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	Comments on: Obama&#8217;s peace/love	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Lee		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106196</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 21:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106196</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;My children have no future. None of the children of Pakistan have a future. We are surrounded by nothing but war and suffering. Millions should die away.”

Islam in a nutshell.  Since it cannot give it&#039;s people a reason to live, it gives them a reason to die.  We all ignore Islam at our own peril.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My children have no future. None of the children of Pakistan have a future. We are surrounded by nothing but war and suffering. Millions should die away.”</p>
<p>Islam in a nutshell.  Since it cannot give it&#8217;s people a reason to live, it gives them a reason to die.  We all ignore Islam at our own peril.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106125</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 00:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106125</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Abolitionists had some fancy ideas. It took people like Lincoln and Catholics (Underground railroad) to actually do something about it.

High and fancy ideas amount to nothing without real sacrifice.

The thing is, Obama will demand sacrifices of everyone except himself or his little band of corrupt brothers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abolitionists had some fancy ideas. It took people like Lincoln and Catholics (Underground railroad) to actually do something about it.</p>
<p>High and fancy ideas amount to nothing without real sacrifice.</p>
<p>The thing is, Obama will demand sacrifices of everyone except himself or his little band of corrupt brothers.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Thomass		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106074</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thomass]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106074</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[huxley Says: 

&quot;Thomass – I think the moral certitude of progressives goes back further too. The Social Gospel is one such example. The Abolitionist movement another.

Progressives were right about some things like civil rights and labor reforms&quot;

I&#039;m not sure it’s a straight line between here and the Abolitionist moment. It always seemed like a classical liberal issue from my POV.. Up until Stalin made the Negro Condition a propaganda meme; progressives were (in general) as racist as anyone else in the US (re: racist). What’s worse, due to their belief in a strong state and a right to play with people&#039;s lives; they did more harm than the average racist/s. To blacks in order to weed them out to improve the population (to make it easier to have a large social safety net)... to Mexicans with forced deportations to help Union labor... Now they look back and say those progressives had some unfortunate conservative tendencies... ahhh, double think...

PS
The point of support for the civil rights reforms were strengthening the central state (a recurring theme for the progressives)… It was a convenient issue. Just like the financial crisis is today.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>huxley Says: </p>
<p>&#8220;Thomass – I think the moral certitude of progressives goes back further too. The Social Gospel is one such example. The Abolitionist movement another.</p>
<p>Progressives were right about some things like civil rights and labor reforms&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure it’s a straight line between here and the Abolitionist moment. It always seemed like a classical liberal issue from my POV.. Up until Stalin made the Negro Condition a propaganda meme; progressives were (in general) as racist as anyone else in the US (re: racist). What’s worse, due to their belief in a strong state and a right to play with people&#8217;s lives; they did more harm than the average racist/s. To blacks in order to weed them out to improve the population (to make it easier to have a large social safety net)&#8230; to Mexicans with forced deportations to help Union labor&#8230; Now they look back and say those progressives had some unfortunate conservative tendencies&#8230; ahhh, double think&#8230;</p>
<p>PS<br />
The point of support for the civil rights reforms were strengthening the central state (a recurring theme for the progressives)… It was a convenient issue. Just like the financial crisis is today.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106071</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 17:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106071</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My bet for a nuclear war has long been India-Pakistan. Here&#039;s a discussion between Pakistani Brigadier General Aman and Peter Landesman writing for the Atlantic.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200203/landesman

&lt;i&gt;&quot;I insisted Benazir [Bhutto] accept [painting of several Pakistani leaders watching a rocket roar across the sky] as a gift,&quot; Aman told me.

We both looked up at the painting in silence. &quot;A rocket ship heading to the moon?&quot; I asked.

Aman tipped his head to the side. A smirk tugged at the corners of his mouth. &quot;No,&quot; he said. &quot;A nuclear warhead heading to India.&quot;

I thought he was making a joke. Then I saw he wasn&#039;t. I thought of the shrines to Pakistan&#039;s nuclear-weapons site, prominently displayed in every city. I told Aman that I was disturbed by the ease with which Pakistanis talk of nuclear war with India.

Aman shook his head. &quot;No,&quot; he said matter-of-factly. &quot;This should happen. We should use the bomb.&quot;

&quot;For what purpose?&quot; He didn&#039;t seem to understand my question. &quot;In retaliation?&quot; I asked.

