As an avid reader of neo, I’ve started to investigate ballet, and I find it beautiful, and I’m simply amazed at the amount of work the dancers put in for their craft. The dancers are amazing.

RE: Tom: “I do not agree with Neo’s claim as to the other arts and sports putting bodies, or parts thereof, through unnatural movements.”
You must not be living with the constant pain from old sports injuries. How lucky for you.

If you’re looking for deformed bodies, see people who’ve started gymnastics as kids and stuck with it seriously for years.

Do you know the difference between deductive and inductive logic? I do.

Russians are naturally vehement, against people they don’t respect. Tatyana may or may not be Russian, but if she is, then what did you expect when you tried to dismiss her arguments as fanciful thinking?

As for me, I’ve already give you plenty of logical arguments that you have brushed aside Tom, and you’ve ignored other good arguments of Tatyana’s or just belittled her arguments as if they don’t matter.

I am after all not proposing that Tom have a specific opinion, because it was Tom that said Neo was wrong. If Neo is wrong, then what makes Tom right? And in the course of this argument, I have come to realize that what makes Tom right is what Tom says makes him right. That is not good enough, Tom, not even for you.

I write as an M.D., with perhaps a bit more structural and functional understanding of the human body. I have not knowingly asserted a conflict between ‘natural’ and achievement.

After having confronted a number of excellent counter-arguments to your jihad against unnatural ballet dancing, the circle the wagons argument you fall back on is “I’m right because I’m who I say I am”. That’s nice, Tom.

Don’t talk about not knowingly asserting a conflict between natural athletics and ballet achievement, Tom, you don’t know how to make an argument, regardless of your medical degree.

When you know about PXE and can explain it, we can perhaps dialogue again.

You somehow thought this was a dialogue, with you the teacher and us the students? Funny, but not a winning argument.

PXE has nothing to do with your ridiculously argumentum ad nauseam method of defending your positions, Tom.

Continue to ignore your grossly exaggerated and inaccurate statements about human capability all you wish. Arguments eventually brings out the true strength of each side’s position. You’ve shown some of your core values, and that’s enough.

In summary, Tom says the human foot isn’t capable of doing what it is capable of. And that what he says is natural is natural because of his degrees. Nice conclusion to your argument, Tom, couldn’t have done it better myself.

I have kids, they love to cavort on their toetips — and fall on the bed while they’re thus cavorting. In order to cavort w/o falling requires training.

You say:
“Uhh, Ymar, the human foot isn’t capable of it. See the shoes.”

Consider rock-climbing:
“Climbing with fingers and toetips is unnatural; and incontrovertably results in more deaths per attempt than any other mass sport. The human fingers and toes aren’t capable of it. See the death rates.”

Yet thousands do, in fact, climb. Probably more than the thousands of 9-14 year girls who first train to go en pointe every year. And more girls go en pointe than boys break bricks with their bare hands, another feat requiring training.

What would be unnatural would be if some metal point would be surgically inserted into the foot so that the point was metal, not human toe. In this respect, taking hormones for weightlifting is “unnatural”, as is, but to a lesser extent, blood doping.

Sumo pigging out, seems not only fairly natural, but not even that abnormal. I’m truly mystified as to how you can assert the falsehood that “the human foot isn’t capable of it”, when the facts clearly show that, with training & true grit, acceptance of foot bloodying pain, the foot IS capable.

The vehemence perhaps comes from what seems intellectual stubborness at refusing to accept as “natural” the limits of what some human bodies can, “naturally” do, with sufficient training & will power. It’s almost insulting to those of us who believe in and celebrate the heros and high achievers who DO follow thru in the difficult achievements. Like those often discussed here.

(I didn’t think I’d comment on this post, but the comment exchange vehemence is indeed interesting.)

BTW, some contortionists- the most contorting- have a genetic disease called PXE for short, that enables their extreme poses.

I do love how you both lecture me! When you know about PXE and can explain it, we can perhaps dialogue again. Do you know any jockeys? I do.

She said (italics are mine) “all sports and many arts…are inherently physical, and they nearly always put the body through movements that are unnatural and stressful for the sake of achievement, or beauty, or both.

You can throw any number of scientifically-sounding terms to me, Tom, and your guess is as good as mine – but I’m positive a grown man can not look like a 12 yo boy without some artificial help, unless he is suffering some hormonal dysfunction or birth defect.

And out of personal experience – all those professional gymnasts are not keeping their prepubescent bodies way into their 30’s naturally. Beside the stringent diet and excruciating exercise.
Speaking of exercise: ever seen contortionists in the circus? Will you tell me their bodies perform naturally, when they go into the “bridge” and then proceed sticking their head between their feet and support their body on the shoulders?
I won’t tell you who you’re listening to nor will I give you an unwanted advice – you seem to be quite self-satisfied and unperturbed in your theories, even in the face of real-life examples; I wouldn’t waste my breath.