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	Comments on: Why did it take so long to install General Petraeus?	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 04:28:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Bugs		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-45118</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bugs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-45118</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Does anyone know of a good general study of the relationships between Army commanders and their countries&#039; leaders?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone know of a good general study of the relationships between Army commanders and their countries&#8217; leaders?</p>
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		<title>
		By: SDN		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-45030</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SDN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-45030</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oh, and Bugs, I think you&#039;ll find that most of the small wars work was being done by the Marines and other elite forces, not the &quot;average&quot; military personnel (who are much better than the rest of us).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and Bugs, I think you&#8217;ll find that most of the small wars work was being done by the Marines and other elite forces, not the &#8220;average&#8221; military personnel (who are much better than the rest of us).</p>
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		<title>
		By: SDN		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-45029</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SDN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-45029</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Bugs, the central problem is that the skills required of a successful peacetime commander and those required of a successful wartime commander don&#039;t have a lot of overlap (IMHO). Case in point, Patton. While he was stationed in the Philippines(sp) one of his efficiency reports supposedly stated: &quot;This officer will be invaluable in time of war but is a pestilential nuisance in time of peace.&quot;

And it takes a while, especially in a war where not many generals are being killed, to weed out the political peacetime commanders, like Clark and Zinni.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bugs, the central problem is that the skills required of a successful peacetime commander and those required of a successful wartime commander don&#8217;t have a lot of overlap (IMHO). Case in point, Patton. While he was stationed in the Philippines(sp) one of his efficiency reports supposedly stated: &#8220;This officer will be invaluable in time of war but is a pestilential nuisance in time of peace.&#8221;</p>
<p>And it takes a while, especially in a war where not many generals are being killed, to weed out the political peacetime commanders, like Clark and Zinni.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bugs		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-44994</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bugs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-44994</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I can also second, indirectly, what Dudley said above. Dad went to the Naval War College in 79, and from what I could tell they studied everything &lt;i&gt;except&lt;/i&gt; counterinsurgency/small war stuff. The entire curriculum seemed to be designed to prepare officers for the day when the Soviets charged through the Fulda Gap. He went to a NATO exercise a few years later - same deal. Necessary at the time, obviously. But I wonder if the DoD was also shying away from anymore Vietnams.

I&#039;m not sure who, if anyone, was looking at small wars at the time. I guess we did ok in Grenada and Panama, so maybe somebody was. Where was Petraeus at this time?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can also second, indirectly, what Dudley said above. Dad went to the Naval War College in 79, and from what I could tell they studied everything <i>except</i> counterinsurgency/small war stuff. The entire curriculum seemed to be designed to prepare officers for the day when the Soviets charged through the Fulda Gap. He went to a NATO exercise a few years later &#8211; same deal. Necessary at the time, obviously. But I wonder if the DoD was also shying away from anymore Vietnams.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure who, if anyone, was looking at small wars at the time. I guess we did ok in Grenada and Panama, so maybe somebody was. Where was Petraeus at this time?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Huan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-44966</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Huan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-44966</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[as already suggested
1. Petraeus was busy retraining the iraqi arm forces as well as laying the foundation for the surge.
2. and that a significant portion of his success stem from the Sunni getting sick and disgusted with al qaeda. and this take some time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as already suggested<br />
1. Petraeus was busy retraining the iraqi arm forces as well as laying the foundation for the surge.<br />
2. and that a significant portion of his success stem from the Sunni getting sick and disgusted with al qaeda. and this take some time.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-44964</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-44964</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;One group of a half-dozen fully manned, armed, and fueled APCs using combined arms tactics could wipe out the COIN forces in any town before the any backup could scramble&lt;/b&gt;

Americans are better at insurgencies than the Baathists. Meaning if Americans were outnumbered up against heavy armor, Americans would do much better than Baathists would have done if they were outnumbered up against US Army armor.

There were no regular forces after Saddam implemented the insurgency plan. He put all his eggs in one basket, and eventually ended up with the spider hole.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>One group of a half-dozen fully manned, armed, and fueled APCs using combined arms tactics could wipe out the COIN forces in any town before the any backup could scramble</b></p>
<p>Americans are better at insurgencies than the Baathists. Meaning if Americans were outnumbered up against heavy armor, Americans would do much better than Baathists would have done if they were outnumbered up against US Army armor.</p>
<p>There were no regular forces after Saddam implemented the insurgency plan. He put all his eggs in one basket, and eventually ended up with the spider hole.</p>
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		<title>
		By: The Unknown Blogger		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-44955</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Unknown Blogger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 19:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-44955</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Trimegistus wrote:

&lt;i&gt;You’re doing exactly what I complained of! Those generals may have been critical of the conduct of the war, but you and the rest of the antiwar crowd try to co-opt any criticism as “proof” that we’re doomed to defeat.&lt;/i&gt;

Trimegistus, I wish I were you! What an active and wholly self-contained fantasy life you must lead!

