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	Comments on: Obama&#8217;s Afghan speech at West Point	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Artfldgr		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135780</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Artfldgr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135780</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[oh... in that thread i coined this phrase as his doctrine. 

&lt;b&gt;“Unilateral preemptive concession”&lt;/b&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh&#8230; in that thread i coined this phrase as his doctrine. </p>
<p><b>“Unilateral preemptive concession”</b></p>
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		<title>
		By: Artfldgr		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135779</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Artfldgr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135779</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[neoneocon.com/2009/10/19/afghanistan-no-decision-is-itself-a-decision/#comment-130153

&lt;i&gt;a LONG while ago i said turkey, iraq, afghanistan, pakistan, make a one country line in the sand preventing movement of the material that destabilizes and manufactures crisis!!!! and i said that since bush was threatening to spike the door shut, by removing the three players iraq, afghanistan, and finally iran, that everything was going to heat up so much, we are all going to want to get out of the kitchen. 

hot enough yet? 

&lt;/i&gt;


Artfldgr Says: 
&lt;b&gt;April 9th, 2008 at 5:52 pm &lt;/b&gt;
www.neoneocon.com/2008/04/08/war-and-peace-and-the-dog-who-didnt-bark#comment-63467

go ahead and read it... 
i was even talking about gold prices... 

and i even mentioned why afghanistan would be a big problem:
&lt;i&gt;Some 60 tonnes of heroin a year pass through Tajikistan with the assistance of part of the Tajik political elite and senior Russian military officers stationed as members of a Russian force on the border according to Anton Surikov, a Russian official with close links to Russian military intelligence.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/europe/corrupt-russian-officers-profit-in-heroin-trade-752880.html
&lt;/i&gt;

i laid it out... 
and that was before obama was even elected. 

heck, sergey and i argued a bit on the quality of weaponry...  as of this week or last week they announced that it will be replaced shortly... duh

&lt;i&gt;given that history has shown that they like to build things and let us think they havent yet. remember?&lt;/i&gt;

read above...  read the articles in the news. 
almost none of them bring up russias interests. 

like not losing while the US wins.. 
better to have us both lose, no? 

like having iran hemmed in as the only source
better to have more than one route. 
like the weapons and cocaine building routes into africa...  which way way way back then i said was going to happen as they were preparing a new trade line...  weapons and coca from venezuela, to replace the weapons that cant make it through the land bridges. 

should i link up the article on the new cocain trade in africa, the new weapons being made by chavez and russia, and so on? 

anyone remember my comments in
Obama’s second Polish joke: the Obama Doctrine
neoneocon.com/2009/09/17/obamas-second-polish-joke-the-obama-doctrine/#comment-125938

&lt;i&gt;Obama and the left doesn’t see them as that. They have the revolutionaries fantasy of a grateful other. What Obama is trying to do is ingratiate himself to his Soviet others, because he and they are now on the same side. His first time with them, they weren’t nice and such, so he thinks they need some sort of overture, some gift, and then they will realize that they are on the same team. 

&lt;/i&gt;

and that gift? what could the moves be? 

&lt;b&gt;Obama won’t move decisively. In fact he aint paying attention to outside he is too busy working on his image internally. 

Even worse. They wrote Obama’s playbook and that was the old edition!
They know how he will interpret events reflexively, and Obama doesn’t even have to know or be doing what he is doing on purpose, as he is forced by the ideology he serves mentally to choose based on its rules. 

He is up against a system that has unbroken leaderships since during WWII.
Some of those guys are still there!