&quot;Why not?&quot;

&quot;Or first strike?&quot;

&quot;Why not?&quot;

I looked for a sign of irony. None was visible. Rocking his head side to side, his expression becoming more and more withdrawn, Aman launched into a monologue that neither of us, I am sure, knew was coming:

&quot;We should fire at them and take out a few of their cities–Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta,&quot; he said. &quot;They should fire back and take Karachi and Lahore. Kill off a hundred or two hundred million people. They should fire at us and it would all be over. They have acted so badly toward us; they have been so mean. We should teach them a lesson. It would teach all of us a lesson. There is no future here, and we need to start over. So many people think this. Have you been to the villages of Pakistan, the interior? There is nothing but dire poverty and pain. The children have no education; there is nothing to look forward to. Go into the villages, see the poverty. There is no drinking water. Small children without shoes walk miles for a drink of water. I go to the villages and I want to cry. My children have no future. None of the children of Pakistan have a future. We are surrounded by nothing but war and suffering. Millions should die away.&quot;

&quot;Pakistan should fire pre-emptively?&quot; I asked.

Aman nodded.

&quot;And you are willing to see your children die?&quot;

&quot;Tens of thousands of people are dying in Kashmir, and the only superpower says nothing,&quot; Aman said. &quot;America has sided with India because it has interests there.&quot; He told me he was willing to see his children be killed. He repeated that they didn&#039;t have any future–his children or any other children.&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My bet for a nuclear war has long been India-Pakistan. Here&#8217;s a discussion between Pakistani Brigadier General Aman and Peter Landesman writing for the Atlantic.<br />
<a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200203/landesman" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200203/landesman</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;I insisted Benazir [Bhutto] accept [painting of several Pakistani leaders watching a rocket roar across the sky] as a gift,&#8221; Aman told me.</p>
<p>We both looked up at the painting in silence. &#8220;A rocket ship heading to the moon?&#8221; I asked.</p>
<p>Aman tipped his head to the side. A smirk tugged at the corners of his mouth. &#8220;No,&#8221; he said. &#8220;A nuclear warhead heading to India.&#8221;</p>
<p>I thought he was making a joke. Then I saw he wasn&#8217;t. I thought of the shrines to Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear-weapons site, prominently displayed in every city. I told Aman that I was disturbed by the ease with which Pakistanis talk of nuclear war with India.</p>
<p>Aman shook his head. &#8220;No,&#8221; he said matter-of-factly. &#8220;This should happen. We should use the bomb.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;For what purpose?&#8221; He didn&#8217;t seem to understand my question. &#8220;In retaliation?&#8221; I asked.</p>
<p>&#8220;Why not?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Or first strike?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Why not?&#8221;</p>
<p>I looked for a sign of irony. None was visible. Rocking his head side to side, his expression becoming more and more withdrawn, Aman launched into a monologue that neither of us, I am sure, knew was coming:</p>
<p>&#8220;We should fire at them and take out a few of their cities–Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta,&#8221; he said. &#8220;They should fire back and take Karachi and Lahore. Kill off a hundred or two hundred million people. They should fire at us and it would all be over. They have acted so badly toward us; they have been so mean. We should teach them a lesson. It would teach all of us a lesson. There is no future here, and we need to start over. So many people think this. Have you been to the villages of Pakistan, the interior? There is nothing but dire poverty and pain. The children have no education; there is nothing to look forward to. Go into the villages, see the poverty. There is no drinking water. Small children without shoes walk miles for a drink of water. I go to the villages and I want to cry. My children have no future. None of the children of Pakistan have a future. We are surrounded by nothing but war and suffering. Millions should die away.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Pakistan should fire pre-emptively?&#8221; I asked.</p>
<p>Aman nodded.</p>
<p>&#8220;And you are willing to see your children die?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Tens of thousands of people are dying in Kashmir, and the only superpower says nothing,&#8221; Aman said. &#8220;America has sided with India because it has interests there.&#8221; He told me he was willing to see his children be killed. He repeated that they didn&#8217;t have any future–his children or any other children.</i></p>
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		<title>
		By: armchair pessimist		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106057</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[armchair pessimist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 12:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106057</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[But not everybody buys the premise that a nuclear war would be all that bad.  

In Krushchev&#039;s memoirs he says that Mao was quite willing to have one, telling him that there were so many Chinese that there&#039;d be plenty left afterwards.  This scared the beejezus out of Krushchev.  Today nukes are the only demographics Russia has a chance of winning. I wouldn&#039;t scap them either.   Even a responsible democracy like India is worrisome.  When they successfully exploded their first bomb, a very high member of the government wanted to issue commemorative bottles containing soil from the test site. It had to be explained to him what radioactive meant.  

Then go down the foodchain to the  nuthouse places, where life is cheap. They&#039;re drooling for nukes, and will get them.  The only deterrent their dear leaders understand is the certainty of their own deaths if ever they fire one  off. 

