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	Comments on: The financial crisis: why the hush-up about the Democrat role?	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Drew		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87111</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Drew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:28:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87111</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hmmmmmm...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmmmmm&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Vince P		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87078</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vince P]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 01:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87078</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m surprised a few regulars haven&#039;t educated themselves on this yet. 

The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 is the  primary culprit and Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac are the chief enablers.


This is a  timeline of the history of Fannie Mae problems in the 90s.  

Each item is a link to a story at this main link

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121599777668249845.html?mod=article-outset-box

Paulson&#039;s Fannie Test 07/15/08 — Does Hank Paulson want to leave the U.S. financial system better than he found it? That&#039;s his test in the wake of his commitment to use taxpayer money to rescue Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
 

Fannie Mae Ugly 07/12/08 — Investors continued to flee Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac almost as frantically as the political class tried to reassure everybody there was nothing to worry about.
 

The Price of Fannie Mae 07/10/08 — It&#039;s time Americans understood the price they could soon pay for the Beltway&#039;s confidence game with these high-risk &quot;government-sponsored enterprises.&quot;
 

Too Political to Fail 04/21/08 — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac aren&#039;t held to the same standards of accountability as everyone else.
 

Fannie Mayhem 11/20/07 — Chuck Schumer is lucky Congress ignored his idea that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should ride to the rescue of the housing market.
 

Fannie More 10/23/07 — Barney Frank and Chuck Schumer have come up with a proposal that would increase the risk to taxpayers from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
 

Fannie to the Rescue? 09/29/07 — Fannie and Freddie went up the Hill to fetch a pail of money.
 

Freddie Krueger Mac 05/10/07 — Just when you think they&#039;re defeated, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac arise in Congress to kill any attempt to clean up their dangerous habits.
 

The Fannie Tax 04/12/07 — Democrat Barney Frank and the Bush Administration seem to have found common ground on new rules for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Naturally, there&#039;s a catch.
 

Memo to Fannie 06/14/06 — A joke in Washington these days goes like this: &quot;What&#039;s the difference between Enron and Fannie Mae? Answer: The guys at Enron have been convicted.&quot;
 

Freddie&#039;s Friends on the Hill 04/27/06 — The Federal Election Commission sheds some light on how Freddie Mac rewards its friends.
 

Fannie Mae&#039;s House 10/25/05 — Every Congressional session can be counted on to produce its share of bad bills. But the &quot;reform&quot; bill for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is in a class of its own.
 

Fannie&#039;s Friends on the Hill 05/09/05 — Congress finally seemed ready to protect taxpayers from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Then Republican Mike Oxley decided to ride to their rescue.
 

Fannie Turns a Page 12/23/04 — Fannie Mae — a slick, semiprivate firm operating with the patronage of politicians — is the kind of institution one still expects to find in a country like France.
 

Fannie the Centaur 12/17/04 — Understanding their half-man, half-beast nature is crucial to fixing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in the wake of their recent financial scandals.
 

Fannie Mae Liberals 10/14/04 — There were many moments of high entertainment during the House hearings on Fannie Mae&#039;s creative accounting. But our favorite was the Mister Magoo performance given by Barney Frank (D., Massachusetts).
 

Fannie Mae Enron? 10/04/04 — The company was cooking the books. Big time.
 

Fannie Uncovered 09/23/04 — The housing-finance giant has been engaging in some accounting funny business.
 

Fannie&#039;s Risky Business 02/25/04 — Alan Greenspan puts his credibility behind the cause of reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
 

Christmas for Fannie Mae 12/23/03 — The Federal Reserve Board releases a new staff study about the impact of taxpayer subsidies for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
 

White House Fannie Pack 11/11/03 — White House chief economist N. Gregory Mankiw dares to tell the truth about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The mortgage giants were not amused, which means we&#039;re getting somewhere.
 

Fannie Takes the Hill 10/09/03 — When the House of Representatives can&#039;t get even a modest regulatory bill out of committee, the dangers of Fannie Mae become clear in reality.
 

Speaking Truth to Fannie 03/12/03 — The president of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis warns of a potential crisis arising from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
 

Fan and Fred Get the Business 02/19/03 — The year has not started auspiciously for the two mortgage-finance behemoths.
 

Fannie Mae&#039;s Risky Business 09/23/02 — We&#039;ve been suggesting that Fannie Mae was exposed to too much interest-rate risk. All of a sudden investors seem to agree with us.
 