&lt;/b&gt;

this is easier than saying it over and over again for a couple of years...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>neoneocon.com/2009/10/19/afghanistan-no-decision-is-itself-a-decision/#comment-130153</p>
<p><i>a LONG while ago i said turkey, iraq, afghanistan, pakistan, make a one country line in the sand preventing movement of the material that destabilizes and manufactures crisis!!!! and i said that since bush was threatening to spike the door shut, by removing the three players iraq, afghanistan, and finally iran, that everything was going to heat up so much, we are all going to want to get out of the kitchen. </p>
<p>hot enough yet? </p>
<p></i></p>
<p>Artfldgr Says:<br />
<b>April 9th, 2008 at 5:52 pm </b><br />
<a href="http://www.neoneocon.com/2008/04/08/war-and-peace-and-the-dog-who-didnt-bark#comment-63467" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.neoneocon.com/2008/04/08/war-and-peace-and-the-dog-who-didnt-bark#comment-63467</a></p>
<p>go ahead and read it&#8230;<br />
i was even talking about gold prices&#8230; </p>
<p>and i even mentioned why afghanistan would be a big problem:<br />
<i>Some 60 tonnes of heroin a year pass through Tajikistan with the assistance of part of the Tajik political elite and senior Russian military officers stationed as members of a Russian force on the border according to Anton Surikov, a Russian official with close links to Russian military intelligence.<br />
<a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/europe/corrupt-russian-officers-profit-in-heroin-trade-752880.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.independent.co.uk/news/europe/corrupt-russian-officers-profit-in-heroin-trade-752880.html</a><br />
</i></p>
<p>i laid it out&#8230;<br />
and that was before obama was even elected. </p>
<p>heck, sergey and i argued a bit on the quality of weaponry&#8230;  as of this week or last week they announced that it will be replaced shortly&#8230; duh</p>
<p><i>given that history has shown that they like to build things and let us think they havent yet. remember?</i></p>
<p>read above&#8230;  read the articles in the news.<br />
almost none of them bring up russias interests. </p>
<p>like not losing while the US wins..<br />
better to have us both lose, no? </p>
<p>like having iran hemmed in as the only source<br />
better to have more than one route.<br />
like the weapons and cocaine building routes into africa&#8230;  which way way way back then i said was going to happen as they were preparing a new trade line&#8230;  weapons and coca from venezuela, to replace the weapons that cant make it through the land bridges. </p>
<p>should i link up the article on the new cocain trade in africa, the new weapons being made by chavez and russia, and so on? </p>
<p>anyone remember my comments in<br />
Obama’s second Polish joke: the Obama Doctrine<br />
neoneocon.com/2009/09/17/obamas-second-polish-joke-the-obama-doctrine/#comment-125938</p>
<p><i>Obama and the left doesn’t see them as that. They have the revolutionaries fantasy of a grateful other. What Obama is trying to do is ingratiate himself to his Soviet others, because he and they are now on the same side. His first time with them, they weren’t nice and such, so he thinks they need some sort of overture, some gift, and then they will realize that they are on the same team. </p>
<p></i></p>
<p>and that gift? what could the moves be? </p>
<p><b>Obama won’t move decisively. In fact he aint paying attention to outside he is too busy working on his image internally. </p>
<p>Even worse. They wrote Obama’s playbook and that was the old edition!<br />
They know how he will interpret events reflexively, and Obama doesn’t even have to know or be doing what he is doing on purpose, as he is forced by the ideology he serves mentally to choose based on its rules. </p>
<p>He is up against a system that has unbroken leaderships since during WWII.<br />
Some of those guys are still there!</p>
<p></b></p>
<p>this is easier than saying it over and over again for a couple of years&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: I R A Darth Aggie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135745</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[I R A Darth Aggie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135745</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Don’t throw the troops under the bus for domestic political victories.&lt;/i&gt;

I wonder if Obama is paying attention to your wise words.

Otherwise, I get the feeling that he wants it both ways - to be seen as a peace-bringer by the left, and righteous hawk by the right. Meanwhile, he spends our troops lifeblood for his political aspiration.

By dribs and drabs, eventually he&#039;ll declare victory and bring them home. But no victory over a resolute and implacable enemy who, unlike the Vietnamese, do wish us death and destruction.

