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	Comments on: Watch out for the new New Deal	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:42:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: FredHjr		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100573</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FredHjr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100573</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[rickl,

Agree totally with  your post above.  Lately, the socialism-as-revival of feudalism meme is gaining traction, because it unmasks the rhetoric of Marx, Lenin, Mao, and the Frankfurt School thinkers to reveal behind it the monopolization of power and the state as an allegedly benevolent feudal lord who takes care of his serfs.  There is patronage and monopoly.  The Western European socialists and the upstart American socialists do it via the tax code.

Many years ago during my decade on the Left (1977-1987) I was trying to see if theoretically there was a way around this trap of totalitarian failure.  I could not find it, and when I could not I gave up my academic Marxist quest.  Socialism failed, fails, and ever will fail.  No amount of &quot;this time we&#039;ll get it right!&quot; will obviate the epistemological nonsense of its claims.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rickl,</p>
<p>Agree totally with  your post above.  Lately, the socialism-as-revival of feudalism meme is gaining traction, because it unmasks the rhetoric of Marx, Lenin, Mao, and the Frankfurt School thinkers to reveal behind it the monopolization of power and the state as an allegedly benevolent feudal lord who takes care of his serfs.  There is patronage and monopoly.  The Western European socialists and the upstart American socialists do it via the tax code.</p>
<p>Many years ago during my decade on the Left (1977-1987) I was trying to see if theoretically there was a way around this trap of totalitarian failure.  I could not find it, and when I could not I gave up my academic Marxist quest.  Socialism failed, fails, and ever will fail.  No amount of &#8220;this time we&#8217;ll get it right!&#8221; will obviate the epistemological nonsense of its claims.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Scottie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100557</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scottie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 12:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100557</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I second what rickl said....!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second what rickl said&#8230;.!</p>
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		<title>
		By: br549		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100553</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[br549]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100553</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Again, perhaps Rush had it right. He calls Obama the &quot;president select&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, perhaps Rush had it right. He calls Obama the &#8220;president select&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: br549		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100552</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[br549]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100552</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To make matters worse, the inexperience of the junior from IL become president is rearing its ugly head even sooner than expected. The Pelosi - Reid coalition is playing him like a cheap piano. The rest of the world, while saying it is great we elected him, has no respect for him.

I&#039;ll bet he already longs for the day he could just vote &quot;present&quot; and let it go at that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To make matters worse, the inexperience of the junior from IL become president is rearing its ugly head even sooner than expected. The Pelosi &#8211; Reid coalition is playing him like a cheap piano. The rest of the world, while saying it is great we elected him, has no respect for him.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll bet he already longs for the day he could just vote &#8220;present&#8221; and let it go at that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: rickl		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100548</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rickl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 06:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100548</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt; FredHjr Says: 
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:05 pm
I’m still trying to figure out what exactly it is that America’s largest corporations, NGO’s, and financial institutions want with remaking the U.S. into the Euro-socialist model.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

I think the largest corporations and wealthiest individuals are in favor of competition until they clamber to the top of the heap; then they want to pull the ladder up behind them and cement themselves permanently into position.

I view socialism as a modern version of feudalism.  We are already starting to see elective offices becoming hereditary fiefdoms.  This is occurring in both parties and at the federal, state, and local levels.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite=""><p> FredHjr Says:<br />
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:05 pm<br />
I’m still trying to figure out what exactly it is that America’s largest corporations, NGO’s, and financial institutions want with remaking the U.S. into the Euro-socialist model.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think the largest corporations and wealthiest individuals are in favor of competition until they clamber to the top of the heap; then they want to pull the ladder up behind them and cement themselves permanently into position.</p>
<p>I view socialism as a modern version of feudalism.  We are already starting to see elective offices becoming hereditary fiefdoms.  This is occurring in both parties and at the federal, state, and local levels.</p>
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		<title>
		By: FredHjr		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100511</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FredHjr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100511</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m still trying to figure out what exactly it is that America&#039;s largest corporations, NGO&#039;s, and financial institutions want with remaking the U.S. into the Euro-socialist model.

Why would the people want this kind of model?  Take a country like France, for example.  High structural unemployment.  High taxes and thick regulations.  Entrepreneurship is discouraged because of this.  Young people have a hard time finding jobs because it&#039;s difficult for employers to fire people.  The high taxes and the welfare state sap the life out of the economy.  On top of it all, that country is being destroyed by a hostile Muslim element that is vastly out reproducing the native French.

