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	<title>
	Comments on: The al-Marri case and beyond: what do you do with a suspected terrorist? (Part II)	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://thenewneo.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 03:14:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Cambridge (ON)		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-38101</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cambridge (ON)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 03:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-38101</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;Trek_Aerospace_Dragonfly...&lt;/strong&gt;

Niter North Allis Township, Michigan List of universities in Croatia Jamaican Girl Véƒ½rona Starstreak Clinton morrisson Motor Vehicle Safety Armando Alejandro Estrada Cambridge (ON) ...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Trek_Aerospace_Dragonfly&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Niter North Allis Township, Michigan List of universities in Croatia Jamaican Girl Véƒ½rona Starstreak Clinton morrisson Motor Vehicle Safety Armando Alejandro Estrada Cambridge (ON) &#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bravo Romeo Delta		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36448</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bravo Romeo Delta]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 23:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36448</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[First off, I have to apologize.  I didn&#039;t mean Article 4 - I was thinking of Article 5 of the 4th GC.

In any case, I&#039;ve done some research in passing on the matter a few months back, but am by no means an expert.

The things I&#039;ve been most interested in have to do with the evolution of the Convention and the Laws of Ground Warfare.  Especially with questions regarding intent, redress, retaliation and deterrence.

I had been hoping that perhaps some folks here might be familiar with the concepts in the Convention, and that - maybe - folks might have some insights (that aren&#039;t ten pounds of partisan sniping, wrapped in a five pound sack of pseudo-legalese)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, I have to apologize.  I didn&#8217;t mean Article 4 &#8211; I was thinking of Article 5 of the 4th GC.</p>
<p>In any case, I&#8217;ve done some research in passing on the matter a few months back, but am by no means an expert.</p>
<p>The things I&#8217;ve been most interested in have to do with the evolution of the Convention and the Laws of Ground Warfare.  Especially with questions regarding intent, redress, retaliation and deterrence.</p>
<p>I had been hoping that perhaps some folks here might be familiar with the concepts in the Convention, and that &#8211; maybe &#8211; folks might have some insights (that aren&#8217;t ten pounds of partisan sniping, wrapped in a five pound sack of pseudo-legalese)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lee		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36446</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 22:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36446</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[BRD, you nor I have &quot;read the whole thing&quot;, apparently.  
What did I just say above, Alphie?  Did you read the words that refute, rather than support your own argument?  The very words &quot;you used&quot;.  It seems to me that you are the one ignorant of what Geneva says.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BRD, you nor I have &#8220;read the whole thing&#8221;, apparently.<br />
What did I just say above, Alphie?  Did you read the words that refute, rather than support your own argument?  The very words &#8220;you used&#8221;.  It seems to me that you are the one ignorant of what Geneva says.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bravo Romeo Delta		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36445</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bravo Romeo Delta]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 22:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36445</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Alphie,

I am assuming that you&#039;re familiar, at least in passing, with the provisions of the Geneva Convention and Article 4.  Given your reading on it, what is your take on the distinctions between insurgents, volunteers, and mercenaries.

I&#039;ve been chewing through it a while, and it seems that if one grants reasonable interpretation to those three roles, then the role played by foreign jihadists in Iraq really doesn&#039;t properly fit (or even trend) towards any one of those three categories.

It also does, I suppose beg the question of the interpretation of these strictures when very arguably those we fight aren&#039;t represented by a contracting state.

Any thoughts?

BRD]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alphie,</p>
<p>I am assuming that you&#8217;re familiar, at least in passing, with the provisions of the Geneva Convention and Article 4.  Given your reading on it, what is your take on the distinctions between insurgents, volunteers, and mercenaries.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been chewing through it a while, and it seems that if one grants reasonable interpretation to those three roles, then the role played by foreign jihadists in Iraq really doesn&#8217;t properly fit (or even trend) towards any one of those three categories.</p>
<p>It also does, I suppose beg the question of the interpretation of these strictures when very arguably those we fight aren&#8217;t represented by a contracting state.</p>
<p>Any thoughts?</p>
<p>BRD</p>
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		<title>
		By: alphie		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36441</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[alphie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36441</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Lee,

I just snipped one article from the 4th Geneva Convention.  There are 158 more articles to it.