Yes, I hope McChrystal fails The Won, and snatches victory from the jaws of &quot;peace&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Don’t throw the troops under the bus for domestic political victories.</i></p>
<p>I wonder if Obama is paying attention to your wise words.</p>
<p>Otherwise, I get the feeling that he wants it both ways &#8211; to be seen as a peace-bringer by the left, and righteous hawk by the right. Meanwhile, he spends our troops lifeblood for his political aspiration.</p>
<p>By dribs and drabs, eventually he&#8217;ll declare victory and bring them home. But no victory over a resolute and implacable enemy who, unlike the Vietnamese, do wish us death and destruction.</p>
<p>Yes, I hope McChrystal fails The Won, and snatches victory from the jaws of &#8220;peace&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: expat		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135729</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[expat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135729</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[maneocon,

To support your commeent, I offer this.  About a week ago, there was a headline on German TV text news that German troops had been fired upon in Kundus.  Now the text news blurbs are probably written by interns at the stations, but still, how can anyone living in a country with troops in Afghanistan find it newsworthy that someone shot at them. Such is the denial in the populations of our allies.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>maneocon,</p>
<p>To support your commeent, I offer this.  About a week ago, there was a headline on German TV text news that German troops had been fired upon in Kundus.  Now the text news blurbs are probably written by interns at the stations, but still, how can anyone living in a country with troops in Afghanistan find it newsworthy that someone shot at them. Such is the denial in the populations of our allies.</p>
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		<title>
		By: maneocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135723</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maneocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135723</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Bush&#039;s fault in Afghanistan was that he listened to his critics and did what they suggested: Outsource the war effort to our &#039;allies&#039; - the NATO. And the 8 year war is a direct result of the ineptitude of NATO forces which did not want to fight, but only police. It is a failure of political will on the part of our NATO allies, but we choose to blame Bush.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush&#8217;s fault in Afghanistan was that he listened to his critics and did what they suggested: Outsource the war effort to our &#8216;allies&#8217; &#8211; the NATO. And the 8 year war is a direct result of the ineptitude of NATO forces which did not want to fight, but only police. It is a failure of political will on the part of our NATO allies, but we choose to blame Bush.</p>
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		<title>
		By: expat		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135719</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[expat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135719</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[hoolie,

Do you really believe he cares about the corruption and incompetence of the Afghan government?  He&#039;s from Chicago, and these things  never seemed to bother him there. No, he hates that national security is getting in the way of his utopian dreams.  I use dreams rather than plans because as we&#039;ve seen with health care, the boring day to day work doesn&#039;t interest him. 

Barack Obama has a dream: He stands above the world throwing out ideas for its perfection. The hard work of making small positive changes is left to others, who run the danger of being thrown under the bus if they dull his shining image. He stood before a group of young people who will risk their lives to protect America, and he asked them to think about the hard life he has. As a candidate, he did everything he could to undermine the sitting president. As we now see, all of his criticisms were totally superficial. He spent about $800,000 to get where he is now, and he expects our pity. BS!

There was no inspiring message to the Afghans in his speech, no words they could hold on in the tough times ahead. He sounded more like a collection man in a Chicago protection scheme. 

