked of post turtle.

“You know…. he didn’t get there by himself, he doesn’t belong there, he doesn’t know what to do while he’s up there, and you just want to help the dumb shit get down”

funny… but it has a bigger implication when applied to people not turtles in the back hills.

but dont worry.. you have the technique of debate judo, where you grab their examples and draw them into wild assumptions… and yet refuse to learn history to give a common ground so that they dont use those examples. in this way, ignorance becomes a weapon in social situations. i try to explain what happened in germany, you dont dance, you dont push, you pull it back and go to the extreme of it cant happen here, where are the goosesteppers.

and you seem to win

not only that, you marginalized all the people, not just me, who know history and which history could help you understand how things work.

the nazi ordeal was not being used as a negative to project whats happening here… its being used as a common ground to understand principals of action.

i mean really, dont you think it took great skill to foment in the time of two presidential terms a whole new culture out of a comic book and have everyone dance as the devil played the tune?

to say no, is to know it can happen by accident…to say yes, is to imply there was mechanics behind all the distracting ruffles, flourishes, and distractions… no way out, unless you deny humans are kind of the same all over. not equal, not exactly akin, but generally. which is what this argument does get to. humans somehow become different when they sail across the ocean and immigrate to the US from germany, russia, hungary, ukraine, and all those socialist states. thats why we are socialist, they are so different.

anyway… i tire of this…

So we are not in any disagreement on the fact that there were many people who understood and who warned. My point is that they were not heeded, and the long Gramscian march went on. As for the rest, I agree that knowledge—especially of history—is good. That’s one of the reasons I write this blog. I just am not at all sure knowledge of history is enough to combat that Gramscian march that’s already occurred. But it is important to try.

As for ruthlessness—the examples you use are from the past. I was referring to the people in charge right now, including Obama.

The second step would be to take an inventory of the secondary group such as illiterates, paupers, unemployables, criminals, prostitutes, dope-fiends; classify them in special departments under government medical protection, and segregate them on farms and open spaces as long as necessary for the strengthening and development of moral conduct.

Having corralled this enormous part of our population and placed it on a basis of health instead of punishment, it is safe to say that fifteen or twenty millions of our population would then be organized into soldiers of defense—defending the unborn against their own disabilities.

The third step would be to give special attention to the mothers’ health, to see that women who are suffering from tuberculosis, heart or kidney disease, toxic goitre, gonorrhea, or any disease where the condition of pregnancy disturbs their health are placed under public health nurses to instruct them in practical, scientific methods of contraception in order to safeguard their lives—thus reducing maternal mortality.

The above steps may seem to place emphasis on a health program instead of on tariffs, moratoriums and debts, but I believe that national health is the first essential factor in any program for universal peace.

With the future citizen safeguarded from hereditary taints, with five million mental and moral degenerates segregated, with ten million women and ten million children receiving adequate care, we could then turn our attention to the basic needs for international peace.

There would then be a definite effort to make population increase slowly and at a specified rate, in order to accommodate and adjust increasing numbers to the best social and economic system.

In the meantime we should organize and join an International League of Low Birth Rate Nations to secure and maintain World Peace.

Summary of address before the New History Society, January 17th, New York City

given that a large majority can claim genetic heritage back to the same people.

how so?

given that our progressives gave them the ideas

how so?

but we deny the negro project is a eugenics program despite the founders starting the american eugenics movement

AND supplying the necessary inspiration from american progressives.

so in reality, they were copying us…

then we realized what it was, and sanger had to rename her program… progressivism, like bolshivism becamea bad word, and we completely oppposed the ideology.

then over time, with a new name, they then went about the same ruthless plans.

the difference was that the americans were more subtle… they would do with conniving, scheming, plotting and collusion, what others did openly.

that is, in a bizarre way, the other despots thought that such skulduggery was beneath them and they did their things in the open.

after wwii… this changed… and they changed.

The Germans final solution started twenty-seven years later than the U.S. programs did.

we continued to sterilize people up till the 1980s.

and now obamas czars and others are saying we need a program like chinas forced sterilization.

so have they changed, or have they become more ruthless by loving the fun of tricking people over fighting with them?

