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	<title>
	Comments on: Palin and the birthers: &#8220;it&#8217;s a fair question&#8221;	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 21:42:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: smrstrauss		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136418</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[smrstrauss]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 21:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136418</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Re: &quot;The same media that does not care about the birth certificate.&quot;

Some newspapers that are considered part of the MSM do care about the birth certificate. This is what the Wall Street Journal said about it: 

&quot;Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: &#8220;The same media that does not care about the birth certificate.&#8221;</p>
<p>Some newspapers that are considered part of the MSM do care about the birth certificate. This is what the Wall Street Journal said about it: </p>
<p>&#8220;Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: grackle		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136356</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[grackle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 16:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136356</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There are a set of stated and unstated assumptions by pro-Birthers that don’t seem to be based in reality:

That Obama has devoted a lot of time, effort and/or money toward the prevention of the release of the Hawaiian records.

I see this opinion asserted all the time. I’ve never seen it substantiated. I believe it to be a myth, one of those memes that are repeated over and over by those susceptible to mere allegation(as opposed to documented fact) until they come to believe it.  

The corollary assumption to the example above is that Obama has to actively fight to prevent the Hawaiian records from being released. No, to the contrary, all he has to do is nothing — and the records will not be released.
 
That Obama is somehow injuring his reputation with the public at large or creating doubt in a significant portion of the public by not directing Hawaii to release his records. Here too, substantiation is never offered. 

I would have to see results from a reputable pollster asking pertinent questions about the Birther issue before I would believe that Obama is creating doubt or is hurt by it. This is not to say that &lt;i&gt;other&lt;/i&gt;, legitimate issues, such as national healthcare, government spending, the national debt, a weak foreign policy, etc., aren’t taking their toll on Obama’s popularity. 

The Birther issue is that jewel all politicians love to have handed to them — a political ‘tar baby’ for opponents to keep sticking to. Rather than hurting Obama it only serves to damage the credibility of his opposition. I take solace in the fact that it is a minor issue and, so far, seems to give only a slight or no advantage to Obama — certainly not enough to stop his slide downward in the polls.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a set of stated and unstated assumptions by pro-Birthers that don’t seem to be based in reality:</p>
<p>That Obama has devoted a lot of time, effort and/or money toward the prevention of the release of the Hawaiian records.</p>
<p>I see this opinion asserted all the time. I’ve never seen it substantiated. I believe it to be a myth, one of those memes that are repeated over and over by those susceptible to mere allegation(as opposed to documented fact) until they come to believe it.  </p>
<p>The corollary assumption to the example above is that Obama has to actively fight to prevent the Hawaiian records from being released. No, to the contrary, all he has to do is nothing — and the records will not be released.</p>
<p>That Obama is somehow injuring his reputation with the public at large or creating doubt in a significant portion of the public by not directing Hawaii to release his records. Here too, substantiation is never offered. </p>
<p>I would have to see results from a reputable pollster asking pertinent questions about the Birther issue before I would believe that Obama is creating doubt or is hurt by it. This is not to say that <i>other</i>, legitimate issues, such as national healthcare, government spending, the national debt, a weak foreign policy, etc., aren’t taking their toll on Obama’s popularity. </p>
<p>The Birther issue is that jewel all politicians love to have handed to them — a political ‘tar baby’ for opponents to keep sticking to. Rather than hurting Obama it only serves to damage the credibility of his opposition. I take solace in the fact that it is a minor issue and, so far, seems to give only a slight or no advantage to Obama — certainly not enough to stop his slide downward in the polls.</p>
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		<title>
		By: will		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136328</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[will]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 10:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136328</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Back when I worked in human services, there was an old joke that circulated about the office now and again. It went like this:

Q- &quot;What&#039;s the definition of confusion?&quot;

A- &quot;Father&#039;s Day in Roxbury&quot;

In Obama&#039;s community (or adopted community) details such as a birth certificate, actual names, dates of birth etc. are secrets that are held in the tightest regard. It&#039;s not unusual at all for an individual to be known by three different names. You&#039;ve got the name you give to the police, the name you use in the street, and what you&#039;re called at the house. Obfuscation is the rule, pressing for details will get you a dirty look, or much worse.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back when I worked in human services, there was an old joke that circulated about the office now and again. It went like this:</p>
<p>Q- &#8220;What&#8217;s the definition of confusion?&#8221;</p>
<p>A- &#8220;Father&#8217;s Day in Roxbury&#8221;</p>
<p>In Obama&#8217;s community (or adopted community) details such as a birth certificate, actual names, dates of birth etc. are secrets that are held in the tightest regard. It&#8217;s not unusual at all for an individual to be known by three different names. You&#8217;ve got the name you give to the police, the name you use in the street, and what you&#8217;re called at the house. Obfuscation is the rule, pressing for details will get you a dirty look, or much worse.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jon baker		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136306</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jon baker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 04:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136306</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[These things only matter if you are a Republican canidate.   If you are Democrat, you don&#039;t need no stinkin transparency. 

