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	Comments on: Obama on Afghanistan: victory is a four-letter word	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 10 Jun 2019 07:05:06 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-2438282</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jun 2019 07:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-2438282</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;...for several days....&quot;

Well, give or take....
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-25772192]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;for several days&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, give or take&#8230;.<br />
<a href="https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-25772192" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-25772192</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Julie near Chicago		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-2438275</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Julie near Chicago]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jun 2019 04:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-2438275</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hah!  Much as I feel sorry for the little boy on his tricycle in the ancient photo, who probably didn&#039;t start out as a Mess,  a Mess he turned out to be, and I don&#039;t know what anyone with a functional brain was thinking who cast a vote for him.  

(Actually, I do know that some people were simply overcome with pride that our country had come so far as to have a part-Negro candidate, and in the words of an online pal who&#039;d grown up in a Negro neighborhood and thought the world of his father&#039;s friends there and the whole community, &quot;I wanted so much to vote for the first black President.&quot;  

http://www.hoboes.com/FireBlade/Editorials/HoodMilitia/

(And even David Horowitz wobbled slightly a week or two before the election IiRC, but I think he regained his balance before he voted.)

Personally, I voted for Gov. Palin.

(Ben just above on July 26, 2009 at 11:55 pm  made an excellent point, by the way.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hah!  Much as I feel sorry for the little boy on his tricycle in the ancient photo, who probably didn&#8217;t start out as a Mess,  a Mess he turned out to be, and I don&#8217;t know what anyone with a functional brain was thinking who cast a vote for him.  </p>
<p>(Actually, I do know that some people were simply overcome with pride that our country had come so far as to have a part-Negro candidate, and in the words of an online pal who&#8217;d grown up in a Negro neighborhood and thought the world of his father&#8217;s friends there and the whole community, &#8220;I wanted so much to vote for the first black President.&#8221;  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.hoboes.com/FireBlade/Editorials/HoodMilitia/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.hoboes.com/FireBlade/Editorials/HoodMilitia/</a></p>
<p>(And even David Horowitz wobbled slightly a week or two before the election IiRC, but I think he regained his balance before he voted.)</p>
<p>Personally, I voted for Gov. Palin.</p>
<p>(Ben just above on July 26, 2009 at 11:55 pm  made an excellent point, by the way.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ben		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-118354</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 03:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-118354</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am reminded of my favorite stand-up comedian, Brian Regan.

&quot;I don&#039;t like the phrase &quot;one thing led to another.&quot; Imagine reading a history book, &quot;As a young man, Adolf Hitler was rejected from art school. Well, one thing led to another, and the United States dropped two nuclear bombs on the Empire of Japan.&quot;

Hope this helps.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am reminded of my favorite stand-up comedian, Brian Regan.</p>
<p>&#8220;I don&#8217;t like the phrase &#8220;one thing led to another.&#8221; Imagine reading a history book, &#8220;As a young man, Adolf Hitler was rejected from art school. Well, one thing led to another, and the United States dropped two nuclear bombs on the Empire of Japan.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
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		<title>
		By: armchair pessimist		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-118269</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[armchair pessimist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-118269</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well, the very rich, the very progressive and the very elite regard themselves as citizens of the world, don&#039;t they? 

By curious and unnatural circumstances, they are suddenly in  command of the entity they hate and despise.   The coup d&#039;etat of our economy, of energy and now of heathcare are all aspects of the same goal, which is to hammer this country down and into its proper place. A composite of Sweden and Cuba, as far as I can make out.  It goes without saying that our military, let alone military victory, is not to their taste. 

But I take  hope in their madness.  It may be, as the Communists proved, that decades indoctrination and propaganda cannot greatly alter the stubborn bedrock of national character.  I don&#039;t know about the rest of you but I&#039;m sensing damn little hope and damn less enthusiasm for change as I (so faux-casually) talk to people around me.