My only hope for the miserable decision the American electorate made in November is that he is an instinctive babbler and con artist and never speaks his mind.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But not everybody buys the premise that a nuclear war would be all that bad.  </p>
<p>In Krushchev&#8217;s memoirs he says that Mao was quite willing to have one, telling him that there were so many Chinese that there&#8217;d be plenty left afterwards.  This scared the beejezus out of Krushchev.  Today nukes are the only demographics Russia has a chance of winning. I wouldn&#8217;t scap them either.   Even a responsible democracy like India is worrisome.  When they successfully exploded their first bomb, a very high member of the government wanted to issue commemorative bottles containing soil from the test site. It had to be explained to him what radioactive meant.  </p>
<p>Then go down the foodchain to the  nuthouse places, where life is cheap. They&#8217;re drooling for nukes, and will get them.  The only deterrent their dear leaders understand is the certainty of their own deaths if ever they fire one  off. </p>
<p>My only hope for the miserable decision the American electorate made in November is that he is an instinctive babbler and con artist and never speaks his mind.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106056</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 11:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106056</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;It is my opinion that nuclear arms have prevented a world conflict larger than WWII. MAD has worked for quite some time. Perhaps because it’s mad.&lt;/i&gt;

It did work that way and the nuclear stand-off of the Cold War allowed Europe to heal from WWI and WWII in a way that would have been impossible otherwise.

However, there were close calls, such as the Cuban Missile Crisis. If a full, horrific nuclear exchange had occurred, no one reading the history later would have been surprised.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It is my opinion that nuclear arms have prevented a world conflict larger than WWII. MAD has worked for quite some time. Perhaps because it’s mad.</i></p>
<p>It did work that way and the nuclear stand-off of the Cold War allowed Europe to heal from WWI and WWII in a way that would have been impossible otherwise.</p>
<p>However, there were close calls, such as the Cuban Missile Crisis. If a full, horrific nuclear exchange had occurred, no one reading the history later would have been surprised.</p>
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		<title>
		By: br549		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106055</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[br549]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 11:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106055</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Some have said Bush was a Christian Socialist.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some have said Bush was a Christian Socialist.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106054</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 11:45:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106054</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thomass -- I think the moral certitude of progressives goes back further too. The Social Gospel is one such example. The Abolitionist movement another.

Progressives were right about some things like civil rights and labor reforms, but they came to believe the rest of their agenda with the same uncompromising moral fervor.

Interesting tidbit: I looked up Wiki&#039;s page on the Social Gospel movement and discovered that the question &quot;What would Jesus do?&quot; which we currently associate with conservative Christians, was originated by Charles Sheldon who was committed to Christian Socialism.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomass &#8212; I think the moral certitude of progressives goes back further too. The Social Gospel is one such example. The Abolitionist movement another.</p>
<p>Progressives were right about some things like civil rights and labor reforms, but they came to believe the rest of their agenda with the same uncompromising moral fervor.</p>
<p>Interesting tidbit: I looked up Wiki&#8217;s page on the Social Gospel movement and discovered that the question &#8220;What would Jesus do?&#8221; which we currently associate with conservative Christians, was originated by Charles Sheldon who was committed to Christian Socialism.</p>
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		<title>
		By: br549		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106052</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[br549]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106052</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It is my opinion that nuclear arms have prevented a world conflict larger than WWII. MAD has worked for quite some time. Perhaps because it&#039;s mad.

Socialism wants everyone to give up, except for those who would rule the rest. The way I see it, those who are socialist are so pissed at the haves that they are willing to have nothing, just so no one else does either. The journey of life becomes quite dull, almost meaningless to me, if the route one is to take is known at the onset. No one to cheer for, nothing to aspire to. What I find so humorous about hope and change is those who hold those views. If you mean gimme, then say it.

I remember Mark Twain saying something about truth; that it should be dressed in tights, not a bulky over coat.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is my opinion that nuclear arms have prevented a world conflict larger than WWII. MAD has worked for quite some time. Perhaps because it&#8217;s mad.</p>
<p>Socialism wants everyone to give up, except for those who would rule the rest. The way I see it, those who are socialist are so pissed at the haves that they are willing to have nothing, just so no one else does either. The journey of life becomes quite dull, almost meaningless to me, if the route one is to take is known at the onset. No one to cheer for, nothing to aspire to. What I find so humorous about hope and change is those who hold those views. If you mean gimme, then say it.</p>
<p>I remember Mark Twain saying something about truth; that it should be dressed in tights, not a bulky over coat.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Perfected democrat		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106050</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Perfected democrat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/04/06/obamas-peacelove/#comment-106050</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aim.org/aim-report/how-obama-revolution-came-to-america/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s another fun one.&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.aim.org/aim-report/how-obama-revolution-came-to-america/" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s another fun one.</a></p>
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