* No. Our opposition should make sense to NEOCONS!! We are not BIG GOVERNMENT, and we see political agendas all over the current vaccination schedule…let’s take Hepatitis B, for example…How does someone typically contract Hep B? When you consider the Risk Pool for Hep B, does a one-hour-old infant fit that bill? Ah, no……..well, only if her mother is an intravenous drug user or sexually promiscuous. The problem is that medical professionals cannot ask the screening questions that would define the risk pool, so all child-bearing women must be treated alike. I had been in a mutually monogamous (can you say VIRGIN wedding?) relationship (read “marriage”) for eight years when my son was born, and had never taken any illegal drug/substance into my body (especially not via an infected needle…). So, did my son need antibiotic ointment slathered all over his newborn eyes at the moment of birth for my “possible” STDs, or need a big ole dose of Hep B vacc as a welcome into this world? Heck no. (I’d like to say h-e-double hockey-sticks-no, but having not posted here before, I do not know how “family friendly” this space is meant to be.). Vaccinations, in the case of Hep B, or antibiotics slathered on a newborn, are NOT family-friendly.
* How far are you willing to take this argument? Conservatives always put barriers around government activities with the “Slippery Slope” warning…and I think we are already sliding pretty fast…because our innocent young daughters are now expected to receive the HPV vacc long before any parent would DARE hope their daughters be sexually involved…and HPV is a…sexually transmitted DISEASE, with the devastating potential aftermath of cervical cancer! So, now we will, again, treat preteens and tweens with a lowest common denominator philosophy (for the “greater good”), like mothers who just…(gasp) gave birth. Giving birth? OH NO! You might give your baby an illness through your vagina! Let’s make sure not…we’ll give him a shot & some ointment. Whew. Now it’s all good…
* For us, even as we looked at the vax we did not oppose for a political reason, I did not like the clustering of vacc for little ones. If a child did experience a vaccination-related illness/reaction, how was the culprit to be identified? In our state/region, we could not find pediatricians who could administer individual vaccinations for Pertussis, for example, a frightening and often debilitating illness. So, was I willing to take the slim risk that he might catch that nasty whooping cough? Or TRUST (we would consider this a major leap of faith) that nothing would/could possibly go awry by shooting him with DTaP, three vax in one…given, by the way, at the same time as Rota, Hib, PCV and IPV…
* When your physician prescribes you a new medication, (s)he should always check the updated drug interaction charts…and if you are on a handful of meds, there is always a concern of over-medicating, or cross-medicating…and yet, a 2-month-old infant is expected, at their tiny weight of maybe 12 pounds, to internalize HepB’s second dose, the Rotavirus vacc, DTaP (as stated, this is Diphtheria, Tetanus AND Peruses. It seems like ONE vacc, but it’s three-in-one), Hib (Haemophilus influenzae type b), PCV (Pneumococcal), and inactivated poliovirus (IPV). Eight doses…twelve pounds…still being nurtured very closely by momma, hopefully nursing, sleeping 12-15 hours a day, and…getting poked with needles…(in my naturally-minded mind, that was a big disconnect).

In my opinion, (and in my study of rhetoric), dialogue deteriorates once name-calling ensues. It seems a healthier, more open discussion can transpire without intolerance leading the way. I have spent hours reading all of your posts, intrigued & fascinated by the perspectives presented, and disgusted by the arrogant insults, which, to me, are the least intelligent responses posted. No booing & hissing is necessary–just tell me you disagree and why.

We are far from idiots. We are not stupid. We are not insane. You still may still think I am foolish after you read my post, but please, don’t call me a fool.

While this discussion line has veered a bit off course, focusing more on issues of autism in general (which all admit has not been verifiably connected to vaccination), rather than on neo-neocon’s original post, which was a censure of the non-vaccinating parents, I’d like to address her original diatribe.

I am a Crunchy Conservative. I am not a tie-dyed T-shirt wearing Liberal, as some of you consider the non-vaccinating among us. We are highly educated, and well-informed students/graduates of communication, history and politics.

We are not Big Government thinkers. In fact, we see evidence that government lies…a lot…& often…& for its own protection. Don’t you??

Sometimes I think that might be a GOOD thing for the short-term…but mostly…NOT SO MUCH!!!!

