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	Comments on: Question about health care reform	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:47:20 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: njcommuter		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137790</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[njcommuter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137790</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m preaching to the choir, but to those who have long memories one can make the argument that &quot;health care reform&quot; bears the same relationship to human health that &quot;urban renewal&quot; bore to the health of the inner cities: destruction, misery, and damage to society and civilization.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m preaching to the choir, but to those who have long memories one can make the argument that &#8220;health care reform&#8221; bears the same relationship to human health that &#8220;urban renewal&#8221; bore to the health of the inner cities: destruction, misery, and damage to society and civilization.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Baklava		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137719</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baklava]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137719</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Makes sense Neo.

I can still see them trotting people up on stage who would &#039;receive&#039; benefits shortly in the future - saying, &quot;Republicans would take health care away from this family&quot;.

It&#039;s not easy to gauge what Repub leaders would do. Olympia Snowe wouldn&#039;t write such a repeal but would she support it.

Obviously Obama would veto such a reform and it would be up to Republicans to stick together and not fund people getting benefits. I don&#039;t see it happening.

I&#039;m back to having to stop this now. :(]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Makes sense Neo.</p>
<p>I can still see them trotting people up on stage who would &#8216;receive&#8217; benefits shortly in the future &#8211; saying, &#8220;Republicans would take health care away from this family&#8221;.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not easy to gauge what Repub leaders would do. Olympia Snowe wouldn&#8217;t write such a repeal but would she support it.</p>
<p>Obviously Obama would veto such a reform and it would be up to Republicans to stick together and not fund people getting benefits. I don&#8217;t see it happening.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m back to having to stop this now. 🙁</p>
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		<title>
		By: Scottie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137695</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scottie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137695</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[neo-neocon,

There is yet another element that I didn&#039;t see in my quick perusal of the comments this morning as being addressed.

My understanding is every citizen would still be required to purchase health care.

Talk about the mother of all unfunded mandates!

That is SERIOUSLY going to tick off a lot of voters - and has been pointed out by others already the costs kick in long before any benefits do.

Sure, there will I believe be some sort of federal assistance program for those not able to afford health insurance, but at the same time it seems there&#039;s a huge bubble of middle and upper-middle class that are going to get creamed in this mess - plus when was the last time anyone here actually tried to get money out of the federal government for anything other than a tax refund?

Most of the folks who would qualify for such assistance aren&#039;t going to have the knowledge or connections or paperwork to go through the process properly to get that assistance.

Then of course there is the inclination to deliberately make the process difficult as this will save the feds money when it&#039;s clear they have to cut costs somewhere.

The Democrat leadership may have to backtrack out of sheer survival at some point, Obama be damned in the process....

There could be quite substantial reasons for a lot of Democrats to go along in 2011 with repealing this boondoggle.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>neo-neocon,</p>
<p>There is yet another element that I didn&#8217;t see in my quick perusal of the comments this morning as being addressed.</p>
<p>My understanding is every citizen would still be required to purchase health care.</p>
<p>Talk about the mother of all unfunded mandates!</p>
<p>That is SERIOUSLY going to tick off a lot of voters &#8211; and has been pointed out by others already the costs kick in long before any benefits do.</p>
<p>Sure, there will I believe be some sort of federal assistance program for those not able to afford health insurance, but at the same time it seems there&#8217;s a huge bubble of middle and upper-middle class that are going to get creamed in this mess &#8211; plus when was the last time anyone here actually tried to get money out of the federal government for anything other than a tax refund?</p>
<p>Most of the folks who would qualify for such assistance aren&#8217;t going to have the knowledge or connections or paperwork to go through the process properly to get that assistance.</p>
<p>Then of course there is the inclination to deliberately make the process difficult as this will save the feds money when it&#8217;s clear they have to cut costs somewhere.</p>
<p>The Democrat leadership may have to backtrack out of sheer survival at some point, Obama be damned in the process&#8230;.</p>
<p>There could be quite substantial reasons for a lot of Democrats to go along in 2011 with repealing this boondoggle.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137685</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 05:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137685</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Baklava and others: my question was also predicted on the idea that the bulk of the supposed benefits are not due to kick in until after 2012.  So if repeal and/or de-funding occurred before that, it would be giving up benefits that people haven&#039;t yet grown accustomed to getting---although they will have grown accustomed to paying for them.  The payments kick in before the benefits, which might make these particular entitlements easier to repeal.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baklava and others: my question was also predicted on the idea that the bulk of the supposed benefits are not due to kick in until after 2012.  So if repeal and/or de-funding occurred before that, it would be giving up benefits that people haven&#8217;t yet grown accustomed to getting&#8212;although they will have grown accustomed to paying for them.  The payments kick in before the benefits, which might make these particular entitlements easier to repeal.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Baklava		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137675</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baklava]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137675</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Obama calls out Howard Dean by the way. :)