Fannie Capitulates, Sort Of 07/15/02 — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac end months of resistance, stonewalling and downright crankiness and agree to register their common stock with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
 

Fannie&#039;s Inside Info 07/01/02 — Even in this post-Enron world, Fan and Fred do not provide as much information about these securities as private mortgage lenders do.
 

Inside Fannie 03/19/02 — Fan and Fred don&#039;t function like other companies. They&#039;re allowed to pile up debt, implicitly guaranteed by taxpayers, without being held to even the minimum of corporate governance standards.
 

Frantic Fannie 02/28/02 — Companies taking on so much risk and debt, and backed by taxpayers, ought to be more transparent in what they tell the world.
 

Fannie Mae Enron? 02/20/02 — Fan and Fred look like poorly run hedge funds: lots of leverage and snarkily hedged risk. Does the word Enron ring any bells?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m surprised a few regulars haven&#8217;t educated themselves on this yet. </p>
<p>The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 is the  primary culprit and Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac are the chief enablers.</p>
<p>This is a  timeline of the history of Fannie Mae problems in the 90s.  </p>
<p>Each item is a link to a story at this main link</p>
<p><a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121599777668249845.html?mod=article-outset-box" rel="nofollow ugc">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121599777668249845.html?mod=article-outset-box</a></p>
<p>Paulson&#8217;s Fannie Test 07/15/08 — Does Hank Paulson want to leave the U.S. financial system better than he found it? That&#8217;s his test in the wake of his commitment to use taxpayer money to rescue Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.</p>
<p>Fannie Mae Ugly 07/12/08 — Investors continued to flee Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac almost as frantically as the political class tried to reassure everybody there was nothing to worry about.</p>
<p>The Price of Fannie Mae 07/10/08 — It&#8217;s time Americans understood the price they could soon pay for the Beltway&#8217;s confidence game with these high-risk &#8220;government-sponsored enterprises.&#8221;</p>
<p>Too Political to Fail 04/21/08 — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac aren&#8217;t held to the same standards of accountability as everyone else.</p>
<p>Fannie Mayhem 11/20/07 — Chuck Schumer is lucky Congress ignored his idea that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should ride to the rescue of the housing market.</p>
<p>Fannie More 10/23/07 — Barney Frank and Chuck Schumer have come up with a proposal that would increase the risk to taxpayers from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.</p>
<p>Fannie to the Rescue? 09/29/07 — Fannie and Freddie went up the Hill to fetch a pail of money.</p>
<p>Freddie Krueger Mac 05/10/07 — Just when you think they&#8217;re defeated, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac arise in Congress to kill any attempt to clean up their dangerous habits.</p>
<p>The Fannie Tax 04/12/07 — Democrat Barney Frank and the Bush Administration seem to have found common ground on new rules for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Naturally, there&#8217;s a catch.</p>
<p>Memo to Fannie 06/14/06 — A joke in Washington these days goes like this: &#8220;What&#8217;s the difference between Enron and Fannie Mae? Answer: The guys at Enron have been convicted.&#8221;</p>
<p>Freddie&#8217;s Friends on the Hill 04/27/06 — The Federal Election Commission sheds some light on how Freddie Mac rewards its friends.</p>
<p>Fannie Mae&#8217;s House 10/25/05 — Every Congressional session can be counted on to produce its share of bad bills. But the &#8220;reform&#8221; bill for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is in a class of its own.</p>
<p>Fannie&#8217;s Friends on the Hill 05/09/05 — Congress finally seemed ready to protect taxpayers from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Then Republican Mike Oxley decided to ride to their rescue.</p>
<p>Fannie Turns a Page 12/23/04 — Fannie Mae — a slick, semiprivate firm operating with the patronage of politicians — is the kind of institution one still expects to find in a country like France.</p>
<p>Fannie the Centaur 12/17/04 — Understanding their half-man, half-beast nature is crucial to fixing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in the wake of their recent financial scandals.</p>
<p>Fannie Mae Liberals 10/14/04 — There were many moments of high entertainment during the House hearings on Fannie Mae&#8217;s creative accounting. But our favorite was the Mister Magoo performance given by Barney Frank (D., Massachusetts).</p>
<p>Fannie Mae Enron? 10/04/04 — The company was cooking the books. Big time.</p>
<p>Fannie Uncovered 09/23/04 — The housing-finance giant has been engaging in some accounting funny business.</p>
<p>Fannie&#8217;s Risky Business 02/25/04 — Alan Greenspan puts his credibility behind the cause of reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.</p>
<p>Christmas for Fannie Mae 12/23/03 — The Federal Reserve Board releases a new staff study about the impact of taxpayer subsidies for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.</p>
<p>White House Fannie Pack 11/11/03 — White House chief economist N. Gregory Mankiw dares to tell the truth about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The mortgage giants were not amused, which means we&#8217;re getting somewhere.</p>
<p>Fannie Takes the Hill 10/09/03 — When the House of Representatives can&#8217;t get even a modest regulatory bill out of committee, the dangers of Fannie Mae become clear in reality.</p>
<p>Speaking Truth to Fannie 03/12/03 — The president of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis warns of a potential crisis arising from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.</p>
<p>Fan and Fred Get the Business 02/19/03 — The year has not started auspiciously for the two mortgage-finance behemoths.</p>
<p>Fannie Mae&#8217;s Risky Business 09/23/02 — We&#8217;ve been suggesting that Fannie Mae was exposed to too much interest-rate risk. All of a sudden investors seem to agree with us.</p>
<p>Fannie Capitulates, Sort Of 07/15/02 — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac end months of resistance, stonewalling and downright crankiness and agree to register their common stock with the Securities and Exchange Commission.</p>
<p>Fannie&#8217;s Inside Info 07/01/02 — Even in this post-Enron world, Fan and Fred do not provide as much information about these securities as private mortgage lenders do.</p>
<p>Inside Fannie 03/19/02 — Fan and Fred don&#8217;t function like other companies. They&#8217;re allowed to pile up debt, implicitly guaranteed by taxpayers, without being held to even the minimum of corporate governance standards.</p>
<p>Frantic Fannie 02/28/02 — Companies taking on so much risk and debt, and backed by taxpayers, ought to be more transparent in what they tell the world.</p>
<p>Fannie Mae Enron? 02/20/02 — Fan and Fred look like poorly run hedge funds: lots of leverage and snarkily hedged risk. Does the word Enron ring any bells?</p>
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		<title>
		By: expat		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87075</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[expat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87075</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Occam&#039;s Beard,

