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	Comments on: How the Left lost Susan Estrich on health care reform	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:35:59 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Oh, bother		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118186</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oh, bother]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 20:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118186</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What happens to psych patients under rationed care? Do they get lithium no matter what their diagnosis, because it&#039;s cheapest? Are atypical responders treated as poorly as chronic pain patients? Are non-responding psych patients urged to commit suicide? It would be so easy to do -- switch &#039;em over to placebos without their knowledge until they were suicidal, then offer euthanasia and voila! Another one bites the dust, and after giving &#039;informed&#039; consent, to boot.

Okay, I&#039;ll quit being a smart**s now, but it&#039;s a serious question. I assume infants with genetic diseases would be screened and aborted. Think of Trig Palin and the leftists&#039; fury that he was permitted to live. But being born with faculties intact is no guarantee one will remain that way. What happens if a child is injured and suffers brain damage? How are people with dementia or intractable mental illness treated under a single payor/rationed healthcare system?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What happens to psych patients under rationed care? Do they get lithium no matter what their diagnosis, because it&#8217;s cheapest? Are atypical responders treated as poorly as chronic pain patients? Are non-responding psych patients urged to commit suicide? It would be so easy to do &#8212; switch &#8217;em over to placebos without their knowledge until they were suicidal, then offer euthanasia and voila! Another one bites the dust, and after giving &#8216;informed&#8217; consent, to boot.</p>
<p>Okay, I&#8217;ll quit being a smart**s now, but it&#8217;s a serious question. I assume infants with genetic diseases would be screened and aborted. Think of Trig Palin and the leftists&#8217; fury that he was permitted to live. But being born with faculties intact is no guarantee one will remain that way. What happens if a child is injured and suffers brain damage? How are people with dementia or intractable mental illness treated under a single payor/rationed healthcare system?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Baklava		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118170</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baklava]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 18:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118170</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I noticed Estrich says some things about her party once in a while.

It isn&#039;t because she has been having any core-belief change.

It&#039;s because the party she usually works with are so far off base that she can&#039;t defend their actions to somebody.

I wonder who that somebody is.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I noticed Estrich says some things about her party once in a while.</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t because she has been having any core-belief change.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s because the party she usually works with are so far off base that she can&#8217;t defend their actions to somebody.</p>
<p>I wonder who that somebody is.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118111</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 04:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118111</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oh bother: you are correct that those people will be very hard hit.  In Canada, for example, chronic pain patients are treated very poorly compared to in this country.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh bother: you are correct that those people will be very hard hit.  In Canada, for example, chronic pain patients are treated very poorly compared to in this country.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jon baker		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118105</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jon baker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 03:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118105</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What I mean by &quot;right&quot; above is that government funds cannot be denied. I am in no way advocating making sex change operations illegal - what I fear is that people will be given the &quot;right&quot; to have them paid for by the government, while other less hip care is rationed- like care for the elderly.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I mean by &#8220;right&#8221; above is that government funds cannot be denied. I am in no way advocating making sex change operations illegal &#8211; what I fear is that people will be given the &#8220;right&#8221; to have them paid for by the government, while other less hip care is rationed- like care for the elderly.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jon baker		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118104</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jon baker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 03:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118104</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Seeing the comment about abortion above brings to mind a question I have had about this:  Will Sex change operations become a right but care for the elderly rationed?  I mean, the way things are in this country with Judges, even if it is not in the original bill, it is probably only a matter of time before some judge rules it a medical right.  Our &quot;youth obsessed culture&quot; quiet honoring the elderly in many ways.  I do not trust it to do the right thing by them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seeing the comment about abortion above brings to mind a question I have had about this:  Will Sex change operations become a right but care for the elderly rationed?  I mean, the way things are in this country with Judges, even if it is not in the original bill, it is probably only a matter of time before some judge rules it a medical right.  Our &#8220;youth obsessed culture&#8221; quiet honoring the elderly in many ways.  I do not trust it to do the right thing by them.</p>
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		<title>
		By: J. L.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118083</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J. L.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 02:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118083</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Theres a good article by Peggy Noonan on the reasons why Obama and his liberal Dems are losing the healthcare argument:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203517304574306533556532364.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203517304574306533556532364.html &lt;/a&gt;

The first point she makes is precisely the same one made by Estrich, that the Dem&#039;s healthcare proposals fail to pass the &quot;common sense&quot; test. Heres the money quote:

&lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;I think the plan is being slowed and may well be stopped not by ideology, or even by philosophy in a strict sense, but by simple American common sense. I suspect voters, the past few weeks, have been giving themselves an internal Q-and-A that goes something like this:

Will whatever health care bill is produced by Congress increase the deficit? “Of course.” Will it mean tax increases? “Of course.” Will it mean new fees or fines? “Probably.” Can I afford it right now? “No, I’m already getting clobbered.” Will it make the marketplace freer and better? “Probably not.” Is our health care system in crisis? “Yeah, it has been for years.” Is it the most pressing crisis right now? “No, the economy is.” Will a health-care bill improve the economy? “I doubt it.” &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;

Another reason given is that the liberal Dems, in their incredible arrogance, seem to be insisting on provisions which require funding of abortions. This repulses people who may otheriwse have been supportive of socialized healthcare, but for whom abortion is evil. The quote;

&lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;Speaking only and narrowly in political terms, this is so ignorant as to be astounding. A good portion of the support for national health care comes from a sort of European Christian Democrat spirit of community, of “We are all in this together.” This spirit potentially unites Democrats, leftists, some Republicans and GOP populists, the politically unaffiliated and those of whatever view with low incomes. But putting abortion in the mix takes the Christian out of Christian Democrat. It breaks and jangles the coalition, telling those who believe abortion is evil that they not only have to accept its legality but now have to pay for it in a brand new plan, for which they’ll be more highly taxed. This is taking a knife to your own supporters. &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;