You are either on Obama&#039;s bus - or under the bus.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama calls out Howard Dean by the way. 🙂</p>
<p>You are either on Obama&#8217;s bus &#8211; or under the bus.</p>
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		<title>
		By: curt cowley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137673</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[curt cowley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137673</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Edit (don&#039;t type in the dark-just doing my bit to lower my carbon footprint)

because medical “services” will not be fully in place until 2013, people will not have the opportunity to become addicted. The pusher is going to start taking the addicts money years before he will give the addict his “fix”. Might work to Republicans favor.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edit (don&#8217;t type in the dark-just doing my bit to lower my carbon footprint)</p>
<p>because medical “services” will not be fully in place until 2013, people will not have the opportunity to become addicted. The pusher is going to start taking the addicts money years before he will give the addict his “fix”. Might work to Republicans favor.</p>
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		<title>
		By: curt cowley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137672</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[curt cowley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137672</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think that the Republicans will be in a stronger position to kill this thing (if it passes) in 2010.   I agree with the other comments that say the Democrats will take a thrashing next November.  Republicans may very well take the House and will probably gain enough in the Senate to take away the fillibuster proof majority.  I   do disagree a bit with the idea that &quot;New entitlements do tend to generate entrenched interest groups around them, and become harder to eradicate with each passing year&quot; as askmom says.  Because taxes are going to start immediately, and medical &quot;services&quot; will not be fully in place until 2013, people will not had the opportunity to become addicted.  The pusher is going to taking the addicts money years before he will the addict his &quot;fix&quot;.  Might work to Republicans favor.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the Republicans will be in a stronger position to kill this thing (if it passes) in 2010.   I agree with the other comments that say the Democrats will take a thrashing next November.  Republicans may very well take the House and will probably gain enough in the Senate to take away the fillibuster proof majority.  I   do disagree a bit with the idea that &#8220;New entitlements do tend to generate entrenched interest groups around them, and become harder to eradicate with each passing year&#8221; as askmom says.  Because taxes are going to start immediately, and medical &#8220;services&#8221; will not be fully in place until 2013, people will not had the opportunity to become addicted.  The pusher is going to taking the addicts money years before he will the addict his &#8220;fix&#8221;.  Might work to Republicans favor.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Baklava		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137661</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baklava]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 02:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137661</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neo,

Sadly, once the entitlement is started, it is extremely difficult to have anyone support repealing it.

Reforms of Medicare in 1995 had the PRESS and DEMOCRATS making accusations of Republicans cutting medicare of $270 billion yet they were actually increasing Medicare by 7% per year.

Things are different now that talk radio has the addition of the Internet. I&#039;m not sure the Democrats and Press could get away with what they did.

The point is - even if unpopular and not the best system - systems set up people with entitlements that if ripped away will have a crowd of people playing victim and &quot;not knowing what to do&quot;. 

As in:
What will I do without my Social Security
What will I do without my Health care - etc.

Even if the goal of the Republicans is to get them a better retirement and better system for health care - the entitlement is there.

There will not be support for repeal. The republicans won&#039;t do that.

We have to STOP it before implementation.

--------------------
To answer your question though... Yes - Republicans can just spend less for these programs but they will have to show HOW and the press and Democrats will cut their throats figuratively.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo,</p>
<p>Sadly, once the entitlement is started, it is extremely difficult to have anyone support repealing it.</p>
<p>Reforms of Medicare in 1995 had the PRESS and DEMOCRATS making accusations of Republicans cutting medicare of $270 billion yet they were actually increasing Medicare by 7% per year.</p>
<p>Things are different now that talk radio has the addition of the Internet. I&#8217;m not sure the Democrats and Press could get away with what they did.</p>
<p>The point is &#8211; even if unpopular and not the best system &#8211; systems set up people with entitlements that if ripped away will have a crowd of people playing victim and &#8220;not knowing what to do&#8221;. </p>
<p>As in:<br />
What will I do without my Social Security<br />
What will I do without my Health care &#8211; etc.</p>
<p>Even if the goal of the Republicans is to get them a better retirement and better system for health care &#8211; the entitlement is there.</p>
<p>There will not be support for repeal. The republicans won&#8217;t do that.</p>
<p>We have to STOP it before implementation.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
To answer your question though&#8230; Yes &#8211; Republicans can just spend less for these programs but they will have to show HOW and the press and Democrats will cut their throats figuratively.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jhankey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137648</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jhankey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 01:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137648</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I cannot add anything to the political side of this discussion. I do believe that the morale part of the equation is as important. We must fight the temptation of pessimism at all times and in all ways. This can be done, a way will be found. Can you imagine the outlook of people just before the Revolution or the Civil War. If there was a time to sucumb to pessimism it was then, but they persevered and a way was found.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot add anything to the political side of this discussion. I do believe that the morale part of the equation is as important. We must fight the temptation of pessimism at all times and in all ways. This can be done, a way will be found. Can you imagine the outlook of people just before the Revolution or the Civil War. If there was a time to sucumb to pessimism it was then, but they persevered and a way was found.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Alex Bensky		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137643</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex Bensky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 00:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/17/question-about-health-care-reform/#comment-137643</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Once this system is installed, deleting it is going to be very difficult and very expensive. I had wondered why the administration didn&#039;t try the incremental approach--for example allowing small business to pool their insurance, some sort of tort reform (I do not mean tort immunity), allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines. If the goal were truly to reform the system it seems obvious that they would have wanted to start smaller and build.

Alas, the goal is obviously to aggrandize as much power as possible in their hands. This is why the bill should be defeated, not modified.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once this system is installed, deleting it is going to be very difficult and very expensive. I had wondered why the administration didn&#8217;t try the incremental approach&#8211;for example allowing small business to pool their insurance, some sort of tort reform (I do not mean tort immunity), allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines. If the goal were truly to reform the system it seems obvious that they would have wanted to start smaller and build.</p>
<p>Alas, the goal is obviously to aggrandize as much power as possible in their hands. This is why the bill should be defeated, not modified.</p>
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