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	Comments on: Regrets of the Greatest Generation	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:19:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Helen		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135825</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Helen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135825</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neo,  a rather belated reply: of course it is possible to regret what you have done when you see what it leads to. It&#039;s just I do not think that is what we are seeing here. (Incidentally, we never call them the greatest generation.) It is all somebody else&#039;s fault and, anyway, things were better when we were young. They weren&#039;t. But they were younger.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo,  a rather belated reply: of course it is possible to regret what you have done when you see what it leads to. It&#8217;s just I do not think that is what we are seeing here. (Incidentally, we never call them the greatest generation.) It is all somebody else&#8217;s fault and, anyway, things were better when we were young. They weren&#8217;t. But they were younger.</p>
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		<title>
		By: kungfu		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135778</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kungfu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135778</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think a British friend of mine put it perfectly: The Empire Strikes Back.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a British friend of mine put it perfectly: The Empire Strikes Back.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Artfldgr		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135776</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Artfldgr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135776</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;for people able to feel and criticize but no longer able to act.&lt;/i&gt;

the &quot;reasonable&quot;...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>for people able to feel and criticize but no longer able to act.</i></p>
<p>the &#8220;reasonable&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: will		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135768</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[will]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 18:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135768</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Whew, if the above was a bit spicy for you, do yourself a favor and stay the hell off the BNP webboards/chats...oi!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whew, if the above was a bit spicy for you, do yourself a favor and stay the hell off the BNP webboards/chats&#8230;oi!</p>
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		<title>
		By: LSQ		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135765</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LSQ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 18:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135765</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[People always throw around the scary &quot;assimilation&quot; word like it means brainwashing or something. In the US, I&#039;ve always understood it to basically mean:

1) Learn the language.
2) Support yourself.
3) Obey the law.

Is it really expected to be any different in the UK or other western democracies?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People always throw around the scary &#8220;assimilation&#8221; word like it means brainwashing or something. In the US, I&#8217;ve always understood it to basically mean:</p>
<p>1) Learn the language.<br />
2) Support yourself.<br />
3) Obey the law.</p>
<p>Is it really expected to be any different in the UK or other western democracies?</p>
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		<title>
		By: southernjames		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135728</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[southernjames]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135728</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[MY modern day version of Sir Charles: 

&quot;So you say it is your accepted, established and morally proper cultural custom for a Father to be authorized to discipline his daughter by severely beating her with a stick, to the point of breaking the bones in her face, should she bring &quot;dishonor&quot; upon your family, by say - being seen holding hands with a Jewish boy.  Or for leaving the house while not fully covered head to toe in order to hide all of her skin.&quot;

Very well.  You are residing, volunarily mind you - (and be sure to notice that our borders are not closed for anyone wishing to leave) - in our country.

And we too have a custom.   We arrest men who commit what we refer to here as &quot;domestic violence,&quot; and we charge them with what we call a &quot;felony,&quot;  of &quot;assault with a deadly weapon&quot;, and  &quot;aggravated battery.&quot;     If convicted, you will reside for several years in what we call in our culture, a &quot;penitentary.&quot;   If you happen to murder her in the course of upholding your &quot;family honor&quot; you will spend the rest of your life in said &quot;penitentary.&quot;  Protests from your local Iman, nothwithstanding. 

So.  You may follow your custom.  And then we shall follow ours.&quot;

THAT firm, line in the cultural sand, attitude, is what is being lost, in Great Britain.     To bemoan its loss is what is labeled as &quot;xenophobic&quot; and &quot;racist.&quot;   

Shut up and pretend Sharia is not growing and expanding with each and every year.  Or we&#039;ll shame you into shutting up by calling you a racist. 