If you are Al Gore you can live in a mansion, own a yacht, fly all over the world in a jet- all the while lecturing people that they need to live more simply, and the msm doesn&#039;t call you on it.

The same media that does not care about the birth certificate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These things only matter if you are a Republican canidate.   If you are Democrat, you don&#8217;t need no stinkin transparency. </p>
<p>If you are Al Gore you can live in a mansion, own a yacht, fly all over the world in a jet- all the while lecturing people that they need to live more simply, and the msm doesn&#8217;t call you on it.</p>
<p>The same media that does not care about the birth certificate.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Scottie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136273</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scottie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 21:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136273</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[smrstrauss said:

&quot;The McCain campaign checked out all the allegations, and found there was nothing to any of them.&quot;

Oh please, McCain looked like he did practically everything he could to lose. I have never heard that his people looked into the birth certificate issue.

It was just...ah...*beneath* McCain to do so, apparently.

The only air that came into McCain&#039;s campaign was when Palin came onto the ticket - which I guess explains why McCain&#039;s staffers have done everything they could to diminish her both during the election and since.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>smrstrauss said:</p>
<p>&#8220;The McCain campaign checked out all the allegations, and found there was nothing to any of them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh please, McCain looked like he did practically everything he could to lose. I have never heard that his people looked into the birth certificate issue.</p>
<p>It was just&#8230;ah&#8230;*beneath* McCain to do so, apparently.</p>
<p>The only air that came into McCain&#8217;s campaign was when Palin came onto the ticket &#8211; which I guess explains why McCain&#8217;s staffers have done everything they could to diminish her both during the election and since.</p>
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		<title>
		By: smrstrauss		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136262</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[smrstrauss]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136262</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Re: &quot;The Constitution does not say who should verify that all candidates are such natural born citizens...&quot;

The obvious candidates are (1) the voters; (2) the electors of the electoral college; (3) the members of Congress who confirmed the election.

All these points were raised with all three of these groups, and they elected or approved the election of Obama. It is interesting to note that in past elections it has been fairly frequent that one or two electors did not vote the way that the were supposed to. But in this case all 365 electoral votes that Obama won went the way that was decided on Nov. 4.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: &#8220;The Constitution does not say who should verify that all candidates are such natural born citizens&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>The obvious candidates are (1) the voters; (2) the electors of the electoral college; (3) the members of Congress who confirmed the election.</p>
<p>All these points were raised with all three of these groups, and they elected or approved the election of Obama. It is interesting to note that in past elections it has been fairly frequent that one or two electors did not vote the way that the were supposed to. But in this case all 365 electoral votes that Obama won went the way that was decided on Nov. 4.</p>
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		<title>
		By: smrstrauss		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136260</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[smrstrauss]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136260</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Re: &quot;So, it would seem like there is a major and important question about Obama’s citizenship status to be answered here.&quot;

There is no question whatsoever. First, no president has ever proven that he was a natural born citizen. In this case some people have manufactured the allegation that he was born in Kenya. Only if he were born in Kenya would any of this crap about the birth certificate mean anything, and it is as likely that he was born on the moon as in Kenya. His  Kenyan grandmother never said that he was born in Kenya. She said that he was born in Hawaii--and it is on tape for anyone to hear. (Listen to the complete tape, until after the question &quot;Whereabouts was he born?&quot; http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-)

As the National Review points out, it is crazy to believe the Kenya myth. A child born in Kenya requires a US visa or a change to his mother&#039;s passport while she was in Kenya to allow him to get to the USA. If such a thing had happened, there would be records of it, which would have been found by now.

The McCain campaign checked out all the allegations, and found there was nothing to any of them.

