You miss the most important point of reality with these people. They will eventually come to the peace table temporarily if they can’t achieve their goals violently and immediately. Arafat somewhat frequently alluded to the “prophet’s” strategy early in islamic history, when mo secured treaties with the Meccan Jews (Treaty of Hudabaya (Sp?)), only to break them, and massacre them, when he was strong enough. It is an implicit aspect of islamist/jihadi long-term strategy. Convince the Carters, Obamas, Bushs and Rices to manipulate the Israelis into a ’67 border plan, Oslo or similar, land for peace, blah, blah, where they lose essential depth of defense. Similar to the treaty with Egypt, Sadat and Sinai, “enjoy” a sinister and stone cold peace as long as billion dollar American payoff money is made annually to Egypt, but beware when the current dictator’s regime, like when the palis elected hamas in a popular vote, falls to a democratically elected islamist regime; It is, and always has been the reality of that treaty (another Carter illusion); In 2 or 3 decades when the equation has changed technologically, economically, and demographically the stage is set for another and significantly more successful and painful war against the Jews… You have to be naive as hell to not realize this is the final word in reality with these people… I defended Bush and idealized Rice (touting her for possible POTUS) for several years against my leftard acquaintances and family, and now am incredulous at the politically motivated betrayal that is obviously happening. Watching the dims and Bush & Rice competing for who can sell the lies and illusions to make an illusory and temporary peace the fastest is a real eye opener, even for me at sixty…

“Jimmy and half the country already live in that place sort of like Alice in Wonderland, but here it’s Leftardland, where things are whatever you want, whenever or however you need to define them, politically “

Yep, thats how it is. Thats why its impossible to talk to them. Reality can be what ever they choose it to be when ever they need it to be.

We used to have this thing in our country by which we come to understand why a thing cannot be true. I think we called it reason. I think adults used to practice this at one time but it fell out of use in the latter ’60’s & ’70’s. Now only a few of us practice this. You can say that some of us “cling” to it “bitterly”.

Like all useful idiots, they don’t believe it until it is their arse in the gas chambers and execution scaffolds.