OMT: Our soldiers have 12 years of schooling before they get to training camp. They can actually read training manuals. They receive further training throughout their careers. They are supported by engineers working constantly on drones and IED detection devices. Do you really think the Afghan army can get to this level in 12 weeks or 18 months?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hoolie,</p>
<p>Do you really believe he cares about the corruption and incompetence of the Afghan government?  He&#8217;s from Chicago, and these things  never seemed to bother him there. No, he hates that national security is getting in the way of his utopian dreams.  I use dreams rather than plans because as we&#8217;ve seen with health care, the boring day to day work doesn&#8217;t interest him. </p>
<p>Barack Obama has a dream: He stands above the world throwing out ideas for its perfection. The hard work of making small positive changes is left to others, who run the danger of being thrown under the bus if they dull his shining image. He stood before a group of young people who will risk their lives to protect America, and he asked them to think about the hard life he has. As a candidate, he did everything he could to undermine the sitting president. As we now see, all of his criticisms were totally superficial. He spent about $800,000 to get where he is now, and he expects our pity. BS!</p>
<p>There was no inspiring message to the Afghans in his speech, no words they could hold on in the tough times ahead. He sounded more like a collection man in a Chicago protection scheme. </p>
<p>OMT: Our soldiers have 12 years of schooling before they get to training camp. They can actually read training manuals. They receive further training throughout their careers. They are supported by engineers working constantly on drones and IED detection devices. Do you really think the Afghan army can get to this level in 12 weeks or 18 months?</p>
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		<title>
		By: hoolie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135710</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hoolie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135710</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Obama did exactly what you expect a leader of a country or a company to do. Weigh all the options, the results and affects and come up with a plan that was evidently met with some approval by his war staffers. The 18 month limit makes total sense. It wasn&#039;t to embolden our enemies as so many has quickly pounced on. It was in fact to tell the Afgan government as well as the rest of the world that we are willing to put our resources and military at risk for a time as long as the honest effort is there to get your collective heads out of your asses and stand up for yourselves. That is exactly how it should be. We can&#039;t be the worlds police force. 230  years ago we stood up as a small nation for ourselves. In the end the French helped out but not until they saw the commitment and sacrifice our forefathers were making. That should be the same level of commitiment we hold the Afgans to. We ctrain our soldiers and marines in 12 weeks to be part of a great military force. Why should it take any longer for the average Afgan to train up and stand up for his own country.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama did exactly what you expect a leader of a country or a company to do. Weigh all the options, the results and affects and come up with a plan that was evidently met with some approval by his war staffers. The 18 month limit makes total sense. It wasn&#8217;t to embolden our enemies as so many has quickly pounced on. It was in fact to tell the Afgan government as well as the rest of the world that we are willing to put our resources and military at risk for a time as long as the honest effort is there to get your collective heads out of your asses and stand up for yourselves. That is exactly how it should be. We can&#8217;t be the worlds police force. 230  years ago we stood up as a small nation for ourselves. In the end the French helped out but not until they saw the commitment and sacrifice our forefathers were making. That should be the same level of commitiment we hold the Afgans to. We ctrain our soldiers and marines in 12 weeks to be part of a great military force. Why should it take any longer for the average Afgan to train up and stand up for his own country.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135697</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J. formerly Jimmy J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 06:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135697</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Gray, 
It was an interesting conversation.  So, how do you really feel about the speech? Lols.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gray,<br />
It was an interesting conversation.  So, how do you really feel about the speech? Lols.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gray		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135696</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 05:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135696</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I talked among myself.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I talked among myself.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gray		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135693</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 04:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/12/01/obamas-afghan-speech-at-west-point/#comment-135693</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Arrrrgh!  The rest of the conservative punditosphere is really missing it on this speech tonight.

Obama &lt;i&gt;did&lt;/i&gt; Draw a Line in the Sand:

He will not endanger his domestic spending by fighting the war longer than 30 billion dollars.

That is his Line in the Sand.

That is why he chose the &quot;medium-high-risk-of-failure&quot; number of troops.  That is why he chose 18 months.  That is why he had the Orszag-weasel in the war council.  That is why it took so long to nail this option down:  he had to factor in all his other spending and start flogging &quot;budget reduction&quot;.

Furthermore, we know know that any future budget predictions &lt;i&gt;do not include&lt;/i&gt; spending more than 30 billion in Afghanistan.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arrrrgh!  The rest of the conservative punditosphere is really missing it on this speech tonight.</p>
<p>Obama <i>did</i> Draw a Line in the Sand:</p>
<p>He will not endanger his domestic spending by fighting the war longer than 30 billion dollars.</p>
<p>That is his Line in the Sand.</p>
<p>That is why he chose the &#8220;medium-high-risk-of-failure&#8221; number of troops.  That is why he chose 18 months.  That is why he had the Orszag-weasel in the war council.  That is why it took so long to nail this option down:  he had to factor in all his other spending and start flogging &#8220;budget reduction&#8221;.</p>
<p>Furthermore, we know know that any future budget predictions <i>do not include</i> spending more than 30 billion in Afghanistan.</p>
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