Margaret Sanger corresponded with Ernst Rudin

who is he?
Ernst Rudin was director of the foremost German eugenics research institute (Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Genealogy, in Munich, Germany).

dont you think that this history would change the idea of abortion in america?

and how did they sell eugenics?

oh yes… as a womans liberation new right..
and that all that women now have would be lost if they stopped killing their babies, and stopped sexing with strangers without regard.

sure… of course.
but hey, who am i to argue?
[i mean we have been doctoring popiulatino figures byu having an open border!!! our people have exterminated 50 million… we are self removing ourselves, and others who are more easy for progressives to control are being let in]

In an address to the German Society for Rassenhygiene [Race-hygiene] Ernst Rudin, a professor of psychiatry who was one of the organization’s original members and now its head, recalled the early, fruitless days when the racial hygienists had labored in vain to alert the public to special value of the Nordic race as “culture creators” and the danger of “unnatural” attempts to preserve the health of heredity defectives. Now Rassenhygiene [Race-hygiene] was finally receiving the attention it deserved, and Rudin virtually slavered over the man whose efforts produced this change: “The significance of Rassenhygiene did not become evident to all aware Germans until the political activity of Adolf Hitler and only through his work has our 30 year long dream of translating Rassen- hygiene into action finally become a reality.” Terming it a “duty of honor” (Ehrenpflicht) for the society to aid in implementing Hitler’s program, Rudin proclaimed, “We can hardly express our efforts more plainly or appropriately than in the words of the Fuhrer: ‘Whoever is not physically or mentally fit must not pass on his defects to his children. The state must take care that only the fit produce children. Conversely, it must be regarded as reprehensible to withhold healthy children from the state.’ (E. Rudin, “Aufgaben and Ziele der Deutschen Gesellschaft fur Rassenhygiene,” Archiv Fur Rassen- und Gesellschafts- biologie 28 (1934): 228-29)

Three months before the German ‘sterilization law’ was passed, Rudin’s “Eugenic Sterilization: An Urgent Need” article was published in the journal (BCR) Margaret Sanger started and continued to influence until its demise in 1940.

it only died because normal people where aborhed by it.

just as in the south, they abhored racism!!!
so the dems threw picnics in white areas and invited blacks and all had a nice time
and in the black areas, where whites couldnt see or know what was happening, they hunted black republicans down.

[edited for length by neo-neocon]

actually it DID occur..

we just dont know our history..

i remember about a year ago watching film of testimoney, and one of the testimony was a man who was describing how small publishers were selling to americans communist propaganda. and he in turn showed that within that was the comiterm order to take over race groups, feminist groups, and such. about a decade later was the pizzy stuff in england and other stuff here.

what do you think HUAC was about?
the laws (some still on the books) that forbid communism (another reason to change the name).

what happened was that the propaganda worked. lattimore who was a spy wrote a book declaring mccarthy as having his own political system, mccarthyism…

how did that attempt go? mccarthy turned out to be right, and lattimore turned out to be a spy. but our culture thinks what?

and over the years… when someone said a registry system was how the nazi’s, disarmed the people…did we believe those people, or call them names, racists, and gun lovers of murder? well, that was the prevention happening that you didnt see.

you didnt see it because the level of knowlege you had was from the side calling the names. the level of history you had couldnt call out who was busted for not knowing, or injecting fantasy and such in the conversation.

kennedy was an anticommunist… but when good old uncle spoke with the kgb for political advice… what did we do? left him in office until he died, and then thought that the office should go to a copy of him (which it didnt). when it became known that harry dexter white was a communist and that the federal reserve was compromised in form and idea… what did we do? i will tell you what we did.

we all made sure to take the reasonable position and give them benefit of the doubt over and over.

we wanted nice nice in the senate and house beacuse they taught us that the adversarial system was wrong… yeah, wrong cause you cant get big sweeping power grabs with it.

now they are pushing new history curriculum which erases american history before communist/progressivism in the US and starts history in the 1870s. (thats in north carolina) again… tons of people have been fighting it. not all of them are crackpots and loones.

lots of them know the same history i know. the VALID history (or do you think there is a conspiracy in that i gave out the history and glenn beck copied what i said weeks later?)

but reasonable people blamed the cassandras for predictng where we are. they didnt want to blame the people actually doing the acts that made the others sound crazy when they told you!!!!!!!!

transferrence of blame went to the person acting, to the person reporting… the crazier obama, or someone else behaves.

the more funny names they call me here. the more they want less information, the more they want the reality to go away.

and like in companies. there are two ways to do this. you can actually work hard and clean up… (but thats not reasonable).. or you can pretend that its not there, and go after the people who are trying to wake you up early.

guess which one people take.

anyway.. i am at the point that if they call me one more name, push one more bad thing about the truth i am telling, which they can verify
(ever notice no one ever tries to show my facts wrong?), and i will accept an offer from the progressives.

i mean after all, what do you think they are going to do to me once this comes to a head? i would have been better to shut up and never say anything.