To counter your claim that &quot;everyone&quot; who criticized Rumsfeld was a traitor who wanted us to lose in Iraq, I provided a list of US Generals of distinguished service who were openly critical of Rumsfeld and demanded his resignation, some since 2003.

My &quot;co-opting&quot; of that criticism as proof we&#039;re doomed to defeat, and why one should have anything to do with the other in the first place, is entirely in your head.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trimegistus wrote:</p>
<p><i>You’re doing exactly what I complained of! Those generals may have been critical of the conduct of the war, but you and the rest of the antiwar crowd try to co-opt any criticism as “proof” that we’re doomed to defeat.</i></p>
<p>Trimegistus, I wish I were you! What an active and wholly self-contained fantasy life you must lead!</p>
<p>To counter your claim that &#8220;everyone&#8221; who criticized Rumsfeld was a traitor who wanted us to lose in Iraq, I provided a list of US Generals of distinguished service who were openly critical of Rumsfeld and demanded his resignation, some since 2003.</p>
<p>My &#8220;co-opting&#8221; of that criticism as proof we&#8217;re doomed to defeat, and why one should have anything to do with the other in the first place, is entirely in your head.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bugs		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-44953</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bugs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 19:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-44953</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Why did it take Lincoln so long to install Gen. Grant? How do you explain George McClellan and Henry Halleck?

Maybe, like Lincoln, we&#039;ll have to go through several generals before we find the right one for the present war. And it will benefit us to remember that, whoever he is, he will probably &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; be the right one for the &lt;i&gt;next&lt;/i&gt; war.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why did it take Lincoln so long to install Gen. Grant? How do you explain George McClellan and Henry Halleck?</p>
<p>Maybe, like Lincoln, we&#8217;ll have to go through several generals before we find the right one for the present war. And it will benefit us to remember that, whoever he is, he will probably <i>not</i> be the right one for the <i>next</i> war.</p>
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		<title>
		By: njcommuter		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-44950</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[njcommuter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-44950</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Embellishment and exaggeration they may be, but they are believed, not just told.  (In this sense they are the opposite of propaganda.)  We did have to create the conditions that allowed the beliefs to change and await the actions of our enemy that made the change happen.

We created the conditions by behavior that was almost always honorable and often much better, by consistent effectiveness in battle under difficult conditions and constraints, and by a generosity of spirit that undermined the practiced suspicion.

The enemy made the change in opinion and loyalty happen by behavior that was so bad it cannot be called unprincipled; it was and is founded on &quot;principles&quot; that are perverse and evil.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Embellishment and exaggeration they may be, but they are believed, not just told.  (In this sense they are the opposite of propaganda.)  We did have to create the conditions that allowed the beliefs to change and await the actions of our enemy that made the change happen.</p>
<p>We created the conditions by behavior that was almost always honorable and often much better, by consistent effectiveness in battle under difficult conditions and constraints, and by a generosity of spirit that undermined the practiced suspicion.</p>
<p>The enemy made the change in opinion and loyalty happen by behavior that was so bad it cannot be called unprincipled; it was and is founded on &#8220;principles&#8221; that are perverse and evil.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tatterdemalian		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-44941</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tatterdemalian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/24/why-did-it-take-so-long-to-install-general-petraeus/#comment-44941</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;We were infidels, invaders, occupiers, and—don’t laugh—we wanted to steal their women.&quot;

Like most words, &quot;steal&quot; means something different to Muslims than to non-Muslims. If an infidel man speaks to a Muslim woman, he has not only kidnapped her, but raped her and left her for dead. Embellishment and exaggeration is such an ingrained tradition of Islam that they simply skip over all the intermediate steps and go straight to the logical end point of the gossip, and both the woman you have spoken to and all Muslim men in the vicinity will react accordingly, often in seconds.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We were infidels, invaders, occupiers, and—don’t laugh—we wanted to steal their women.&#8221;</p>
<p>Like most words, &#8220;steal&#8221; means something different to Muslims than to non-Muslims. If an infidel man speaks to a Muslim woman, he has not only kidnapped her, but raped her and left her for dead. Embellishment and exaggeration is such an ingrained tradition of Islam that they simply skip over all the intermediate steps and go straight to the logical end point of the gossip, and both the woman you have spoken to and all Muslim men in the vicinity will react accordingly, often in seconds.</p>
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