I think that if theres anything that may save us from the worst possibilities of the Obama/Pelosi/Reid administration is the very elitism and arrogance of the liberal left. They seem to be so used to being surrounded by people who believe exactly as they do, that they can&#039;t imagine that they actually have to consider those who don&#039;t. I am so very ready to see these arrogant people fall flat on their faces.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Theres a good article by Peggy Noonan on the reasons why Obama and his liberal Dems are losing the healthcare argument:</p>
<p><a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203517304574306533556532364.html" rel="nofollow"> </a><a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203517304574306533556532364.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203517304574306533556532364.html</a> </p>
<p>The first point she makes is precisely the same one made by Estrich, that the Dem&#8217;s healthcare proposals fail to pass the &#8220;common sense&#8221; test. Heres the money quote:</p>
<p><b><i>I think the plan is being slowed and may well be stopped not by ideology, or even by philosophy in a strict sense, but by simple American common sense. I suspect voters, the past few weeks, have been giving themselves an internal Q-and-A that goes something like this:</p>
<p>Will whatever health care bill is produced by Congress increase the deficit? “Of course.” Will it mean tax increases? “Of course.” Will it mean new fees or fines? “Probably.” Can I afford it right now? “No, I’m already getting clobbered.” Will it make the marketplace freer and better? “Probably not.” Is our health care system in crisis? “Yeah, it has been for years.” Is it the most pressing crisis right now? “No, the economy is.” Will a health-care bill improve the economy? “I doubt it.” </i></b></p>
<p>Another reason given is that the liberal Dems, in their incredible arrogance, seem to be insisting on provisions which require funding of abortions. This repulses people who may otheriwse have been supportive of socialized healthcare, but for whom abortion is evil. The quote;</p>
<p><b><i>Speaking only and narrowly in political terms, this is so ignorant as to be astounding. A good portion of the support for national health care comes from a sort of European Christian Democrat spirit of community, of “We are all in this together.” This spirit potentially unites Democrats, leftists, some Republicans and GOP populists, the politically unaffiliated and those of whatever view with low incomes. But putting abortion in the mix takes the Christian out of Christian Democrat. It breaks and jangles the coalition, telling those who believe abortion is evil that they not only have to accept its legality but now have to pay for it in a brand new plan, for which they’ll be more highly taxed. This is taking a knife to your own supporters. </i></b></p>
<p>I think that if theres anything that may save us from the worst possibilities of the Obama/Pelosi/Reid administration is the very elitism and arrogance of the liberal left. They seem to be so used to being surrounded by people who believe exactly as they do, that they can&#8217;t imagine that they actually have to consider those who don&#8217;t. I am so very ready to see these arrogant people fall flat on their faces.</p>
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		<title>
		By: nyomythus		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118069</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nyomythus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 01:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118069</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[-d]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>-d</p>
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		<title>
		By: nyomythus		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118068</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nyomythus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 01:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118068</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I can&#039;t pigeonholed myself into a position either -- thanks for the videos!!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t pigeonholed myself into a position either &#8212; thanks for the videos!!!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Oh, bother		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118067</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oh, bother]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 01:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118067</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jim G., elephants are herd animals, and yours has a friend.

Neo, you&#039;ve expressed interest in the programs about women who didn&#039;t know they were pregnant until right up to the moment of delivery. Have you seen the ones about people who have had various seemingly unrelated symptoms for years, sometimes decades? Some of the patients have multiple hospital admissions as they search for an answer, all very expensive. I have a friend who watches all those shows hoping her own list of weird symptoms will be shown. So far, no luck.

I&#039;m concerned with the ultimate fate under ObamaCare of people suffering from long-term and mysterious and/or expensive ailments. How many years to find a diagnosis will they get? Or will it be a certain number of consults? Do certain classes of disease or patient get a pass? If so, which and why?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim G., elephants are herd animals, and yours has a friend.</p>
<p>Neo, you&#8217;ve expressed interest in the programs about women who didn&#8217;t know they were pregnant until right up to the moment of delivery. Have you seen the ones about people who have had various seemingly unrelated symptoms for years, sometimes decades? Some of the patients have multiple hospital admissions as they search for an answer, all very expensive. I have a friend who watches all those shows hoping her own list of weird symptoms will be shown. So far, no luck.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m concerned with the ultimate fate under ObamaCare of people suffering from long-term and mysterious and/or expensive ailments. How many years to find a diagnosis will they get? Or will it be a certain number of consults? Do certain classes of disease or patient get a pass? If so, which and why?</p>
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		<title>
		By: MikeLL		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118061</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeLL]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 01:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/24/how-the-left-lost-susan-estrich-on-health-care-reform/#comment-118061</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[huxley: &quot;I’m predicting another slide of five or more points in Obama’s Presidential Approval index by the end of August.&quot;

I don&#039;t know how many point it will be, but he is definitely sliding down.  And according to Bernanke&#039;s recent article in the WSJ, the economy is not going to get better anytime soon.

So, Democrats will come out of the August recess with an even worse situation than they face right now.  Is it possible they could pass this monster of a bill without enormous revisions?  Doesn&#039;t seem likely to me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>huxley: &#8220;I’m predicting another slide of five or more points in Obama’s Presidential Approval index by the end of August.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how many point it will be, but he is definitely sliding down.  And according to Bernanke&#8217;s recent article in the WSJ, the economy is not going to get better anytime soon.</p>
<p>So, Democrats will come out of the August recess with an even worse situation than they face right now.  Is it possible they could pass this monster of a bill without enormous revisions?  Doesn&#8217;t seem likely to me.</p>
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