Read the whole thing before claiming it backs up your Abu Ghraib/Star Chamber idea of justice.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lee,</p>
<p>I just snipped one article from the 4th Geneva Convention.  There are 158 more articles to it.</p>
<p>Read the whole thing before claiming it backs up your Abu Ghraib/Star Chamber idea of justice.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lee		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36440</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36440</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[And you&#039;ll need more than &quot;underinflated balls&quot; and &quot;unscented deodorant&quot; if you are trying to allege &quot;mistreatment&quot;, losers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And you&#8217;ll need more than &#8220;underinflated balls&#8221; and &#8220;unscented deodorant&#8221; if you are trying to allege &#8220;mistreatment&#8221;, losers.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lee		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36439</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36439</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Why do I have to name foreign spies?&quot;

I did.  To demonstrate the difference with which we handle our citizens involved in treason or spying, and those who are not citizens involved in spying.  The former are &quot;citizens&quot; with Constitutional protections; the latter are &quot;illegal combatants&quot; and come under Geneva.
Alphie, since you typed all that above, I&#039;ll assume you actually read it.  It actually supports my argument.  &quot;..such individual person  shall not be entitled to claim such rights and priveleges under the present Convention...&quot;.
&quot;..be regarded as having forfeited rights of communication..&quot;.
Unless &quot;..in case of trial,..&quot;.  So, by your own Convention quotes, we &quot;may&quot; choose to give him a trail, or we &quot;may not&quot;, depending upon &quot;..the security of the State or Occupying Power, as the case may be.&quot;
Don&#039;t you get tired of shooting yourself in the foot, Alphie?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why do I have to name foreign spies?&#8221;</p>
<p>I did.  To demonstrate the difference with which we handle our citizens involved in treason or spying, and those who are not citizens involved in spying.  The former are &#8220;citizens&#8221; with Constitutional protections; the latter are &#8220;illegal combatants&#8221; and come under Geneva.<br />
Alphie, since you typed all that above, I&#8217;ll assume you actually read it.  It actually supports my argument.  &#8220;..such individual person  shall not be entitled to claim such rights and priveleges under the present Convention&#8230;&#8221;.<br />
&#8220;..be regarded as having forfeited rights of communication..&#8221;.<br />
Unless &#8220;..in case of trial,..&#8221;.  So, by your own Convention quotes, we &#8220;may&#8221; choose to give him a trail, or we &#8220;may not&#8221;, depending upon &#8220;..the security of the State or Occupying Power, as the case may be.&#8221;<br />
Don&#8217;t you get tired of shooting yourself in the foot, Alphie?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Next Stop Lauderdale		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36437</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Next Stop Lauderdale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36437</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;without having been caught under battlefield conditions&quot;

Hello, isn&#039;t the United States a battlefield in this war.  What else do they need to admit that.  This type of rulings will simply make the U.S. Battlefield issue more clear.........steve]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;without having been caught under battlefield conditions&#8221;</p>
<p>Hello, isn&#8217;t the United States a battlefield in this war.  What else do they need to admit that.  This type of rulings will simply make the U.S. Battlefield issue more clear&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;steve</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hyman Rosen		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36436</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hyman Rosen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 17:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36436</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Why do I have to name foreign spies? By the nature of espionage, people who attempt it are generally insiders, and so likely to be citizens and residents. Foreigners suspected of spying are usually attached to embassies and such, and are dealt with by being PNGed or exchanged for our own spies.

None of that matters. If the government wants to imprison someone, it must not be permitted to do so without the prisoner having recourse to defense. That&#039;s a bedrock principle of the United States and our way of life.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do I have to name foreign spies? By the nature of espionage, people who attempt it are generally insiders, and so likely to be citizens and residents. Foreigners suspected of spying are usually attached to embassies and such, and are dealt with by being PNGed or exchanged for our own spies.</p>
<p>None of that matters. If the government wants to imprison someone, it must not be permitted to do so without the prisoner having recourse to defense. That&#8217;s a bedrock principle of the United States and our way of life.</p>
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		<title>
		By: The Unknown Blogger		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36435</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Unknown Blogger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/13/the-al-marri-case-and-beyond-what-do-you-do-with-a-suspected-terrorist-part-ii/#comment-36435</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;It’s not a question of whether or not al-Marri is a member of al Qaeda; he is, and does not even allege otherwise.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Neo, is &quot;not alleging otherwise&quot; tantamount to admission of guilty as charged?

Maybe I missed something, but I can only find that al-Marri has denied all charges, and that the only witnesses against him are other detainees.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;It’s not a question of whether or not al-Marri is a member of al Qaeda; he is, and does not even allege otherwise.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Neo, is &#8220;not alleging otherwise&#8221; tantamount to admission of guilty as charged?</p>
<p>Maybe I missed something, but I can only find that al-Marri has denied all charges, and that the only witnesses against him are other detainees.</p>
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