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	Comments on: Math gone wild	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:08:59 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: ad		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102381</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102381</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Fortunately, climatology models don’t have such problems, and cannot, because we understand climatology so much better than the financial world around us.&lt;/i&gt;

And that is why we can be sure that global warming will not be much &lt;i&gt;much&lt;/i&gt; worse than the models predict.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Fortunately, climatology models don’t have such problems, and cannot, because we understand climatology so much better than the financial world around us.</i></p>
<p>And that is why we can be sure that global warming will not be much <i>much</i> worse than the models predict.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Occam's Beard		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102357</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Occam's Beard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102357</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To your excellent points, sergey, let me add the classic: nitwits who airily characterize general relativity as &quot;everything&#039;s relative&quot; and think they&#039;ve said something profound/ insightful/ intelligent / not completely moronic.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To your excellent points, sergey, let me add the classic: nitwits who airily characterize general relativity as &#8220;everything&#8217;s relative&#8221; and think they&#8217;ve said something profound/ insightful/ intelligent / not completely moronic.</p>
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		<title>
		By: sergey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102346</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sergey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 12:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102346</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Several times I witnessed the same comical misunderstanding: the lecturer, say, Dr. Shmuck, gives a public lecture about how Universe come into being. After two hours of barely understandable formulas, diagramms and profesional jargon the audience is full of awe, and nobody, it seems, is aware that the subject was not Universe creation, but Dr. Shmuck&#039;s model of it, and that there exist dozens other cosmogonical models as well, with completely different assumptions and methologies (and conclusions).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Several times I witnessed the same comical misunderstanding: the lecturer, say, Dr. Shmuck, gives a public lecture about how Universe come into being. After two hours of barely understandable formulas, diagramms and profesional jargon the audience is full of awe, and nobody, it seems, is aware that the subject was not Universe creation, but Dr. Shmuck&#8217;s model of it, and that there exist dozens other cosmogonical models as well, with completely different assumptions and methologies (and conclusions).</p>
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		<title>
		By: sergey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102344</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sergey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102344</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[When those who build models and those who use them belong to different subcultures and types of mentality, misunderstanding is inevitable. Limitations of models can be obvious only to builders, but users can be completely unaware of them. This is the case with climate models, at least: built as laboratory tools only to study climate sensitivity to different parameters change, one parameter only changed in each experiment, they were used as prognostic devices - but they have no such power at all! They do not include interplay of similtaneously changing all hand-introduced parameters: this is a problem for another parameter space, of higher dimensionatity, and it is not tractable even algorithmically, to set apart calculateability issues.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When those who build models and those who use them belong to different subcultures and types of mentality, misunderstanding is inevitable. Limitations of models can be obvious only to builders, but users can be completely unaware of them. This is the case with climate models, at least: built as laboratory tools only to study climate sensitivity to different parameters change, one parameter only changed in each experiment, they were used as prognostic devices &#8211; but they have no such power at all! They do not include interplay of similtaneously changing all hand-introduced parameters: this is a problem for another parameter space, of higher dimensionatity, and it is not tractable even algorithmically, to set apart calculateability issues.</p>
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		<title>
		By: sergey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102343</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sergey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102343</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is a typical, the most common error of misuse of statistics. These Gaussian approximations are so convinient to use, that is hard to resist temtation to do so even if underlying empirical data do not suggest anything Gaussian about them. That how most applied math works: simplify original formulation of the problem at hand until it becomes tractable (original formulations usually are not). Than pray that the results are at least qualitatively resemble those of original setting, because there is no way to know it for sure. Only well-trained mathematicians can fully appreciate the futility of their discipline when applied not to ideal objects created by their imagination, but to real-world problems (technical and engineering problems sometimes also belong to &quot;real-world&quot; category, while mostly not; we at least attempt to make artificial constructions obey well-known and simple laws). But really complex natural systems, like economics, society, climate, which are products of self-organization and historical development, often do not allow this simplistic engineering approach.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a typical, the most common error of misuse of statistics. These Gaussian approximations are so convinient to use, that is hard to resist temtation to do so even if underlying empirical data do not suggest anything Gaussian about them. That how most applied math works: simplify original formulation of the problem at hand until it becomes tractable (original formulations usually are not). Than pray that the results are at least qualitatively resemble those of original setting, because there is no way to know it for sure. Only well-trained mathematicians can fully appreciate the futility of their discipline when applied not to ideal objects created by their imagination, but to real-world problems (technical and engineering problems sometimes also belong to &#8220;real-world&#8221; category, while mostly not; we at least attempt to make artificial constructions obey well-known and simple laws). But really complex natural systems, like economics, society, climate, which are products of self-organization and historical development, often do not allow this simplistic engineering approach.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Artfldgr		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102310</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Artfldgr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102310</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[oh. forgot to mention.. madoff is a different beast... 

theer were one of those scrubbed news things.. .two of his big clients were russian mob and drug cartels.   if they run business like the italian mob runs restaurants when people team up with them for profit, there would be a reason why madoff is always smiling like a man who has been reprieved from hell and will only get a breaking on the wheel instead. 