The word &quot;hate&quot; is thrown about too loosely nowadays, but I can honestly confess that for the people who want to destroy this country,  I feel hate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the very rich, the very progressive and the very elite regard themselves as citizens of the world, don&#8217;t they? </p>
<p>By curious and unnatural circumstances, they are suddenly in  command of the entity they hate and despise.   The coup d&#8217;etat of our economy, of energy and now of heathcare are all aspects of the same goal, which is to hammer this country down and into its proper place. A composite of Sweden and Cuba, as far as I can make out.  It goes without saying that our military, let alone military victory, is not to their taste. </p>
<p>But I take  hope in their madness.  It may be, as the Communists proved, that decades indoctrination and propaganda cannot greatly alter the stubborn bedrock of national character.  I don&#8217;t know about the rest of you but I&#8217;m sensing damn little hope and damn less enthusiasm for change as I (so faux-casually) talk to people around me.</p>
<p>The word &#8220;hate&#8221; is thrown about too loosely nowadays, but I can honestly confess that for the people who want to destroy this country,  I feel hate.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Oblio		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-118267</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oblio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-118267</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Startling ignorance on display from The One.  What did he learn at Columbia and Harvard?  

And how can his supporters keep on waxing lyrical about his &quot;brilliance?&quot;  

I read a line in about 1985 about Ralph Lauren&#039;s lack of design imagination: &quot;He is the most brilliant designer ever to find an old Abercrombie &#038; Fitch catalog and some tracing paper.&quot;  I feel the same way about Obama&#039;s speeches: they are shallow and derivative, without an iota of originality in them, mere pale copies MLK&#039;s speeches.

Obama has a nice speaking voice.  He would be fantastic doing voice-overs for NFL Films, or maybe movie trailers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Startling ignorance on display from The One.  What did he learn at Columbia and Harvard?  </p>
<p>And how can his supporters keep on waxing lyrical about his &#8220;brilliance?&#8221;  </p>
<p>I read a line in about 1985 about Ralph Lauren&#8217;s lack of design imagination: &#8220;He is the most brilliant designer ever to find an old Abercrombie &amp; Fitch catalog and some tracing paper.&#8221;  I feel the same way about Obama&#8217;s speeches: they are shallow and derivative, without an iota of originality in them, mere pale copies MLK&#8217;s speeches.</p>
<p>Obama has a nice speaking voice.  He would be fantastic doing voice-overs for NFL Films, or maybe movie trailers.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-118240</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 03:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-118240</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Only one bomb fell on Pearl Harbor and Ben Affleck was in it.
As somebody said, lucky Sarah Palin didn&#039;t make the Hirohito remark. She would have been called ignorant and stupid.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only one bomb fell on Pearl Harbor and Ben Affleck was in it.<br />
As somebody said, lucky Sarah Palin didn&#8217;t make the Hirohito remark. She would have been called ignorant and stupid.</p>
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		<title>
		By: davidt		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-118237</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[davidt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 02:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-118237</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Obama cares about Obama&#039;s victories, not US victories.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama cares about Obama&#8217;s victories, not US victories.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nolanimrod		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-118227</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nolanimrod]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 01:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-118227</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[re:  your AT piece - Your penultimate paragraph - POW! (say that five times and you could put out a lot of matches)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re:  your AT piece &#8211; Your penultimate paragraph &#8211; POW! (say that five times and you could put out a lot of matches)</p>
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		<title>
		By: gcotharn		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-118211</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gcotharn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 22:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-118211</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[OT: my family has always been proud that my uncle was selected to fly - in a demonstration team of fighter pilots (a precursor to the Blue Angels) - above those who gathered for the surrender ceremony on the deck of the Missouri.  General MacArthur wanted the most impressive display of military capability which he was able to muster.  The following year, 1946, Adm. Nimitz ordered the formation of a Navy flight demonstration team.  The team created their own moniker, &quot;The Blue Angels&quot;, because one of their pilots knew of The Blue Angel nightclub in NYC.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OT: my family has always been proud that my uncle was selected to fly &#8211; in a demonstration team of fighter pilots (a precursor to the Blue Angels) &#8211; above those who gathered for the surrender ceremony on the deck of the Missouri.  General MacArthur wanted the most impressive display of military capability which he was able to muster.  The following year, 1946, Adm. Nimitz ordered the formation of a Navy flight demonstration team.  The team created their own moniker, &#8220;The Blue Angels&#8221;, because one of their pilots knew of The Blue Angel nightclub in NYC.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Stphnd		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-118203</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stphnd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 21:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/25/obama-on-afghanistan-victory-is-a-four-letter-word/#comment-118203</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not certain &lt;i&gt;what&lt;/i&gt; Pres. Obama has in mind when it comes to his policy for Afghanistan. At one time he seemed to assert that Afghanistan was &lt;i&gt;the place&lt;/i&gt; to fight alQaeda and along with them the Taliban; at another time we hear that his National Security Advisor Jim Jones tells the commanders in the field that they can expect to hear &quot;WTF?&quot; from the President should they ever seek more troops to do the job that they have been charged by Obama to do (whatever precisely that is). When the policy was rolled out back in March of this year, we were told by Marc Ambinder that on Afghanistan and Pakistan&lt;a href=&quot;http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/03/obamas_afpak_policy_a_detailed_preview.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;:&lt;/a&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Obama plans to emphasize results-driven cooperation with both countries. He will endorse a Senate bill, authored by Sens. John Kerry and Richard Lugar, that would condition a significant increase in aid to Pakistan on measurable improvements in Pakistan&#039;s internal efforts to combat terrorism.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Results driven cooperation to what exactly? We don&#039;t know. (Note that Ambinder seemed to be impressed that Obama was going to bring Iran! into the calculations back then: &quot;codifies for the first time Iran&#039;s role in regional diplomacy&quot;. We see how well that&#039;s worked out in the meantime.)