On top of it all, a vastly bulked up welfare state is going to mean dramatic reductions in our military budget and the size of the military at a time in history when the strategic threats are growing, not diminishing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still trying to figure out what exactly it is that America&#8217;s largest corporations, NGO&#8217;s, and financial institutions want with remaking the U.S. into the Euro-socialist model.</p>
<p>Why would the people want this kind of model?  Take a country like France, for example.  High structural unemployment.  High taxes and thick regulations.  Entrepreneurship is discouraged because of this.  Young people have a hard time finding jobs because it&#8217;s difficult for employers to fire people.  The high taxes and the welfare state sap the life out of the economy.  On top of it all, that country is being destroyed by a hostile Muslim element that is vastly out reproducing the native French.</p>
<p>On top of it all, a vastly bulked up welfare state is going to mean dramatic reductions in our military budget and the size of the military at a time in history when the strategic threats are growing, not diminishing.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100498</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 17:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100498</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The economic stimulus package currently under discussion is a Trojan Horse filled with every pet project and entitlement guarantee boosted by the left for the past 20 years. Most of the money will be spent later, probably after the natural course of the recession will have self corrected. So Obama gets a two-fer: credit for having rescued the economy from a repeat of the Great Depression and a hammerlock on the freedoms of Americans who don&#039;t want to construct a European style social democracy/welfare state.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The economic stimulus package currently under discussion is a Trojan Horse filled with every pet project and entitlement guarantee boosted by the left for the past 20 years. Most of the money will be spent later, probably after the natural course of the recession will have self corrected. So Obama gets a two-fer: credit for having rescued the economy from a repeat of the Great Depression and a hammerlock on the freedoms of Americans who don&#8217;t want to construct a European style social democracy/welfare state.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dane		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100492</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 15:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100492</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Even though there are hearings all over C-Span we still have no idea what deals are being made in the back rooms (remember that reporter in Denver at the Dem Convention who was accosted/arrested by the police just because he was trying to take pictures of all the big money people and Obama&#039;s top aides?).  

My true fear is that congress and the administration will cajole (read &quot;force&quot;) the automakers into retooling to make more hybrid cars based on the current technology - this will cost billions.  The current hybrid technology in this country doesn&#039;t even give the kind of mileage that diesel does (and  diesel is very clean now thanks in large part to President Bush&#039;s administration mandating a 95% reduction in sulfur for highway diesel).  Not only is the mileage less but there is the problem of disposing / recycling the batteries - a process potentially much more dangerous to the environment than the carbon emissions.

Take a look at some of the electric and hybrid technology currently being developed in Europe and Asia - it&#039;s amazing.
Within four to eight years that technology will make the current obsolete so about the time the US automakers start rolling out the big numbers of vehicles based on the current technology no one will want them because the Asian and European manufacturers will be delivering cars based on the new technology.

If the past 20 years of the computer era has taught us anything it should be that profitability depends on continuing innovation.  Business and individuals are capable of such innovation - government is not.  

sorry for the long post]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even though there are hearings all over C-Span we still have no idea what deals are being made in the back rooms (remember that reporter in Denver at the Dem Convention who was accosted/arrested by the police just because he was trying to take pictures of all the big money people and Obama&#8217;s top aides?).  </p>
<p>My true fear is that congress and the administration will cajole (read &#8220;force&#8221;) the automakers into retooling to make more hybrid cars based on the current technology &#8211; this will cost billions.  The current hybrid technology in this country doesn&#8217;t even give the kind of mileage that diesel does (and  diesel is very clean now thanks in large part to President Bush&#8217;s administration mandating a 95% reduction in sulfur for highway diesel).  Not only is the mileage less but there is the problem of disposing / recycling the batteries &#8211; a process potentially much more dangerous to the environment than the carbon emissions.</p>
<p>Take a look at some of the electric and hybrid technology currently being developed in Europe and Asia &#8211; it&#8217;s amazing.<br />
Within four to eight years that technology will make the current obsolete so about the time the US automakers start rolling out the big numbers of vehicles based on the current technology no one will want them because the Asian and European manufacturers will be delivering cars based on the new technology.</p>
<p>If the past 20 years of the computer era has taught us anything it should be that profitability depends on continuing innovation.  Business and individuals are capable of such innovation &#8211; government is not.  </p>
<p>sorry for the long post</p>
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		<title>
		By: Scottie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100487</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scottie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100487</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To Tom @ 10:30PM - I now have to go hit the bookstore, thanks much! I didn&#039;t know there was a book out by that name.