You know where you can stick those labels.    Hint: The sun doesn&#039;t shine there.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MY modern day version of Sir Charles: </p>
<p>&#8220;So you say it is your accepted, established and morally proper cultural custom for a Father to be authorized to discipline his daughter by severely beating her with a stick, to the point of breaking the bones in her face, should she bring &#8220;dishonor&#8221; upon your family, by say &#8211; being seen holding hands with a Jewish boy.  Or for leaving the house while not fully covered head to toe in order to hide all of her skin.&#8221;</p>
<p>Very well.  You are residing, volunarily mind you &#8211; (and be sure to notice that our borders are not closed for anyone wishing to leave) &#8211; in our country.</p>
<p>And we too have a custom.   We arrest men who commit what we refer to here as &#8220;domestic violence,&#8221; and we charge them with what we call a &#8220;felony,&#8221;  of &#8220;assault with a deadly weapon&#8221;, and  &#8220;aggravated battery.&#8221;     If convicted, you will reside for several years in what we call in our culture, a &#8220;penitentary.&#8221;   If you happen to murder her in the course of upholding your &#8220;family honor&#8221; you will spend the rest of your life in said &#8220;penitentary.&#8221;  Protests from your local Iman, nothwithstanding. </p>
<p>So.  You may follow your custom.  And then we shall follow ours.&#8221;</p>
<p>THAT firm, line in the cultural sand, attitude, is what is being lost, in Great Britain.     To bemoan its loss is what is labeled as &#8220;xenophobic&#8221; and &#8220;racist.&#8221;   </p>
<p>Shut up and pretend Sharia is not growing and expanding with each and every year.  Or we&#8217;ll shame you into shutting up by calling you a racist. </p>
<p>You know where you can stick those labels.    Hint: The sun doesn&#8217;t shine there.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135721</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135721</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[james.
I don&#039;t think Colin and his like actually think like Sir Charles.  It only goes one way.
Example.  The lion can lie down with the lamb.  If we disarm--become the lamb--the lion will inevitably become peaceful and not threaten us ever again.
&quot;That&#039;s guaranteed?&quot;
&quot;Guaranteed. God says so.&quot;
&quot;Well, how about I be the lion?  Still works, right?&quot;
&quot;Ummmmmmm....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>james.<br />
I don&#8217;t think Colin and his like actually think like Sir Charles.  It only goes one way.<br />
Example.  The lion can lie down with the lamb.  If we disarm&#8211;become the lamb&#8211;the lion will inevitably become peaceful and not threaten us ever again.<br />
&#8220;That&#8217;s guaranteed?&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Guaranteed. God says so.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Well, how about I be the lion?  Still works, right?&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Ummmmmmm&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135720</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135720</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A few days ago I was lucky enough to buy a wonderful Everyman&#039;s Library hardback of Orwell&#039;s essays for $15. This morning I began reading Orwell on TS Eliot&#039;s later poems and was gobsmacked, as some say, to see this passage:

&lt;i&gt;There was, however, a sense in which the charge of &quot;decadence&quot; could be justified [in Eliot&#039;s poems]. Clearly these poems were an end-product, the last gasp of a cultural tradition, &lt;b&gt;poems which spoke only for the cultivated third-generation rentier, for people able to feel and criticize but no longer able to act&lt;/b&gt;. E. M. Forster praised &quot;Prufrock&quot; on its first appearance because &quot;it sang of people who were ineffectual and weak&quot; and because it was &quot;innocent of public spirit&quot; (this was during the other war, when public spirit was a good deal more rampant than it is now). &lt;b&gt;The qualities by which any society which is to last longer than a generation actually has to be sustained -- industry, courage, patriotism, frugality, philoprogenitiveness -- obviously could not find any place in Eliot&#039;s early poems. There was only room for rentier values, the values of people too civilized to work, fight or even reproduce themselves.&lt;/b&gt;

-- George Orwell, &quot;Review: Burnt Norton, East Coker, The Dry Salvages by T. S. Eliot&quot; 1942&lt;/i&gt;

I love &quot;Burnt Norton&quot; but Orwell sure nails a strain of effete fecklessness that has long bothered me about Eliot -- even though Eliot became a reactionary and tried, in his way, to hold the line on cultural values.