At the same time, men who&#039;s opinion I trust, men like Mike Yon and Herschel Smith believe that it will be decades before the Afghans make significant progress toward merely controlling their own nation, let alone joining the rest of the emerging democracies of Asia like India, Thailand, and Indonesia in providing stability and economic well being and education for their people, to say nothing of the more advanced economic powers like South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan. Afghanistan is a hard case, perhaps as hard a case as a nation as any other on earth. 

Though he hasn&#039;t had much of a mention yet in this discussion, I think that Pres. Bush understood this &quot;hard case&quot; fact about Afghanistan and that in some measure, his practical sense of the matter was to keep our expectations low while keeping the jihadi presence there in check. I can&#039;t recall a single instance of Bush suggesting we strive for victory as such in Afghanistan (as distinct from victory over al Qaeda). 

In the meantime, US and allied casualties are growing due to the greater numbers of men on the ground and the greater numbers of engagements fought as those men press to rid select areas of Talib influence and bring security to the people, as they put it. On the upside, in contrast to my apprehensions about Obama, Gen Petraeus remains at his post overseeing the region. That may be the lone reassuring circumstance in the mix.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not certain <i>what</i> Pres. Obama has in mind when it comes to his policy for Afghanistan. At one time he seemed to assert that Afghanistan was <i>the place</i> to fight alQaeda and along with them the Taliban; at another time we hear that his National Security Advisor Jim Jones tells the commanders in the field that they can expect to hear &#8220;WTF?&#8221; from the President should they ever seek more troops to do the job that they have been charged by Obama to do (whatever precisely that is). When the policy was rolled out back in March of this year, we were told by Marc Ambinder that on Afghanistan and Pakistan<a href="http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/03/obamas_afpak_policy_a_detailed_preview.php" rel="nofollow">:</a> </p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Obama plans to emphasize results-driven cooperation with both countries. He will endorse a Senate bill, authored by Sens. John Kerry and Richard Lugar, that would condition a significant increase in aid to Pakistan on measurable improvements in Pakistan&#8217;s internal efforts to combat terrorism.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Results driven cooperation to what exactly? We don&#8217;t know. (Note that Ambinder seemed to be impressed that Obama was going to bring Iran! into the calculations back then: &#8220;codifies for the first time Iran&#8217;s role in regional diplomacy&#8221;. We see how well that&#8217;s worked out in the meantime.)</p>
<p>At the same time, men who&#8217;s opinion I trust, men like Mike Yon and Herschel Smith believe that it will be decades before the Afghans make significant progress toward merely controlling their own nation, let alone joining the rest of the emerging democracies of Asia like India, Thailand, and Indonesia in providing stability and economic well being and education for their people, to say nothing of the more advanced economic powers like South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan. Afghanistan is a hard case, perhaps as hard a case as a nation as any other on earth. </p>
<p>Though he hasn&#8217;t had much of a mention yet in this discussion, I think that Pres. Bush understood this &#8220;hard case&#8221; fact about Afghanistan and that in some measure, his practical sense of the matter was to keep our expectations low while keeping the jihadi presence there in check. I can&#8217;t recall a single instance of Bush suggesting we strive for victory as such in Afghanistan (as distinct from victory over al Qaeda). </p>
<p>In the meantime, US and allied casualties are growing due to the greater numbers of men on the ground and the greater numbers of engagements fought as those men press to rid select areas of Talib influence and bring security to the people, as they put it. On the upside, in contrast to my apprehensions about Obama, Gen Petraeus remains at his post overseeing the region. That may be the lone reassuring circumstance in the mix.</p>
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