* We were assured, as pregnant women in the early 21st Century, that mercury/thimiserol was no longer being included in the manufacturing of vaccines.
* What was hidden (later revealed) was that those sinister products were still on the shelves of American pediatricians, not to expire until JULY 2003.
* My son was born in April 2003, but it was not until 2005 that I learned of the July expiration date…delayed notification…
* Even with the first “assurance” given, we opted not to vacc for a number of reasons…and then felt confident we’d chosen well…for now (in other words, we are not part of some rigid dogmatism on this topic).
* At nine-months of age our son hit high temps, but had low WBC (white blood cell counts). He was diagnosed “neutropenic.” We spent 5 days “in a bubble” separated from any non-medical humanity as test-upon-test was forced on him (most involved needles…), including bone marrow biopsy to r.o. leukemia. Six weeks more of CBC’s following his release from the hospital, and his illness resolved as mysteriously as it had appeared: random “viral anomaly,” we were told.
* IF, DURING THE DISCOVERY OF HIS ILLNESS, HE HAD RECEIVED HIS SCHEDULED VAX, we might have had a far-worse case on our hands…even the hematologist confessed to this. Why? Because my son’s body wasn’t capable of fighting just about anything (but we would not yet have known that at the time of vaccination)! He had such low counts, he was vulnerable to the slightest hint of illness…a vacc with a live attenuated virus might certainly have knocked him over…and I wonder, might the result have been somewhat autistic in presentation…? While I understand that the vacc administered at his age would not (likely?) have been live…it still leaves me wondering…might other children reacting negatively to vaccinations be getting their shots at a particularly vulnerable time, like, say, our son’s situation, only it is hidden from view b/c it is all happening internally?
* I wonder this b/c my husband has Asperger’s Syndrome–(on the Autism Spectrum). So does Bill Gates, BTW. So, supposedly, might have Albert Einstein. Al Gore is a great example of Asperger’s…HIGH-FUNCTIONING people who lack certain connections to human experience…known for their blank stares, their ability to see things through a dominantly logical filter, their inability to pick up on social cues…a long list of traits that make them brilliant & myopic, and therefore quite attractive to Girl-Geeks like me…(grins).
* His mother & uncle are also on the autism spectrum.
* WOULD THAT HAVE MADE OUR SON MORE POSSIBLY SUSCEPTIBLE TO A VACC-INJURY-AUTISM-RELATED-ILLNESS? If he has a genetic propensity for autism, might it have surfaced if we had NOT vax’d? Asperger’s boards seem to indicate a common testimony to family lines of autism (of the AS variety)…fathers and daughters, and so on…
* We never wanted to “find out” through trial…and possible egregious error. (Our support & love to those on here who are living with autism every day).
* Our oppositions are not against all vaccinations, as we most certainly understand what has been stated here as the historical significance of vaccination in the virtual disappearance of so many life-threatening, or life-disrupting illnesses…
* No. Our opposition should make sense to NEOCONS!! We are not BIG GOVERNMENT, and we see political agendas all over the current vaccination schedule…let’s take Hepatitis B, for example…How does someone typically contract Hep B? When you consider the Risk Pool for Hep B, does a one-hour-old infant fit that bill? Ah, no……..well, only if her mother is an intravenous drug user or sexually promiscuous. The problem is that medical professionals cannot ask the screening questions that would define the risk pool, so all child-bearing women must be treated alike. I had been in a mutually monogamous (can you say VIRGIN wedding?) relationship (read “marriage”) for eight years when my son was born, and had never taken any illegal drug/substance into my body (especially not via an infected needle…). So, did my son need antibiotic ointment slathered all over his newborn eyes at the moment of birth for my “possible” STDs, or need a big ole dose of Hep B vacc as a welcome into this world? Heck no. (second dose, the Rotavirus vacc, DTaP (as stated, this is Diphtheria, Tetanus AND Peruses. It seems like ONE vacc, but it’s three-in-one), Hib (Haemophilus influenzae type b), PCV (Pneumococcal), and inactivated poliovirus (IPV). Eight doses…twelve pounds…still being nurtured very closely by momma, hopefully nursing, sleeping 12-15 hours a day, and…getting poked with needles…(in my naturally-minded mind, that was a big disconnect).

I think many of you are speaking about vaccinations generally, but not, necessarily, aware of the current reality of dosage schedules. At the one-year check-up, that same child who has now had 3 doses of Hep B, 3 of Rota, 3 of DTaP, 3 of Hib & PCV, & 3 of IPV, takes an additional Hib, PCV, IPV, and adds influenza, MMR (←another 3-vax-in-one), Varicella, and HepA.

To me, as a mother, the risks we were willing to take, with autism in our family history, conservativism as our worldview, and the actual current known risks of those illnesses/diseases we were being asked to vaccinate against, determined our path. We just were not willing to vaccinate on the whole. Because our politics are so closely woven to our religious beliefs, as well (not mythologies, but matters of faith), we are able in our state to claim a Religious Exemption.