--------

Regarding the conversation about taxation vs regulation, just remember that the power to tax is the power to destroy.

While I&#039;m sure the democrats have a nice list of things they&#039;d love to tax out of existence, there will always be unintended consequences of their actions.

For instance, with cigarettes being taxed out of existence you will have numerous countereffects.

First, if the tax were raised to the point that smokers quit smoking then the &quot;sin taxes&quot; that are derived from commodities such as cigarettes will disappear and thereby hurt state economies that rely at least partially on those &quot;sin taxes&quot; for budget purposes.

Result - loss of tax revenue that will have to be made up elsewhere by raising taxes on something else.

Additionally, you will always have people that will smoke in spite of the attempt to tax cigarettes out of existence - even if they have to hide in the basement to do it.

If publicly successful in such an effort, you&#039;d still have people engaged in black market activities to provide cigarettes at vastly inflated prices and for which government would derive no income at all.

Result - organized crime gets a boost in revenue, previously law abiding citizens become criminals engaged in now illegal activities, public acceptance of criminal behaviour becomes more acceptable to a wider variety of average citizens, loss of respect for law and government....well, think prohibition.

As to how far regulations should go, my own view is that the government should remain limited to the powers enumerated in the federal charter and any regulations should be based upon an overwhelming need that can&#039;t be satisfied otherwise.

Unfortunately that&#039;s a view I don&#039;t believe is shared by the current regime.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Tom @ 10:30PM &#8211; I now have to go hit the bookstore, thanks much! I didn&#8217;t know there was a book out by that name.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>Regarding the conversation about taxation vs regulation, just remember that the power to tax is the power to destroy.</p>
<p>While I&#8217;m sure the democrats have a nice list of things they&#8217;d love to tax out of existence, there will always be unintended consequences of their actions.</p>
<p>For instance, with cigarettes being taxed out of existence you will have numerous countereffects.</p>
<p>First, if the tax were raised to the point that smokers quit smoking then the &#8220;sin taxes&#8221; that are derived from commodities such as cigarettes will disappear and thereby hurt state economies that rely at least partially on those &#8220;sin taxes&#8221; for budget purposes.</p>
<p>Result &#8211; loss of tax revenue that will have to be made up elsewhere by raising taxes on something else.</p>
<p>Additionally, you will always have people that will smoke in spite of the attempt to tax cigarettes out of existence &#8211; even if they have to hide in the basement to do it.</p>
<p>If publicly successful in such an effort, you&#8217;d still have people engaged in black market activities to provide cigarettes at vastly inflated prices and for which government would derive no income at all.</p>
<p>Result &#8211; organized crime gets a boost in revenue, previously law abiding citizens become criminals engaged in now illegal activities, public acceptance of criminal behaviour becomes more acceptable to a wider variety of average citizens, loss of respect for law and government&#8230;.well, think prohibition.</p>
<p>As to how far regulations should go, my own view is that the government should remain limited to the powers enumerated in the federal charter and any regulations should be based upon an overwhelming need that can&#8217;t be satisfied otherwise.</p>
<p>Unfortunately that&#8217;s a view I don&#8217;t believe is shared by the current regime.</p>
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		<title>
		By: SteveH		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100480</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SteveH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:57:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/02/02/watch-out-for-the-new-new-deal/#comment-100480</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I remember catching a Cardinal when i was about 8 years old. I took the beautiful bright red bird and stuck him in a bird cage i had. I come back maybe an hour later and he was dead. He killed himself trying to get out.

 That was one of my earliest lessons about life and how much regulation is too much. Pretty simple actually. Its any regulation where the thing you desire to control ceases to be the thing it was.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember catching a Cardinal when i was about 8 years old. I took the beautiful bright red bird and stuck him in a bird cage i had. I come back maybe an hour later and he was dead. He killed himself trying to get out.</p>
<p> That was one of my earliest lessons about life and how much regulation is too much. Pretty simple actually. Its any regulation where the thing you desire to control ceases to be the thing it was.</p>
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