Then there is the official birth certificate of Hawaii, the facts on which the officials in Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: &#8220;So, it would seem like there is a major and important question about Obama’s citizenship status to be answered here.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is no question whatsoever. First, no president has ever proven that he was a natural born citizen. In this case some people have manufactured the allegation that he was born in Kenya. Only if he were born in Kenya would any of this crap about the birth certificate mean anything, and it is as likely that he was born on the moon as in Kenya. His  Kenyan grandmother never said that he was born in Kenya. She said that he was born in Hawaii&#8211;and it is on tape for anyone to hear. (Listen to the complete tape, until after the question &#8220;Whereabouts was he born?&#8221; <a href="http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-</a>)</p>
<p>As the National Review points out, it is crazy to believe the Kenya myth. A child born in Kenya requires a US visa or a change to his mother&#8217;s passport while she was in Kenya to allow him to get to the USA. If such a thing had happened, there would be records of it, which would have been found by now.</p>
<p>The McCain campaign checked out all the allegations, and found there was nothing to any of them.</p>
<p>Then there is the official birth certificate of Hawaii, the facts on which the officials in Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed.</p>
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		<title>
		By: RagnarD		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136211</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RagnarD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 06:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136211</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neo said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The issue, ....., is transparency; .....&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As I remember The Won said his would be the most transparent admin yet. Did not quite turn out that way did it? The same for all of his records, college etc. We all made a &#039;Gentlemans &quot;C&quot;&#039; here and there, I would bet.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo said:</p>
<blockquote><p>The issue, &#8230;.., is transparency; &#8230;..</p></blockquote>
<p>As I remember The Won said his would be the most transparent admin yet. Did not quite turn out that way did it? The same for all of his records, college etc. We all made a &#8216;Gentlemans &#8220;C&#8221;&#8216; here and there, I would bet.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wolla Dalbo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136192</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wolla Dalbo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 03:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136192</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A link to an article that includes purported images of two different documents, apparently signed within minutes of each other by Pelosi, one of which includes the certification that Obama and Biden “are legally qualified to serve under the provisions of the United States Constitution,” and another in which this language is now missing; this article asserts that it was this second document, the one minus the “legally qualified to serve” language, that was sent to all the States certifying Obama, see (http://bidenobama.blogspot.com/2009/09/what-does-pelosi-know-about-obamas.html)

If genuine, these documents signed by Pelosi, like Hawaiian officials very careful statements that they had viewed, and say that they do have Obama’s birth record in their custody as prescribed by law, both seem to me to be anticipatory efforts to arrange things so that—if, somehow, the shit hits the fan—they both have some way to deny that they actually certified that Obama was, in one case, born in Hawaii, and in the other case, a “natural born citizen” who met the Constitution’s requirement.

As I point out above, the courts can also argue that, since none of the plaintiffs could prove that they had the “standing” to sue, the courts were not negligent in never actually getting to the issue of Obama’s citizenship status. I believe another anticipatory action was Senator Obama’s very uncharacteristic and interesting co-sponsorship of S. Res 511, the “sense of the Senate Resolution” that gave the Senate’s opinion that, even though Senator McCain was born in the Panama Canal, i.e. technically “born overseas,” Senator McCain was a “natural born citizen” and eligible to both run for and become President.

As Obama’s policies and he become more and more unpopular—a Democratic controlled Congress not being willing to consider Impeachment—look for all sorts of people to clamor and look for some other way to remove Obama from office, and when things get to this state, whether or not Obama was a legitimate candidate for President, who met the Constitution’s “natural born citizenship requirement” may well be a question of supreme importance to many citizens that requires the most searching and scrupulous investigation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A link to an article that includes purported images of two different documents, apparently signed within minutes of each other by Pelosi, one of which includes the certification that Obama and Biden “are legally qualified to serve under the provisions of the United States Constitution,” and another in which this language is now missing; this article asserts that it was this second document, the one minus the “legally qualified to serve” language, that was sent to all the States certifying Obama, see (<a href="http://bidenobama.blogspot.com/2009/09/what-does-pelosi-know-about-obamas.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://bidenobama.blogspot.com/2009/09/what-does-pelosi-know-about-obamas.html</a>)</p>
<p>If genuine, these documents signed by Pelosi, like Hawaiian officials very careful statements that they had viewed, and say that they do have Obama’s birth record in their custody as prescribed by law, both seem to me to be anticipatory efforts to arrange things so that—if, somehow, the shit hits the fan—they both have some way to deny that they actually certified that Obama was, in one case, born in Hawaii, and in the other case, a “natural born citizen” who met the Constitution’s requirement.</p>
<p>As I point out above, the courts can also argue that, since none of the plaintiffs could prove that they had the “standing” to sue, the courts were not negligent in never actually getting to the issue of Obama’s citizenship status. I believe another anticipatory action was Senator Obama’s very uncharacteristic and interesting co-sponsorship of S. Res 511, the “sense of the Senate Resolution” that gave the Senate’s opinion that, even though Senator McCain was born in the Panama Canal, i.e. technically “born overseas,” Senator McCain was a “natural born citizen” and eligible to both run for and become President.</p>
<p>As Obama’s policies and he become more and more unpopular—a Democratic controlled Congress not being willing to consider Impeachment—look for all sorts of people to clamor and look for some other way to remove Obama from office, and when things get to this state, whether or not Obama was a legitimate candidate for President, who met the Constitution’s “natural born citizenship requirement” may well be a question of supreme importance to many citizens that requires the most searching and scrupulous investigation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Scottie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scottie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 02:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/04/palin-and-the-birthers-its-a-fair-question/#comment-136184</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Right off the bat, I&#039;m going to say that simply asking the question does not require one to believe he was born in Hawaii or in Anarctica.