I think that groups like ACORN did quite a bit of pressuring too.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Occam&#8217;s Beard,</p>
<p>I think that groups like ACORN did quite a bit of pressuring too.</p>
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		<title>
		By: douglas		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87073</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[douglas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87073</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Of course, lost in this is that in the end, it didn&#039;t do low-income people seeking first time homes any favors.  They either bought a house they ended up not being able to afford, or they watched housing prices go up detached from the rate of inflation (because of artificial demand increase) and so detached from wages.   So, even if done with good intentions, it completely failed, and hurt a lot of people to boot, many of whom had nothing to do with this mess.

As for McCain, I think it&#039;s a combination of-
-Putting country first.
-wanting to solve problems first and play politics second
-his repeated tactic of giving enough rope so they can hang themselves as things come out later (as they do, eventually), or he can bring the attack later and get them not only for the initial sin, but the cover up or misleading statement later.

I only hope his timing is correct, and there is enough time left.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, lost in this is that in the end, it didn&#8217;t do low-income people seeking first time homes any favors.  They either bought a house they ended up not being able to afford, or they watched housing prices go up detached from the rate of inflation (because of artificial demand increase) and so detached from wages.   So, even if done with good intentions, it completely failed, and hurt a lot of people to boot, many of whom had nothing to do with this mess.</p>
<p>As for McCain, I think it&#8217;s a combination of-<br />
-Putting country first.<br />
-wanting to solve problems first and play politics second<br />
-his repeated tactic of giving enough rope so they can hang themselves as things come out later (as they do, eventually), or he can bring the attack later and get them not only for the initial sin, but the cover up or misleading statement later.</p>
<p>I only hope his timing is correct, and there is enough time left.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Occam's Beard		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87066</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Occam's Beard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87066</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Truth, you&#039;re right, I misunderstood you. My apologies.

Fannie and Freddie, as I understand it, didn&#039;t want to do their homework; they pressured lenders to use &quot;flexible&quot; standards of creditworthiness (e.g., count welfare and unemployment benefits as &quot;income&quot;) because they wanted to increase minority homeownership.

Which they did. For a while...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truth, you&#8217;re right, I misunderstood you. My apologies.</p>
<p>Fannie and Freddie, as I understand it, didn&#8217;t want to do their homework; they pressured lenders to use &#8220;flexible&#8221; standards of creditworthiness (e.g., count welfare and unemployment benefits as &#8220;income&#8221;) because they wanted to increase minority homeownership.</p>
<p>Which they did. For a while&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Truth		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87065</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Truth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87065</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Occam&#039;s Beard
&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;The third party buyers of this toxic paper didn’t think they needed to do their homework,&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

I think you miss my point here,, let put in this way what I meant of homework by Fannie and Freddie not the third Party customer.