If you’re not correct, however, and if we are different in this country, and that what you describe is not the level of ruthlessness involved with the left here, then the next set of elections can begin overturning what we see is an attempt to move this country hard left.

ONLY if we forget the concept of two steps forward one step back. the founding fathers said CONSTANT VIGILANCE . the problem i have is that we have little experience as a people in these things. they ARE more ruthless than i can express. history does a better job, if you know it.

my position is from preponderance of evidence.

HOW TO FIGHT?

easy… our founding fathers said how. not with guns, until guns are needed. not with violence until nothing but violence. remember, if king george conceeded what would have happened? there is a reason they take over information… because when the people know, they can resist by ignoring them. real power does not come from the end of a gun. you only need a gun to take power away from someone else that has it when you dont have the gun. so the way you combat this is to know history!!!!

i was NEVER taken in by any of this…i never let the unreasonable be reasonable.

they know it too…which is why they start with children
and like euthanasia

because they found that once you found ouyt the truth, like the red and blue pills, you cant go back!

neo… can you go back to how you used to be when you didnt know them better? of course not. there are no literature categories for people who found the truth of capitalism, and warned others.. there are a huge number of literature for those who found out the truth about socialism and communusm, and tried to warn everyone.

the number is large and it spans those outside, inside, part of it that left, and more.

That’s basically it. That most of us prefer to believe the latter scenario is not stupid. I happen to still think that, although you may be correct historically, that sort of hardness and ruthlessness is not present in the left in this country.

so you think that after meeting an aborted baby who made it, such people would not throw live babies to die? thats not ruthless enough?
how about having to dismember a live baby as a means of doing the abortion?

“The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.” — Margaret Sanger, letter to Clarence Gamble, Dec. 10,1939

planning to commit genocide and then renaming and relabling the same organization, and placing 4 times the number of them in race neighborhoods isnt ruthless and devious?

is this ruthless?
“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart, The Future – If There Is One – Is Female

“If anyone is prosecuted for filing a false report, then victims of real attacks will be less likely to report them.” — David Angier (Massachusetts District Attorney

(so convicting men on false allegations is ideologically ok.. hows that for ruthless?) and i broiught the feminsts as examples beacuse women are supposed to be the NICER ones.

“If the power of persuasion doesn’t work, we will use the persuasion of power if that’s what is necessary.”

who said that? well the current seiu guy has been saying it… but it was originally Owen F. Bieber in 1984!!! he was with the UAW.

[edited for length by neo-neocon]

JTA responds…
jta.org/news/article/2010/02/03/1010463/jewish-agency-drops-plans-for-st-petersburg-meeting-blames-russian

[it was always planned that they would REVERT as they never removed those who ran the place. just cahnged the labels. checka, vchecka, smersh, kgb, now fsb… it would be like germany being allowed to keep the SS and we all believe that they are not nazi]

“Two weeks ago we were advised for the first time about some outstanding issues regarding the legal status for the Jewish Agency in Russia,” the letter said. “We immediately submitted all the required documentation and have since been waiting for an official response. In the interim we have received numerous unofficial messages but no clear answer. Today we heard via the office of the Israeli Ambassador in Moscow that the Russian Foreign Ministry still maintains that our legal status in Russia is not adequate for convening a meeting of the Board of Governors.”

if you know whats been going on there on the ground.. this would tno be a surprise.

marx was antisemetic. so his followers are and were. (is obama isreal freindly?)

its funny that we can make jokes about the usefulness of rearanging the deck chairs on the titanic and then believing everything was then ok..

but when the communist state who murdered millions does the same thing… we think it represented meaningful and fundemental changes.

they are now realizing that they can never catch up with communism, and they cant deal hacving capitalism… (a recent article).. and so, russian imperialism is back..

dont think so?

then ask them to give back parts of georgia they took..

imperialists dont give back the land after they liberate… a nuanced point that we miss. which is why we think the US is imperialist (which is why we kept japan, germany, france, north africa, belgium, spain, and such… ) and russia is not (which is why they gave back latvia, estonia, lituania, poland, slovakia, czech republic, hungary, ukraine, islands off japan after wwii, and many other places)

inversions..

we are the enemy so the enemy is our friend.

duh