It is a valid question, as I&#039;ll show in a moment, and it is a question he&#039;s chosen to answer ineffectively or dodge entirely.

Whether $1 or $1 million - Obama and his minions have been engaged in legal activity fighting against release of any pertinent birth documents that the state of Hawaii may hold.

Why fight such a disclosure?

Unlike some, I don&#039;t give Obama credit for any Rovian like strategy to make his political opposition look bad.

(As a matter of fact, I don&#039;t think Rove was all that brilliant either, but that&#039;s another subject.)

Obama&#039;s looking like such an amature at the moment that I think any such Machiavellian moves are well beyond his capabilities.

As with the fraudulant AGW &quot;scientists&quot;, much of Obama&#039;s success can be traced to a media that want&#039;s to portray a certain angle that furthers their own agenda.

As for the document he provided, it is of little use. 

Even Hawaii won&#039;t accept that document for various uses/reasons - and they issued the damn thing.

On the other hand, there are - or at least are supposed to be - relevant documents on file with the state of Hawaii regarding his birth.

Legally, Obama need only request they release the information, and Hawaii will release it.

Obama, to date, has elected instead to fight through the court system the release of any documents.

Again, why?

When John McCain was a candidate and his own birth circumstances were raised as an issue (by democrats of all people - what hypocrits!), he was forthcoming with the pertinent documentation.

So, McCain considered it a valid issue and took steps to address it - steps which if he had won would have pre-empted such an issue from following his administration like a rotting albatross.

Obama, on the other hand, chose to leave it a lingering doubt.

Doubt is not something a nation should have about it&#039;s leadership.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right off the bat, I&#8217;m going to say that simply asking the question does not require one to believe he was born in Hawaii or in Anarctica.</p>
<p>It is a valid question, as I&#8217;ll show in a moment, and it is a question he&#8217;s chosen to answer ineffectively or dodge entirely.</p>
<p>Whether $1 or $1 million &#8211; Obama and his minions have been engaged in legal activity fighting against release of any pertinent birth documents that the state of Hawaii may hold.</p>
<p>Why fight such a disclosure?</p>
<p>Unlike some, I don&#8217;t give Obama credit for any Rovian like strategy to make his political opposition look bad.</p>
<p>(As a matter of fact, I don&#8217;t think Rove was all that brilliant either, but that&#8217;s another subject.)</p>
<p>Obama&#8217;s looking like such an amature at the moment that I think any such Machiavellian moves are well beyond his capabilities.</p>
<p>As with the fraudulant AGW &#8220;scientists&#8221;, much of Obama&#8217;s success can be traced to a media that want&#8217;s to portray a certain angle that furthers their own agenda.</p>
<p>As for the document he provided, it is of little use. </p>
<p>Even Hawaii won&#8217;t accept that document for various uses/reasons &#8211; and they issued the damn thing.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there are &#8211; or at least are supposed to be &#8211; relevant documents on file with the state of Hawaii regarding his birth.</p>
<p>Legally, Obama need only request they release the information, and Hawaii will release it.</p>
<p>Obama, to date, has elected instead to fight through the court system the release of any documents.</p>
<p>Again, why?</p>
<p>When John McCain was a candidate and his own birth circumstances were raised as an issue (by democrats of all people &#8211; what hypocrits!), he was forthcoming with the pertinent documentation.</p>
<p>So, McCain considered it a valid issue and took steps to address it &#8211; steps which if he had won would have pre-empted such an issue from following his administration like a rotting albatross.</p>
<p>Obama, on the other hand, chose to leave it a lingering doubt.</p>
<p>Doubt is not something a nation should have about it&#8217;s leadership.</p>
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