[no one notices the strategic importance of what maddoff was doing...  when isreal was created, who funded a lot of it?  when there were wars, who funded weapons? if there was a war, or an altercation that was big enough, who would have taken their assets of large amount, and poured them into the cause on the side of israel?  perhaps the many many many targeted jewish wealthy? its not a good analysis... its stretching things way far...  but there is no reason that this cant be a part of it..  he got in too deep, they then worked him...  he then was trapped till it all fell apart not by his actions... now he is free... or his family is free...  that would fit well...  but is complete supposition with no basis other than an association that was mentioned...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh. forgot to mention.. madoff is a different beast&#8230; </p>
<p>theer were one of those scrubbed news things.. .two of his big clients were russian mob and drug cartels.   if they run business like the italian mob runs restaurants when people team up with them for profit, there would be a reason why madoff is always smiling like a man who has been reprieved from hell and will only get a breaking on the wheel instead. </p>
<p>[no one notices the strategic importance of what maddoff was doing&#8230;  when isreal was created, who funded a lot of it?  when there were wars, who funded weapons? if there was a war, or an altercation that was big enough, who would have taken their assets of large amount, and poured them into the cause on the side of israel?  perhaps the many many many targeted jewish wealthy? its not a good analysis&#8230; its stretching things way far&#8230;  but there is no reason that this cant be a part of it..  he got in too deep, they then worked him&#8230;  he then was trapped till it all fell apart not by his actions&#8230; now he is free&#8230; or his family is free&#8230;  that would fit well&#8230;  but is complete supposition with no basis other than an association that was mentioned&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Artfldgr		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102308</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Artfldgr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102308</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Occam, and rickl, thanks so much for your comments.  its a desert here..   :)

 and nolanimrod... i feel your pain... frustration... and horror knowing that all over there is similar. 

i lost a job from a firm that did 75 million in PROFIT per year with less than 20 employees. i use it as my example that being smart does not equate success... they could make 75 millino a year, but they fired me because i couldnt number to 750,000,000 (ten mass mailings for a illegal contest), in 8 numeric places ONLY using numbers. 

yes, marketing convince the boss that i was just being difficult and wouldnt use my intellgence to help them..  [people hate the intellgent, and leftists especially hate them. Why do so many people hate this girl simply for being clever? www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1152008/Your-starter-Why-hate-girl-simply-clever.html  

they wanted to scan $100 dollar bills and put them in their mailing to grab attention...  they decided that saving them from the secret service freezing their business, computer and assets was not good either. 

&lt;i&gt;Same thing with Madoff. Several people said he couldn’t be doing what he said he was. Those people were told to shut up and get out of the way.&lt;/i&gt;

look at the article link i put (i am trying not to post to be shorter), you will see the effect yourself. the people who saw thigns no one else did were intelligent (not cargo cult intelligentsiatic posers)..

but since the less intelligent couldnt understand them, and they had so much self esteem and equality training, they discount them. (i watch this at the hospital where only medical stuff that is dumb enough gets worked on since one cant get permission from the appointees to do the work since they dont understand things!!!)

if you look at the article, and read the commentary from those online who commented negatively on this, you will see the parallel to Lee attacking me, and others... they sound like one voice... 

well, just look at the prior thread where lee dug into me because i didnt use spell check. carco cult concept of genius... and twisted other things. 


its THESE people.. elevated above their ability wno are the problem. theya ctually cant compete at the level they have been put into. they think that by being put into it, they have been vetted by others as to being equal. but one only has to see that they cant perform. so they spend all their time smacking and intimidating the truly smart with all kinds of little games... (meanwhile, there is no benifit to them for doing this). 

no boss thats appointed feels safe with employees who are dumber than them. switching from merit and accepting reality means that we appointed people to higher positions than they can do, and so they are threatened if anyone is percieved to have ability to take that away (whether they do or not, false premises are just as valid to a believer as real ones are). so they get rid of them.   i dont work in academia, so i usually dnot work long unless i am somplace where the ruler appointee realizes i dont want to move upwards! (then i am a darling for a while till somone else breaks us up to prevent our collusion from trumping them - sigh)


it took me years to do an end aroudn this system.. now they are about to license and patent new tech i have because theya re hard up for the cash... (i hope neo will smile big when she reads my real name in the paper next year...  :) )


the most frustrating part is that the smart guys are over helpful and usually nice...  they wull let others &quot;borrow their minds&quot;: if harvard type ed hasnt gotten to them...  yet so many would rather alienate them in favor of more positive heroes... like paris hilton, or maybe che, or richard speck. 