Those here who advocate the State forcing vaccinations need to grab a hold of yourselves! Why are you reading anything neocon?? This is a free republic. And, if you believe in (that is also “faith”) the vaccinations your children or grandchildren have had, then why do you fear us so very much? It is, in fact, the vaccinated who have suffered from those outbreaks…so maybe your security blanket is more like a safety net, with some big holes…

We are always reading on this topic; always wanting to make the right choice. We simply wanted to DELAY vaccinations, and SEPARATE them. That is a much more difficult coercion with a pediatrician than denying all together (I sign a waiver, we’re done). Since our children have never attended daycare or preschool (we homeschool), vaccination hasn’t hindered them yet. My son plays in our community Little League. Both kids are amazingly healthy…I mean, they should be a mess, right?

No, no, no. Autism is scary, but it is not a lifetime condition. Children are recovering if they are caught early and get the right therapy. I know children that were diagnosed with severe autism that are now indistinguishable from typical children. My own son is on that path. There is hope. There is hope.

My husband gave up after that. I’d be interested in taking his to a psychiatrist who didn’t know about the previous diagnosis, and who was an expert in speech pathology, if we could find such a person.

Thank you, I appreciate the compliment. I had very dedicated teachers and an understanding family.

I wonder if your son was mis-categorized? Your son might have a language disorder as opposed to autism. Have you ever had him looked at by a psychiatrist who did not know of the previous diagnosis? (i.e. an independent second opinion)

Yes, my son does sometimes act as if he came here from another planet. The woman who ran a bakery I used to take him to called her “Little Martian.” I am glad to see you appear to have adjusted very well, and can write such intelligent and interesting posts.

DuMaurier-Smith

Yes, you’re surprised, I’m surprised, your psychiatrist friend is surprised—unfortunately, the psychiatrists we took him to out here, and the California Psy-Care Center have latched onto the autism diagnosis, and latched onto it they will stay. The “Autism spectrum” is now so broad that just about anybody can get onto it. I do agree that, insofar as language goes, he does show some autistic characteristics: repeating back what you say to him, talking in a sing-song voice when he does talk, extremely limited vocabulary, but, as far as his personality goes, he is cheerful, enjoys human contact, laughs, shows empathy with others and seems very aware of what’s going on around him.
In fact, ever since he was attacked by another autistic child, who resented his coming too close to him, we’ve tried to arrange it so that he is never put into a special ed class that’s made up mostly, or entirely, of other autistic kids. We were afraid he’d just get mauled, because he’s too friendly.

Honestly, I’m getting tired of trying to explain the situation to medical experts though. If we point out the ways in which we think he’s not autistic, we’re in denial. If we say there is something wrong with him, and it might be related to this current upsurge in kids with language disabilities, it’s all in our heads. If we look for help, it never quite pans out. Usually, the response is “We don’t know what it is, really, but it looks as if it’s along the autism spectrum.”

I believe in progress too. After my son’s problems, an aunt dying of pancreatic cancer and some other relatives falling prey to Alzheimer’s—I still believe, but I confess my faith is being a bit shaken.

I know a lot about autism. There was a classroom for the severely affected a few rooms down from mine, all of us in the part of the school for Special Ed. I also remember my folks going to IEP meetings. I was in a class primarily for the moderately autistic kids for a few years. Even my classmates and I had plenty of trouble understanding social situations and interacting with the normal world. I can imagine some of what it is like for your son – a bit like living in a completely alien society.

The spectrum of disorders called autism is fairly broad, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there is more than one cause involved. As for therapy, I really don’t know they would approach it. All of the pharmaceutical treatments for various disorders are based on a fairly simple increase or decrease in neurotransmitters like acetylcholine (more for Alzheimer’s, less for Parkinson’s), dopamine (more for Parkinson’s, less for Psychosis), serotonin (more for depression), etc. I’d be really surprised if autism would be correctable with such a simple approach. Also, I’d imagine these drugs have been tried before.

Have you tried looking at the primary literature for research articles on autism? http://www.pubmed.com will get you at least the abstract. Perhaps scientists are researching it, but the keep hitting a brick wall. After all, there are several forms of cancer that are nearly always fatal, like pancreatic cancer. Alzheimer’s is still only slightly treatable and 100% lethal. Mad cow / CJD is still 100% lethal.

If there is an epidemic of autism, or something very like autism, then what is causing it, and can anything be done about it?

If it’s an increase in diagnosis, this raises troubling questions about the medical industry’s competence: are, say, educable mentally retarded kids being thrown in with the truly autistic, because it’s just easier to lump them all in together? While some autistic children are retarded, the fact is that autism, and retardation, are different problems and can’t be treated the same way. (And if it’s something new, we may need another way of handling it.)

Either way it’s troubling, and I’m afraid I have little faith in the experts being able to sort it out, or come up with a solution.