Almost seventy years later and here we are. Orwell saw the writing, not on the wall, but in the highest of high canon modern poetry.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few days ago I was lucky enough to buy a wonderful Everyman&#8217;s Library hardback of Orwell&#8217;s essays for $15. This morning I began reading Orwell on TS Eliot&#8217;s later poems and was gobsmacked, as some say, to see this passage:</p>
<p><i>There was, however, a sense in which the charge of &#8220;decadence&#8221; could be justified [in Eliot&#8217;s poems]. Clearly these poems were an end-product, the last gasp of a cultural tradition, <b>poems which spoke only for the cultivated third-generation rentier, for people able to feel and criticize but no longer able to act</b>. E. M. Forster praised &#8220;Prufrock&#8221; on its first appearance because &#8220;it sang of people who were ineffectual and weak&#8221; and because it was &#8220;innocent of public spirit&#8221; (this was during the other war, when public spirit was a good deal more rampant than it is now). <b>The qualities by which any society which is to last longer than a generation actually has to be sustained &#8212; industry, courage, patriotism, frugality, philoprogenitiveness &#8212; obviously could not find any place in Eliot&#8217;s early poems. There was only room for rentier values, the values of people too civilized to work, fight or even reproduce themselves.</b></p>
<p>&#8212; George Orwell, &#8220;Review: Burnt Norton, East Coker, The Dry Salvages by T. S. Eliot&#8221; 1942</i></p>
<p>I love &#8220;Burnt Norton&#8221; but Orwell sure nails a strain of effete fecklessness that has long bothered me about Eliot &#8212; even though Eliot became a reactionary and tried, in his way, to hold the line on cultural values.</p>
<p>Almost seventy years later and here we are. Orwell saw the writing, not on the wall, but in the highest of high canon modern poetry.</p>
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		<title>
		By: southernjames		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135714</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[southernjames]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 13:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135714</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Shorter Colin:

If you are English and you aren&#039;t okay with ever growing Sharia being imposed in your country; along with the cultural changes (like family honor killings, forced wearing of burkas along with other revocations of women&#039;s rights, etc.) that come with it - you are a xenophobic racist. 

Okay. 

But hey - I&#039;m all for being sensitive and accepting &#039;multi-cultural diversity&#039;, no matter how allegedly &quot;barbaric&quot; it may appear to our dead white men Western Civ eyes.... 

....Just like Sir Charles Napier was when sensitively dealing with the customs of Indian locals, a long long time ago.   

&quot;You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well.  We also have a custom: When men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks, and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shorter Colin:</p>
<p>If you are English and you aren&#8217;t okay with ever growing Sharia being imposed in your country; along with the cultural changes (like family honor killings, forced wearing of burkas along with other revocations of women&#8217;s rights, etc.) that come with it &#8211; you are a xenophobic racist. </p>
<p>Okay. </p>
<p>But hey &#8211; I&#8217;m all for being sensitive and accepting &#8216;multi-cultural diversity&#8217;, no matter how allegedly &#8220;barbaric&#8221; it may appear to our dead white men Western Civ eyes&#8230;. </p>
<p>&#8230;.Just like Sir Charles Napier was when sensitively dealing with the customs of Indian locals, a long long time ago.   </p>
<p>&#8220;You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well.  We also have a custom: When men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks, and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: an unrepentant kulak		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135700</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[an unrepentant kulak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 07:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/regrets-of-the-greatest-generation/#comment-135700</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you, neo, for pointing out this excellent article. I&#039;ve added the book to my Amazon wishlist, and look forward to reading these vets&#039; accounts and reflections at greater length.

Much the same may be happening among our own aptly named &quot;greatest generation&quot; vets here in the U.S. -- at least, if &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/haroldestes.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this moving letter to Obama from 95-year-old WWII veteran Harold Estes&lt;/a&gt; is the real deal. Heartbreaking stuff, to me.

Wish I had time for more. I&#039;ll have to leave it at &quot;thanks!&quot; for now.


]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, neo, for pointing out this excellent article. I&#8217;ve added the book to my Amazon wishlist, and look forward to reading these vets&#8217; accounts and reflections at greater length.</p>
<p>Much the same may be happening among our own aptly named &#8220;greatest generation&#8221; vets here in the U.S. &#8212; at least, if <a href="http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/haroldestes.asp" rel="nofollow">this moving letter to Obama from 95-year-old WWII veteran Harold Estes</a> is the real deal. Heartbreaking stuff, to me.</p>
<p>Wish I had time for more. I&#8217;ll have to leave it at &#8220;thanks!&#8221; for now.</p>
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