Understandably from the end of your comment why they didn’t do their homework.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Occam&#8217;s Beard<br />
<i><b>The third party buyers of this toxic paper didn’t think they needed to do their homework,</b></i></p>
<p>I think you miss my point here,, let put in this way what I meant of homework by Fannie and Freddie not the third Party customer.</p>
<p>Understandably from the end of your comment why they didn’t do their homework.</p>
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		<title>
		By: gcotharn		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87064</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gcotharn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87064</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[re Repubs against regulation

Repubs are against overmuch regulation of &lt;b&gt;private&lt;/b&gt; industry.

DEMS are against regulating quasi government agencies such as Fannie/Freddie.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re Repubs against regulation</p>
<p>Repubs are against overmuch regulation of <b>private</b> industry.</p>
<p>DEMS are against regulating quasi government agencies such as Fannie/Freddie.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Occam's Beard		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87062</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Occam's Beard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87062</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;I don’t sure what I can say, but let take it from the start insurance companies they have main focuses on their money and made many adjustments to their polices due to the market risks and customer history, so where their homework for those years?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Truth, this cuts to the heart of the matter. The third party buyers of this toxic paper didn&#039;t think they &lt;i&gt;needed&lt;/i&gt; to do their homework, because Fannie and Freddie were &quot;government sponsored entities,&quot; and therefore were thought to be backed by the government. 

If they&#039;d been unambiguously private, they&#039;d have faced a lot more scrutiny, and gone under long ago.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I don’t sure what I can say, but let take it from the start insurance companies they have main focuses on their money and made many adjustments to their polices due to the market risks and customer history, so where their homework for those years?</p></blockquote>
<p>Truth, this cuts to the heart of the matter. The third party buyers of this toxic paper didn&#8217;t think they <i>needed</i> to do their homework, because Fannie and Freddie were &#8220;government sponsored entities,&#8221; and therefore were thought to be backed by the government. </p>
<p>If they&#8217;d been unambiguously private, they&#8217;d have faced a lot more scrutiny, and gone under long ago.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Truth		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87060</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Truth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87060</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;The problem is that the government pushed for lending to poor people who couldn’t afford houses.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

Yes agree that as Bill Clinton did, what about GWB, did he indorse those regulations by Bill Clinton?

GWB have 8 years in WH, Republican had 6 years control of the senate, what the done during these years?


&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;then sold them to third party lenders, who had no insight into the initial borrowers.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

I don’t sure what I can say, but let take it from the start insurance companies they have main focuses on their money  and made many adjustments to their polices due to the market risks and customer history, so where their homework for those years?

What could be blamed here both politicians and reddie and Fannie  and other is the transparency in their work.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i><b>The problem is that the government pushed for lending to poor people who couldn’t afford houses.</b></i></p>
<p>Yes agree that as Bill Clinton did, what about GWB, did he indorse those regulations by Bill Clinton?</p>
<p>GWB have 8 years in WH, Republican had 6 years control of the senate, what the done during these years?</p>
<p><i><b>then sold them to third party lenders, who had no insight into the initial borrowers.</b></i></p>
<p>I don’t sure what I can say, but let take it from the start insurance companies they have main focuses on their money  and made many adjustments to their polices due to the market risks and customer history, so where their homework for those years?</p>
<p>What could be blamed here both politicians and reddie and Fannie  and other is the transparency in their work.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Occam's Beard		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87057</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Occam's Beard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/09/29/the-financial-crisis-why-the-hush-up-about-the-democrat-role/#comment-87057</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[DonS, I agree. I&#039;d presumed that the blame was more evenly apportioned, but on looking into it, I&#039;ve changed my mind.

I think the rot runs deeper than just Democratic policies, and indeed reflects the rot of Democratic philosophy: that everyone is entitled to whatever he wants, and doesn&#039;t have to work for it; just wanting it is good enough.

That&#039;s a fundamental, collective character defect in their party.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DonS, I agree. I&#8217;d presumed that the blame was more evenly apportioned, but on looking into it, I&#8217;ve changed my mind.</p>
<p>I think the rot runs deeper than just Democratic policies, and indeed reflects the rot of Democratic philosophy: that everyone is entitled to whatever he wants, and doesn&#8217;t have to work for it; just wanting it is good enough.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a fundamental, collective character defect in their party.</p>
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