thanks again for the comments!!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Occam, and rickl, thanks so much for your comments.  its a desert here..   🙂</p>
<p> and nolanimrod&#8230; i feel your pain&#8230; frustration&#8230; and horror knowing that all over there is similar. </p>
<p>i lost a job from a firm that did 75 million in PROFIT per year with less than 20 employees. i use it as my example that being smart does not equate success&#8230; they could make 75 millino a year, but they fired me because i couldnt number to 750,000,000 (ten mass mailings for a illegal contest), in 8 numeric places ONLY using numbers. </p>
<p>yes, marketing convince the boss that i was just being difficult and wouldnt use my intellgence to help them..  [people hate the intellgent, and leftists especially hate them. Why do so many people hate this girl simply for being clever? <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1152008/Your-starter-Why-hate-girl-simply-clever.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1152008/Your-starter-Why-hate-girl-simply-clever.html</a>  </p>
<p>they wanted to scan $100 dollar bills and put them in their mailing to grab attention&#8230;  they decided that saving them from the secret service freezing their business, computer and assets was not good either. </p>
<p><i>Same thing with Madoff. Several people said he couldn’t be doing what he said he was. Those people were told to shut up and get out of the way.</i></p>
<p>look at the article link i put (i am trying not to post to be shorter), you will see the effect yourself. the people who saw thigns no one else did were intelligent (not cargo cult intelligentsiatic posers)..</p>
<p>but since the less intelligent couldnt understand them, and they had so much self esteem and equality training, they discount them. (i watch this at the hospital where only medical stuff that is dumb enough gets worked on since one cant get permission from the appointees to do the work since they dont understand things!!!)</p>
<p>if you look at the article, and read the commentary from those online who commented negatively on this, you will see the parallel to Lee attacking me, and others&#8230; they sound like one voice&#8230; </p>
<p>well, just look at the prior thread where lee dug into me because i didnt use spell check. carco cult concept of genius&#8230; and twisted other things. </p>
<p>its THESE people.. elevated above their ability wno are the problem. theya ctually cant compete at the level they have been put into. they think that by being put into it, they have been vetted by others as to being equal. but one only has to see that they cant perform. so they spend all their time smacking and intimidating the truly smart with all kinds of little games&#8230; (meanwhile, there is no benifit to them for doing this). </p>
<p>no boss thats appointed feels safe with employees who are dumber than them. switching from merit and accepting reality means that we appointed people to higher positions than they can do, and so they are threatened if anyone is percieved to have ability to take that away (whether they do or not, false premises are just as valid to a believer as real ones are). so they get rid of them.   i dont work in academia, so i usually dnot work long unless i am somplace where the ruler appointee realizes i dont want to move upwards! (then i am a darling for a while till somone else breaks us up to prevent our collusion from trumping them &#8211; sigh)</p>
<p>it took me years to do an end aroudn this system.. now they are about to license and patent new tech i have because theya re hard up for the cash&#8230; (i hope neo will smile big when she reads my real name in the paper next year&#8230;  🙂 )</p>
<p>the most frustrating part is that the smart guys are over helpful and usually nice&#8230;  they wull let others &#8220;borrow their minds&#8221;: if harvard type ed hasnt gotten to them&#8230;  yet so many would rather alienate them in favor of more positive heroes&#8230; like paris hilton, or maybe che, or richard speck. </p>
<p>thanks again for the comments!!!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Artfldgr		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102305</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Artfldgr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102305</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[DAvid, it sounds vaguely familiar, but to be honest i dont remember that!   so... thank you so very much for adding to my voluminous repetoire!  you will find that this and other things (like length conversion dooming a space mission) are not uncommon...   just dont think about it when your on a plane and realize the same people write that software too.   :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DAvid, it sounds vaguely familiar, but to be honest i dont remember that!   so&#8230; thank you so very much for adding to my voluminous repetoire!  you will find that this and other things (like length conversion dooming a space mission) are not uncommon&#8230;   just dont think about it when your on a plane and realize the same people write that software too.   🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ray		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102296</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102296</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[GIGO: Garbage In, Garbage Out.

Way back when I wrote computer programms for microwave antenna design We used to joke that GIGO means garbage in, gospel out. 

People would believe nonsense as long as it was on a computer printout.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GIGO: Garbage In, Garbage Out.</p>
<p>Way back when I wrote computer programms for microwave antenna design We used to joke that GIGO means garbage in, gospel out. </p>
<p>People would believe nonsense as long as it was on a computer printout.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Perfected democrat		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102272</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Perfected democrat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 05:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/24/math-gone-wild/#comment-102272</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Math gone wild&quot;

2% of the wealthiest American&#039;s are going to pay for the several trillion dollar spendulus program, everybody else gets a free ride and a tax break. Carbon caps aren&#039;t going to result in severely inflated prices for automobile and energy prices...
Oops guess this belongs in the commentary on Obama&#039;s baloney session tonite...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Math gone wild&#8221;</p>
<p>2% of the wealthiest American&#8217;s are going to pay for the several trillion dollar spendulus program, everybody else gets a free ride and a tax break. Carbon caps aren&#8217;t going to result in severely inflated prices for automobile and energy prices&#8230;<br />
Oops guess this belongs in the commentary on Obama&#8217;s baloney session tonite&#8230;</p>
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